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Wow. You sound just like Senator Hanoi John.

When I first heard of this "murder of the insurgent", I was furious. No way would or should our soldiers do that. That was until I realized I had heard the liberal media version.

Then I heard the rest of the story about the booby trapped bodies, etc. That changes everything.

I'd be extremely hesitant to call this Marine a "war criminal" as the liberal media are doing. They don't have a clue.

The guy more than likely had been 2 days without sleep, and had to make a split second decision under extreme stress. It was not a pre-meditated act. As was obvious by his words and tone of voice, he believed the terrorist to be "faking" death and to be a threat. He removed the threat.

I'll not shed any tears over a terrorist taking a 5.56 to the back of his mellon, mistake or not.

If this Marine is ever convicted, I hope Bush does not forget this when he leaves office, and pardons the man.

And as to the training they receive, our military, specifically our Marines and our Army Infantry, are the best trained in the world in urban warfare, or "MOUT" as we called it in the Army (Military Operations in Urban Terrain). Make no mistake about it, these guys are absolutely trained professionals, and are good at what they do, which is the most dangerous form of combat there is.

Mistakes will happen. I'd rather have our soldiers and marines err on the side of putting a terrorist in a body bag, rather than coming home in a body bag themselves. But I don't suspect you share my view now, do you? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I signed the petition, and remarked,"We are in a war not a soap opera."


One more thing,
As Rush L. commented today on the radio, these terrorists are NOT covered by the Geneva Convention, it applies to uniformed troops of a State, which these guys clearly are not.

Another one more thing,
IF they wanted to, the battles could be fought in specific areas, and thereby keep the civilians in the clear...no, the terrorists hide amongst the civilians...it is this action that gets the civies killed, in my book we should just clearly anounce to the civies that we'll be killing everything within 1000 yards of every terrorist, and 5 minutes later do it.

Barak;
I've read some of your posts which made good points, BUT...
This deal is either for or against, after your last comment, you are clearly not for, It would please me to hear that you got the next bullet.

And let me add that I think the use of the term "prisoners" may be inappropriate. These guys had been wounded/killed by the first patrol, and left behind. Nowhere is mention that they had been bound, or otherwise secured from hostile action against the next GI's to come along.

If not secured, then, for all intents and purposes, they were still enemy that Patrol #2 had to deal with. From the conversation, it seems Patrol 2 thought they were dealing with a previously secured room containing only dead. A supposedly dead enemy "faking it" is obviously a potentially dangerous enemy that must be immediately neutralized.

It took far longer to type this than the soldier had time to analyze it- i.e. he fell back on training. Which is what training is for- to keep you alive when you don't have time to think.

Hmm. Are you sure you're remembering that post correctly? First, the guy only rammed me once. (He did try several other times, but I managed to elude him, handicapped as he (probably) was by drugs and/or alcohol.) Second, I didn't do a thing to him other than stay away from him until he (they, actually) gave up and turned off.

What's the hypocrisy you're alluding to here?


As I said, the lay of the land around here is pretty evident. I don't expect anyone to agree with me. But when we start seeing video of US Marines releasing Iraqi prisoners, giving them a fifteen-second start, and then using them for target practice...or captured Iraqi women being hired out as sex slaves...or some other mind-blowing atrocity, born of the boredom and low morale that comes to crack troops on garrison duty in a foreign culture, combined with the we're-good-they're-evil mindset that is necessary to salve the conscience against the obviously horrible things their commanders are ordering them to do...when stuff like that starts happening, I want to be able to say, "You heard it here first."

That we're-good-they're-evil mindset is already beginning to show itself in you. You're referring to militiamen--in some cases uniformed militiamen--engaged in guerrilla warfare on their own territory against an oppressive invading foreign military force, as "terrorists."

Terrorists are people who kill innocent non-combatants in order to make a political statement.

Have you seen any of the pictures coming out of Fallujah of maimed and blown-apart women, children, and babies, victims of American bombs and missiles?


I have no more interest or confidence in what is shown by the Arab mass media than I do in what is shown by the American mass media. I haven't watched a news program--of any stripe--except by accident since Clinton took office.

Still, I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that wounded enemy soldiers who pose no threat deserve to be killed because of what al-Jazeera broadcasts?

