Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Side-by-side shotguns ?

Very nice pics and shotgun. Looks like you had a great hunt.

Wouldn't mind doing that myself someday. Beautiful scenery.

Thanks.

CZ makes a shotgun with exposed hammers, if I'm remembering correctly. I don't know much about them though, made in Turkey.

My go to shotgun since I bought it new in 1976 is an Ithaca-SKB 100 in 20ga. This gun is hunted in fall and winter. It came with mod and full chokes. I had the full opened to imp.cyl. I recommend this gun highly.
pak

Here Tom, I don't know if this is what you meant, maybe?



It's a CZ http://cz-usa.com/products/view/hammer-classic/

First of all, it is what fits you, and what fits your shooting style, on the intended game. There is no single perfect fixed-choke SxS or over/under shotgun. If you are not an accomplished SxS shot, you should take lessons from a master, and attend some of the SxS shoots in New York and North Carolina to see a lot of guns and get to try a lot of guns.

None of them are investments, unless they are very high grade, in excellent conditions, and you don't hunt with them.

All of them should hold their value against inflation, if you take care of them.

Connecticut RBL
* Fabulous gun. Try to buy it used, which will probably still be in 98% condition.

Beretta 471 Silverhawk
* The 470 or 471 is a really nice shotgun.
The 12 gauge balances better than the 20 gauge for me.
Don't own one, but probably will before the year is out.

CZ Bobwhite or Ringneck
* Not in the class of the CV or 470, but a terrific value, just like the Ruger O/U Red Labels.

Winchester Model 21
* I own one 12 gauge, really nice, that I bought for $2,500 a few years ago. You need to shop a lot, learn the value of the different grades, so you can recognize a bargain when you see it, because it won't be there very long.

Winchester Model 23
* Some are very nice, but the prices have gotten out of hand.
For that money, you can buy a used Aya, Garbi, or Merkel, which are a lot more shotgun.

Browning BSS
* Very strong, businesslike, yeoman workhorse.
20s go for a premium.

SKB
* Some look nicer than others. There are a lot of grades, and SKB owners trade up, so find an SKB dealer and tell him what you want in a used one.

Parker
* Like my Win 21, I have one, for $2,500. You need to shop a lot and learn the values of the models and grades.

L C Smith
* Nice, but the Marlins built in the early 1970s were just as nice. Buy one of those and save a ton of money.

Fox
* Grew up shooting Fox 16s and 20s on quail. Wide variation of grades, quality, and how shot out they are. In 2005, I sold a restored AH in 16 gauge that was nicer than anything I have ever seen, live or in a magazine, for $1,500. Should have kept it.

Lefever
* I shoot a 12 gauge Lefever sidelock on quail. Before the lead shot ban, this and a 32-inch Ithaca 3-inch F/F magnum were my waterfowl guns. Now I shoot 2.5 inch Westley Richards in it mostly over tightly held quail in January and February. When they get up further and faster in November, I shot a 28-gauge over under Browning 26 in SK/SK.

The modern side by sides are very good, and with chrome lined bores, back boring and screw in chokes, they will shoot steel, bismuth and tungsten shot. Many of them have much thicker barrels than the old Lefevers and Foxes.

Look for an AyA or Arrieta, or Garbi.
The Ugartechea in a box lock is a bargain.
Uga made the Parker Hale, so look for one of those used.

I have also owned a pair of AyA 30s. Great guns.
Also shoot a Churchill 25. Superb gun.

This brings up the bargain English guns, like the Cogswell & Harrison, Webley & Scott, etc. If you are thinking of mostly shooting upland game, where you don't need a big load anyway, the 2.5 inch guns can be had at a deep discount. Still, $2,500 for a cheap English shotgun, would still buy a nicer and much newer AyA.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/aya1.htm

You have to know what fits you before you go buying some older gun sight unseen. But if you do know, there is a lot out there, like the higher end Charles Daly's, older J.P. Sauer, Darne, etc.

There are a lot of overpriced used guns out there, but you should be able to find a really nice piece for $2,500.00.

It also depends on where you hunt, how cold it is, the coats and gloves you will be wearing. For example, late season, early morning pheasant or quail, or ducks, temperature in the 20s, I am going to be wearing a canvas coat over a sweater, and shooting gloves. I want a slimmer grip and double triggers, slick butt, shorter length of pull.

I agree with Lee, look at AyA. If it were me, and I had the money, it'd probably be a pair of AyA sxs. Any of the Spanish/Basque best guns do it for me.

fwiw,
Winchester 21s (Heavy Duck 32" F/F with Heavy Shot for Geese/Ducks on the Shore. 26" WS1/WS2 for skeet. Have yet to pull the trigger, however, my future is small frame CSM 21 with 28" 28 gauge tubes solely for quail over dogs. Fitted of course. I avoid action/barrel scratches, or engraving, as I find the lines of a 21 field grades very clean. Strong, strong receiver....

