Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 45-70 bullets for black bears

Not sure I understand what you're saying with the last line?? Barnes #4 lists the 1895 loads as 42,000; Nosler lists 45-70 'Strong Actions' at 35,000. I think Speer does the same...albeit Speer has changed over time... The 28,000 is identified with Trapdoor Springfields... While most factory ammo is 28,000, I think certain manufacturers offer high-power loads for the Marlin (Buffalo?).

The first Speer book I bought (circa 1980) listed a 56gr charge of H322 for 1950fps with the 400gr bullet. The last couple of books now list it at 49gr max - not sure what's up with that...that's a substantial change in max!!!??? I've shot dozens (if not a couple of hundred) rounds of the 56gr loads (they do chronograph at mid-1900s!) and still have 20 or so old loads....

I haven't reloaded any more of that charge...not sure if the powder changed or Speer just measured them more accurately and found them over-pressure...they are certainly stout!!

Hard works better when driven to 1600-1800 fps. For black powder velocities, I agree that soft is better. For higher velocity loads, I'll stick with "hard" cast.

Take it to the bank and call the Speer Tech crew. The 400gr .458 Speer has an 1800 fps performance ceiling. Witness the new
reduced reloading data from them and lack of total penetration reported in various posts in this thread. Too velocity for the bullets construction.
THE 350gr 458 SPEER IS DESIGNED AS THE EXPRESS BULLET FOR THE LOTT AND 458 WIN MAG and can do 2500 fps as a performance ceiling. The 350gr Hornady RN is not quite up to this performance but comes close.

IMO boring a 1" hole through an animal isnt the best way to kill them ASAP.
a
A 300gr Nosler a 250gr TSX will break all the bone you want.

300 grain Nosler into wet news print 24.5"


250 grain Barnes XFN 13"


.475 Linebaugh 350 cast.26"


300 grain Hornady.9.5"


.475 Linebaugh 420 cast.30"




Jayco

I've shot a few black bear with a 30-06' 150 gr Speer Mag Tip running about 2850. I don't see why any bullet out of a 45-70 won't due for black bear I don't know how far away you shoot at them or how big they are in Tennessee but I have yet to need a shot over 75 yards and not a single one has been under 350 lbs dressed. Point being, even a 300 gr hollow point, Speer or Sierra should be sufficient. I would put it through the shoulders like I have every time with my 06'. They don't go far if at all. No, black bear aren't armor plated but a 45-70 with any bullet is no wimp. And I've seen black bear in my neck of the woods run from 150 lbs up and over 600 lbs and wouldn't feel undergunned running a 300gr out of my 45-70 when lining up on a 600 pounder.

I shoot the 400 Speer, matter of fact its the only bullet I've ever shot in my rifle. I've killed some deer, bears, and pigs, all with good results. My load is a hair above 1600 fps, a little light.

In the last year I've been wanting to use some cast bullets of some sort but just haven't got around to it. I bought all the stuff and its just sat there. I always wanted to try some of the LBT WFGC bullets. The few guys I know that shoot 45-70 cast say that they are "The" cast to use. Now I'm hearing LBT went out. Surely someone bought them or they have a new name. Anyone know???

Joseph

jayco - interesting.

I talked with Hornady yesterday about the 350 flat point. They designed it for the 350 Marlin with velocities above 1900. From the load data I've assmebled it appears 1900 is a walk in the park for the 45-70 in an 1895 Marlin. 2200 appears to be possible from the data I've gathered.

Hornady info sux.The 350 FP was designed for the 450 Marlin but there velocity in the Guide Gun was under 2100 fps.The 350 Flat Point opens up alot lower than that but the 350 RN doesn't open to about 1600 fps as is the case with the 350 Speer.

As far as data goes,check these loads out.Joe's loads are cut off at 38,000 PSI with a few 40,000 PSI thrown in..Some awesome velocities not at MAX.

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm

Jayco

These look pretty HOT compared to all loads I've seen in popular loading manuals!

Quote from the link:
"These are maximum loads in my firearms and may easily be excessive in others."

Just sayin'....

The reloading manuals differ big time on the 45-70.For instance Speer list Ruger #1 loads at 35,000 PSI or used to while Hodgdons loads are a solid 40,000 CUP.One must remember the 45-70 is still a SAAMI 28,000 cartridge period.

As far as the loads and the link at Real Guns,Joe pressure checks all his loads with a strain system and this is his quote on his loads.



Jayco

I always wanted to try some of the LBT WFGC bullets. The few guys I know that shoot 45-70 cast say that they are "The" cast to use. Now I'm hearing LBT went out. Surely someone bought them or they have a new name. Anyone know???

try LBT's web site...lbtmoulds.com

A quick question - where are you guys finding 300 gr 0.458 bullets? Are they pistol bullets?

No, they are not pistol bullets, they generally go .451". Some brands are carried locally, but I have found that to get what I want(Speer Unicore), I usually have to mail-order, and I usually use Midway.

Me too - Midway doesn't list a 300 gr Nosler in 0.458.

No Sir..There 458 in diameter.Nosler quit making the 300 grain Partition and are coming out with a 300 grain Ballistic Tip.(Yuck) but Speer makes a 300 grain Unicore used in the Federal line of 45-70 and labeled wrong as a Hot Core but available as a component.Barnes makes a 300 grain TSX for the 45-70 as well as Hornady and Sierra a 300 grain and Hawk(I believe) makes one.

The TSX and Speer Unicore are by far the best now offered in my opinion.The 300 grain Speer Unicore is the best bang for the buck in the 45-70.

Jayco

IN regards to some posters wanting a penetration at all costs bullet, I am thinking if I were in their shoes I would look hard at the Barnes Buster. Could run em harder than cast bullets and not have to deal with lead fouling.
Of course I am of the opinion that using such a bullet on most game is counterproductive.....

BTW The 300 gr Hornady and Sierra are hell on deer when ran to 2400fps using Hodgdon data for the 300gr Sierra and H4198 powder(59grs if I remember right).

I believe it was 60 grains, but I don't know if I would want to run that. I run 55 now, and it certainly feels like enough!!

The Barnes Buster bullet is designed for the hunter who would like to try CAST loads but is deterred by the lead projectile and its detriments. It it for the guy that would bust a buffalo with his 500 S&W or .45/70, but now he can use a Bone Buster bullet instead of the cast bullets and not worry about leading, gas checks, or powder/accuracy issues. The Buster's also can be loaded to the maximum velocity potential of the cartridge.

I too have used the Nosler 300 gr. for Blackbear. I loaded it to 2100fps and it passed through both shoulders and out of a 400 lb boar.I don't know about a blood trail because he only made one jump.
I shot out to 200 yards all summer before I left for Alaska and after I returned I ended up watching a corn field for a deer the last day of the season. In the last 10 min I had a large doe at 242 lazered yds and shot her through the top of the heart. That would of been hard with a 400 gr bullet.
I have saved the fifty remaining Noslers for Elk,Moose and Bear hunts and have gone to the 300gr Speer unicore for deer.
The 45/90 was a respected cartrige with 300 gr. lead and I feel a 45/70 does very well with a controled expansion jacketed.