Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What's with the .380 craze of late?

I carried an AMT 380DAO for years, when that was the pocket pistol to have. While slightly less powerful than a .38 snubby, it was easier to conceal. With the advent of the Kahr K9, and especially the MK9, the little AMT was suddenly just an underpowered handful of recoil. There was now no legitimate reason to resort to a .380 - at least in this country.

Relaxed CC laws opened up a vast new market for packable pistols....Enter the Kel-Tec P32 and then the P3AT. In a package that size, the .380 makes sense. If not as a primary carry gun (as some use it), at least as backup. Throw in the fact that the price isn't unattractive and the recoil is considerably less unpleasant than that of the old AMT, and it is easy to see why they - and similar designs - are so popular.

I know quite a few guys who have bought the P3AT. Few of them would call it a "woman's gun". But they all know that it can be carried when nothing else can - and it's a passable tool for SD.

My personal threshold for an acceptable SD pistol is the PF9 - but I don't see anything in the 9mm challenging something like the P3AT for it's niche.

Nothing really wrong with the .380. As someone mentioned, Wild Bill Hickok carried the black powder ballistic equivalent to it, and never seemed to have much trouble putting bad guys down for the count with it. It's just that nowadays you can get a 9mm in a gun that used to be the typical size for a .380 ACP pocket gun. In which case, the only justification in my thinking for carrying a .380 ACP is if for some reason I can only carry a gun the size of the smallest available .380 ACP, i.e., about the size of a Kel-Tec P3AT. Personally, the smallest gun I ever carry is a Colt Detective Special, and much more frequently carry a three inch S&W K-Frame .357 Magnum (loaded with Buff Bore +p .38 Special FBI load).

.380 autos, with good HP ammo have been around for a very long time. They are light, flat and easy to carry. Above all, they are easy to shoot well for those with minimal shooting skills.
That's the only place they have in my mind. A small, light gun for those with minimal shooting skills.
These days I can choose between at least two, totally reliable, 3 inch 1911, .45 ACP's. Far better than any .380 loaded with anything.
Everybody I ever knew who carried one of them seriously, and had to use it seriously, opted for something larger and much more powerful when the "fun" was over. E

+1...

Exactly. It seems really cool to have such a tiny package that's an instrument of self-defense, and I think that's a lot of the real reason so many carry them. If they'd make just a little effort, they'd find that they could carry something more effective just about as comfortably, and just about as concealable.

The problem is that the 38 snub, the 3" 45 that E carries and the Kahr are all bigger, heavier and harder to conceal than the P3AT. They are simply the next step up in size and wieght from the P3AT. When somebody figures out how to put 5,6 or even 7 shots of 38 or 9mm in a 8oz pistol then its a discussion to have.

To be honest, and take it for what its worth, I haven't had a problem putting down livestock with my 380.

Albeit with one notable exception the animals were not actually trying to kill me at the same time, the "cease all other activity" quotient at personal ranges was not substantially different than my dad's 9mm, my old 45, my 44, or my 357.

Properly executed, no pun intended, it stopped the animal just fine.

I may have needed a second shot to ease pain and suffering, but I've had to do it with other guns as well, and I'm likely to extend the same courtesy to any humanoid ne'er-do-well that insists on receiving the initial installment.

Getting off-topic but...there is really no telling what Wild Bill carried. Later, any sixgun became a "Colt" and back in Wild Bill's day, it is likely many referred to just about any revolver as a "Navy". Joseph Rosa, Hickock's most prolific biographer, seems to favor the Navy. The Navy is certainly the most simple explanation to many of Hickock's gunfights. Many authors credit Hickock's second famous gun battle, as having occurred with a Navy. This was the killing of Dave Tutt, by Hickock, in the square of Springfield, Missouri, credited to the Colt Dragoon, by witnesses though. Hickock supposedly had a Smith and Wesson .32 tip-up (I forget the exact model number) on his corpse when he was killed by Jack McCall in Deadwood. Supposedly he had a 2nd model American (Russian caliber) in his rooms when they were cleaned out, along with his famous Springfield "needle gun". Then again, Keith Carradine carried twin Navy conversions in the Deadwood TV series. Jeff Bridges carried the regular Navies in the specified sash, IIRC, in the movie Wild Bill. Both were directed by Walter Hill, who usually has fair research into weapons in his projects. Who knows?

I view it as the opposite - a small, light gun for those with good shooting skills.