Ansley H Fox or CSM Foxes for Upland Pursuits. The Sterlingworths are to my eye and hand over heavy and clunky. That said I am sweet on 21s and they are anything but light. That said I shoot mine alot, relatively, and it's never needed to have one rejointed. Alot is relatively little for circuit shooter making a living with a Krieghoff K80(also owned 2) but significant to most any field O/U shooter.

Did the above poster actually mean an SKB 385 and 485 rather than 386 and 486? I have a 385 28 that is a fine little shotgun. It only trails my SKB 785 O/U 28 guage on brilliant shots afield(luck of course).

Regards, Matt Garrett
757-581-6270

Btw,
The one thing I have learned is NEVER buy a good shotgun through the mail. Find a dealer with an extensive inventory, will allow you to shoot a used gun, and make the trip. I'm fond of Phillip Percival at Mid-south in Wagram, NC and CSM in CT. Look for a FAIR deal instead of a STEAL unless you are an expert. I've found the first attainable and the second around every corner. Granted who gets robbed tends to vary...

Regards, Matt.

Hammer1, you don't say what part of the country you are in.
If you tell the region, a lot of people here could recommend some reputable local dealers with good inventories of new and used shotguns. As Matt said, if you are asking these questions, you need to be handling and shooting some guns, and probably need someone who really knows them to be going with you. Seek out a local group of SxS owners and shoot with them.

I suspect Hammer1's query is rhetorical and meant to initiate conversation.

He's handled more firepower than I'll ever know.

I've seen the pics of his reloading room.




(Although I do have the last 220 Swift barrel ever )

Matt, I see you like the Wagram store. I have been there several times with some skeet shooting friends of mine and could easily spend my entire life savings there. They have the largest selection of doubles I have seen in a while. One particular A.H. Fox 20 gauge sang to me, but I did not have the coin. I did walk away with a nice M70 that I had been trying to find for a while.

Notropis,
Mid-South is a Wonderland is it not? I went to pick up some birds more than a few years back and the old gent recommended a stop at Mid-South. I foolishly assumed it would a typical gunshop and not Shangra-La. The only danger in Wagram is going too fast and blowing through town as you well know. While his store front is narrow that shop opens up to showcase amazing things most will never see except in a book or behind glass. That Phillip is a fellow gentleman farmer simply ices the cake... We can complain about John Deere Parts at the same time one may evaluate something spectacular... Love that store. Only danger is driving by it or would the true danger being to find it?....(grin)

Regards, Matt.

At the shop in Goshen, CT they had a Noble SXS 12ga with a decent look to it. It had a pad but the LOP was right. The wood on the stock was attractive and the action seemed tight and had light 'engraving' on it.

I never had a 'Noble' gun so perhaps they are not good however this made in Spain double was not bad at all for the $350 or so price.

So many guns, I love it.

I got a Noble 12 gauge for Christmas when I was 11. It is one of the three guns I have ever sold. I feel sorry for the person who has it now. I hope he threw in in a river somewhere. I had an unexpected discharge when I released the safety while dove hunting. No, my fingers were not on the trigger or even in the trigger guard , and I had not been messing with them. It doubled on me several times. No, I did not have a finger on each trigger. All the finish started coming off after a year. It was very rough on the inside. (I saw inside when a gunsmith took it apart to check the safely. I did not take it apart myself.) There was something between the ribs that would trickle up and down when you raised and lowered the barrels. All in all, it was a most unsatisfactory shotgun. I traded it for some G&H shell goose decoys that I still use. If you did not get it, I think you can find something much better. If you did get it, I hope your shotgun turns out better than mine did. They may have improved a lot in 47 years.

Notropis,

Thanks for the 'Noble' information.

No I did not buy that gun. My 'double' need is flush for the moment with the last two SXS 20's that I got.

For the purposes of shooting clay targets and upland game, which is a better way to go ?


Modern side-by-side, e.g., Beretta 471 Silverhawk or Connecticut RBL 16

or

Vintage side-by-side, e.g., Parker or L. C. Smith ?


.

Whatever you can hit with.

.





Since we typically won't know that without buying the shotgun and trying it over a period of weeks on a variety of targets in a variety of conditions with a variety of shells...

Guess we now have your official blessing to buy one of each of all vintage and modern side-by-side shotguns with examples in all gauges, chokes, and stock configurations to test to see which one we shoot with best.

If our wives have any questions can we give them your phone number and email address ?




.

I've already used, "Because Hammer said so" to justify numerous reloading purchases.




without success....

Yup, you got it.

Though I am married to a woman who goes through the same experiments, and owns around 15 shotguns herself. This means she is a LOT more tolerant than many wives--especially since we each have separate bank accounts for our gun purchases.

After a lot of experience most of us can indeed guess what shotguns will work for us, but it does take a lot of shells to find out which shotguns we can really hit with. And that's the base-line, even if we're Bob Brister. (I knew him quite well, and shot a lot with him quite bit, on both clays and birds.)