Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR vs. Mini 14 question

Man..,

If your response is directed to me please allow a reply. I've never spent anything,other than a red dot and mounts, to get my AR's to shoot 1 1/2" groups. Early on, a friend thought he could come up with bargain basement shooters by having 2 Mini 14's rebarreled by some outfit in Texas. God knows what he spent but , when they functioned, he got 4 to 6 inch groups. Worse than would be expected from a wallyworld .22 rimfire. He offered to trade me both Mini's for my box stock Colt AR with it's red dot scope. I declined.

Thru the years I've had a number of various Ruger products. Only one, a 6mm #1, inpressed me with it's accuracy. I HAVE spent hundreds of dollars to get a #3 to shoot accurately. Ruger did a complete rebuild on my single six and I just spent $70 to get a .30 Carbine Blackhawk PROPERLY RECHAMBERED.

I've seen numerous Mini 14's and Ar's fired at my range. Hands down, the average out of the box AR outshoots the average Mini by a factor of 100. If I am blinded by anything it's how Ruger has a loyal following and how they've stayed in business.

I can afford most things within reason. Currently, I am building 2 AR's for my grandsons. I am not blinded to the merits of anything, conversely I seek them out. Mini's were never considered. This is just my experience. Yours may vary.

O

Yes, a mini-30 is what I was talking about as I thought it was reasonable to compare guns that fired the same caliber when comparing platforms. I certainly don't feel my sample of maybe seven mini-30s is the end of the discussion but the fact that all of them shot poorly established at least a trend from my point of view! The Mini-14s shoot better than the 30s I think because a .223 (when bullet weight is properly matched to twist)seems to be one of those "inherently accurate" cartridges we talk about. If you have discovered a method for tightening a Mini-30s group PLEASE share it with me and I will indeed be in your debt.

Pecos

We do cling to our guns and religion don't we... LOL

As I've said before, the first Mini 14 I owned hit nearly everything I pointed it at. Then I made the mistake of scoping it and patterning it, not pretty. Bought at least 5 others through the years until I bought my first AR. Wouldn't throw down a mini 14 in a have to situation but it wouldn't be my first pick either.

Shootinurse, UHHH.... this thread has degenerated into a how many Angels can dance on the head of a pin deal and I feel I may be a part of the reason. Mini-14s are safe, well built rifles that have been around for years. If you like the way they look and feel, DO NOT LET ME talk you out of buying the rifle you really want! Then put it in a HOGUE Overmoulded stock and it will feel so good you will have a hard time putting back in the safe at night. Ruger even makes a target version with a B.O.S.S. barrel device. Is it easier to make an AR shoot under an inch? Yeah, but is that what you are buying it for? If it is get Mini with the B.O.S.S. device.

It is not like this is the last rifle you will ever buy. In the end you will end up with at least one of each as such is the nature of our hobby. If you doubt that, just go back and read this thread and see how many of us admit to the pain/joy of having Minis AND ARs. The only way to correctly deal with this addiction is to buy the gun you really want or you will not be satisfied with what you buy. Ask me how I know...

Pecos

PS Please don't mistake my earlier post as a endorsement of the AK platform. I hate the darned things for a number of reasons. If, God forbid, I ever have the misfortune to be in a gun fight, I pray that I have an AR and the other guy has an AK. For what it is worth, my twenty-one year old son is a deployed Marine and he agrees with me.

Thanks, Pecos. It's all part of the shooting game, that we have our own ideas, and experiences to back them up. I've been confused more than once, and stymied a couple times, but I haven't let it hold me back. Slows me down some, but that has worked out well for me over the years. It's entertaining as well.

(Also, I don't expect a light 16" barrelled Sportical will shoot sub-moa.)

y'all think this is a good argument.... go to southern airboats where I hang out a lot and ask if an aircraft boat or a car motor boat is better!!!!

I don't own either rifle in this topic- never have. (I did carry one for about three years back in the 70's).

However, when a question like this is posted on a forum titled "AR15 Rifles".... well it is kinda like dangling red meat in front of some hungry dogs.

I do enjoy a good debate about rifles tho,
Gary

(Also, I don't expect a light 16" barrelled Sportical will shoot sub-moa.)[/quote]

Don't make that statement too quickly! Tell us what twist you are dealing with (1 in 7 I hope) and let us give you some loads for SMKs. Then scrub the barrel to bare metal, shoot a couple of fouling shots, mount your best scope on the gun and maybe add a JP trigger. Shoot off a solid rest and report back to us.

Pecos

There is really no other place to post the question on the 'fire. There is no forum for these types of rifles.
We talk about AKs, Minis, M1A, Garands...................

The one issue that has not been touched with this discussion, is the purpose for which the rifle will be used, and it's suitability for that purpose.

Most here do one of two things, or perhaps both things, with their AR rifles.
Punch paper, and shoot coyotes & other furry things.