The deal with the Keltec or Ruger is, its actually is a pocket pistol a person can carry any time, any where without it being a problem of any type. My point of view is its a WHOLE LOT BETTER THAN NOTHING, should the need arise.

I've never found even the 5 inch 1911's to be tough to conceal. That's because they are flat. They do weigh more and that can be a bother. In fact, I've found the 1911's carried IWB w/o a holster easier to conceal than any of the 2 inch revolvers.
For the record, I don't carry a 3 inch 1911. I might consider a 4 inch 1911 w/ an alloy frame, but haven't yet. E

Recap my tests in soaked newspaper using "self-defense" ammo in the .380-auto at a distance of 6 feet.

Pistols used were Sig Sauer, Ruger, Kel-Tec in calibers .380-auto and 9mm Luger.

Penetration of .380-auto using cor-bon ammo was 3 inches! Kinetic energy is 190-lbs.

Penetration of 9mm Luger using same brand of ammo was almost 6 inches. Kinetic energy is 483-lbs.

Now having to shoot a carjacker or mugger, who weighs over 200 pounds with a leather jacket on might not get the job done with a .380-auto. Just something to think about gents!

How deep is the heart, lungs, or brain? What do you want to shoot on a human being and at what "depths"? I'm really wondering. I know a wet phone book isn't a human being, but if you are shooting a human being at six feet, what do you need in penetration and kinetic energy? At what point is enough enough, and is that point a 9mm, but not a .380? If someone was car jacking you, how many rounds at six feet would you put in them from your .380 or 9mm and would it change the outcome of the fight to have put 5 - 10 rounds of either one? Again, I'm just wondering out loud.

By the way, I'd be using a 45-70 in a car jacking situation, because I don't think they make a handgun that's got the "oomph" needed

I agree, and if you cannot carry anything else under your particular circumstances, it's much better than nothing.

I dunno, Hawk. E might have a point if he were talking about all the dead .380 users he knew as opposed to those that lived to fight another day.

Not even Kel-tec's PF9 comes close to the size the P3AT is. It's 7 shots at hand in literally nearly any outfit. The P3AT is smaller than most any .22LR pistol around. It's an amazingly compact reasonably powerful response to minimal clothing CCW or as general BU duty. They aren't "girl" guns or starter guns for newbies. They are light and recoil strongly due to their weight. They are a whole different animal compared to the 13 shot Bersa type pistols that weigh 3 sometime 4 times what the P3AT types do.

A snubby .38 running std loads isn't all that much more powerful is harder to conceal and heavier. Running +P type loads makes the .38's problematic to shoot well for all but the better skilled shooters. Even at that they are inferior to 9x19's. Which are inferior to .40's which are available in the same size guns.

I run a Kahr CW40 95% of the time. Still there are times a PF9 or the P3AT gets the nod and I am happy to have them when the need/desire arises. CCW is about choices and compromises and the .380 has a place in those. It's not the best choice for cold weather heavy clothing scenarios but it shines when it's 105 and humid.

Got to love all the "experts". How many of you 380 nay-sayers are willing to take a round out of one? Hell if I could conceal it I would carry my 454 Casull. Cause a 45 ACP just ain't enuf!

Very good post. I've been thinking about one of the Kel Tec 9's. The only problem I see with the Kel Tec is no +P capability and I dearly like +P or +P+ in the 9. I may have to get one of the .380's.

I've got to admit that I don't fully understand the .380 craze either. As a kid, I acquired a worn out Remington 51 that I dearly loved for the way it handled. It's so wore out, it can't make it through a whole clip without jamming, but it is/was fun to shoot and has taken a few rabbits. I really didn't think much about .380s until the Ruger LCP came out and bought one. My wife took one look at it and declared it hers and I had to buy another. We have had a lot of fun shooting them; they conceal nicely, and even as small as they are, fit well in my big hands. Now that Ruger is coming out with the Raspberry colored LCP, I have been told I will soon have another one. Probably have to buy a Raspberry purse or shoes to go with it too. I also have Ruger LCR which is neat, but just doesn�t fit my big hands as well and I must admit, I have not practiced enough with it, for the double action only to feel natural. Anytime I feel I would be under gunned packing the LCP, I just slip a Glock 39 .45 GAP in my waistband. The Glock isn�t much fun to shoot, but very effective.

How would you like to stand there while I pump you full of .177 caliber lead pellets from a CO2 powered handgun? Just because you wouldn't want to do that doesn't make a .177 caliber CO2 powered handgun a good choice for self-defense. That said, I see a certain limited role for a gun like a P3AT.