Not often is the third purpose, which is a rifle suitable for social work.
If your goal is a reliable weapon that is minute of bad guy accurate at CQB, and out to 200 yards, then the Mini works well.
Frankly I don't care much for paper punching.

This is neither here nor there but as of late the "retro" tv channel has been running old "A Team" shows. Those dudes used Mini-14's quite a bit, and on full-auto, at that. Then again, they didn't seem very good about actually hitting the bad guys...

But what's the story on the full-auto versions? Did Ruger develop them in hopes of getting a military contract? Or is it just Hollywood fiction?

It's called a Ruger AC-556. Yes it's a real gun.

Terry

Ah, thanks. Ruger must have been trying to win military contracts, I suspect. It's a shame it didn't gel; they seem like they would be halfway decent rifles at a good price. Maybe closer to an AK than an AR in functionality but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

A full auto "Mini-14" was indeed made by Ruger and was identified as the model AC556. Many were sold to Latin American militaries and many MANY foreign and domestic PDs also obtained them. I have seen photos, long before the days of "PhotoShop", depicting so called "sterile" examples w/o serial numbers that were allegedly made for alphabet government agencies which then distributed same to "freedom fighters" who agreed with American policies.

There are several examples in the Class Three registry and are transferable to qualified individuals. They are REALLY fun to shoot but like all MGs get hot FAST. My recollection is that they were PARTICULARLY susceptible to "cookoffs" where the chamber gets so hot a round ignites in the chamber w/o the necessity of a firing pin hitting the primer.

Pecos

I actually can't use it in Pa. for hunting. Semi-autos have been a no-no for longer than the 44yrs. I've been hunting. Basically a plinking, just-in-case, pissed-about-the-election, and concerned-about-the-future purchase. And it's a 1:9 twist.

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/archive/index.php/f-106.html

The perfect union fellows are gracious as can be and true believers in the mini-14.

Bottom line in my mind though is this; the thing needs a heftier barrel and properly machined gas block to go with it. But then you are back to square one with magazines. Its just a losing proposition for the long haul in my opinion.

If Ruger had any brains they would just chunk a better barrel in it,(and proper gas block) skip the pimped out thumbhole stock and sell em for 200 bucks below an average AR-15. If they reworked the action somehow to accept AR-15 mags all the better. I'd buy one!

IMHO, Mini's feel GREAT in the hands. I really like that about them. The one I had shot poorly, especially once hot. It was reliable though. Since you guys are talking AC556's I had a few factory 20's marked for those... forget the details, but I remember they were easy to sell for big bucks when I sold the rifle!

AR's are a far superior rifle IMHO. I've had a few AR15's and a DPMS LR308. All were very accurate. My big DPMS would routinely put TEN shots sub-moa! Couldn't believe it; in fact it kind of pissed me off, because I work HARD to get my bolt guns to do that, and here this big ugly beast does it box-stock... my current AR, a Bushy in M4 pattern, easily holds 1.5" at 100 yards.

I still want another mini someday. You guys mention mags as a negative for them; isn't Rugrr selling 20's to civvies now?

Yes, Ruger sells 20 rnd mags to the public and are now offering factory 30 rounders again.

DixieFreedomz, the mini-14 now comes with a heavier barrel on the standard model. They also sell a heavy barreled model. The gas block tolerences are supposed to be better now they have re-tooled the line.

One thing you can do to help accuracy is check and adjust the torque settings on the gas block.

Terry

sometimes I get to thinking we have lost our way with the AR's, the first one I had an SP-1 pencil barrel, LW perfect for the .223 cartridge. Now many tote 9 pound guns with 16.5 inch barrels, and more gizmo's than a cadillac escalade. The new mini's have got me thinking as they always shouldered and pointed faster for me.

The AR platform definitely deserves a really good light barrel. And that could be done. Turning a heavy one down doesn't always work for accuracy though if done correctly usually will.

I know we turned a barrel way down once, for a Jr rifle and it worked fine. But was an MOA or over tube to start with and remained so, a pull off of a colt Hbar IIRC.

A nice short 16-20 thin barrel, plain AL or fiber float tube, but with maybe a mini rail for those that just have to, but not a quad rail... and a flat top with riser, and just a good solid light buttstock..... That gun should be light and easily capable of something like .75 moa pretty easy.

Still wish John would commit to a run of thin barrels...

I could see a 16 with a scope on it above my visor in the truck forever.....

Jeff, I just threw the Leupold 1.5-5 CD in the Talbot QD mount (heavy) on my pencil barrel gun and total weight with gun/scope and a 20 rounder loaded was right at 7lbs. I'm sure this will be less once the LaRue mount gets here but the Talbot was all I had handy at the moment.
I am thinking this is going to be about as light as I can get it, I thought about the Ace stock and a carbon fiber handguard but I don't think there would be any weight savings.

By all means, keep at John about doing a run of pencil barrels, he just did not seem real enthused when he and I spoke about this, his concern was above all "accuracy" and I understand his feeling sthere.