If anyone let's this soldier down because of a 30 second NBC news tape, ignoring the previous 2 day battle he..and his comrades went thru to secure those buildings, will only start an epidemic that will have negative effects to all the soldiers that are under orders to fight in this war!
Did those people at NBC expect the soldier to walk over to the terrorist an offer him a Cuban cigar...
This soldier did his job to the best of his ability and he and his comrades are still alive because of his instantaneous decision!
If anyone thinks those soldiers jobs are easy....walk in their boots for 16 months!

That's all.

I've heard this several times, but I haven't understood it. Are you implying that the enemy soldier was pulling out something that might have been a grenade or a gun and the shooter couldn't wait to see what it was before defending himself? I didn't see any haste in either of the videos. There was an Iraqi soldier lying still, quietly bleeding; there was an American soldier observing, making no move to dodge or take cover or warn comrades; then the American soldier deliberately shoulders his weapon, aims, and fires a shot.

What's the time constraint to which you refer? (I don't hope to agree with you, merely to understand you.)

Hey, Michael Moore clone, there's plenty of room available in Canada.



Militia Men? Are you focking joking? Lemme guess, you think Arafat was the father of modern day "militia", right?



Well, at least we know why you're so well informed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />



Have you seen the pictures and videos coming out of Iraq of beheadings of civilians by your "militia"?

Have you seen the pictures and videos that have come out of Iraq of the, as you say, "maimed and blown-apart women, children, and babies, victims of" IRAQI POISON GAS?

Have you seen the pictures and videos out of Iraq of Iraqi children, women, police officers, and other innocent civilians blown up by suicide "militia men" as you'd call them?

I'm sorry, that's right, you don't watch any news. It shows.

If you feel so strongly about it, why don't you carry your happy ass over to Iraq, and help those long suffering "freedom fighters" by helping them blow up some of those United Sates soldiers you obviously hate so much.

The depths of stupidity, arrogance, ignorance, and hate that surrounds every word in your postings is amazing to behold.

All this brought to you by the man who chose to ignore law and common sense, and intended to lure criminals to his home to shoot them.......... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Or, were they perhaps just misunderstood militia men, I forget..........

Barak,



With your mind set, it is never going to happen.

You are like my dad who is 85 and lost his driver's license. Everyone doesn't understand.

Careful: just because I'm not a conservative doesn't mean I'm a liberal.


No, I'm not joking. Arafat was a murdering scumbag. Again: just because I'm not conservative doesn't mean I'm liberal.


Watching mass media to be well-informed is like consulting the Brady Campaign to learn about gun safety.


I've probably seen more of them than you have--especially if you've been watching TV news. But you're being caught up in the we're-good-they're-evil mindset too. First of all, you're making the argument, "He started it!" I can't speak to your childhood, but my parents taught me that that argument didn't wash when I was very, very young. Secondly, you're laying the blame for the beheadings on the two wounded Iraqis who were shot, when the overwhelming likelihood is that they had absolutely nothing to do with any of them.


You haven't researched those allegations, have you? You're just repeating something you heard somebody say, right? What was it you said about being well-informed again? The short version is that nobody knows for sure whether the chemical weapons used against the Kurds in 1988 in Halabja were American weapons used by Iraqis or Iranian weapons used by Iranians. However, everybody (well, except people who watch TV news, I mean) knows that they were not Iraqi weapons.

And is this another "he started it" argument? Saddam (or the Iranians, we're not sure) did it, so therefore it's okay for us to do it?


And you apparently don't bother to read the posts you reply to. That shows too. Go back and take a look at the definition of "terrorists" that I posted.


Apparently, the only anti-war people you've met have been liberals. You know what? Scratch that. I'll bet you haven't even met any anti-war people, at least not to talk to: I'll bet you've only heard about anti-war people, and probably only from other pro-war people--Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh, maybe?

The world is a big place, son. You should get out from in front of that TV and look around a little. That tube will rot your brain.

Barak,
Do all anarchists argue with fence posts?
No offence to anyone here,but damn dude,you ain't gotta be right on every point. I'll bet you are a picky eater too!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Well, "son", I've been around this world and have been to more countries than I care to mention, over the course of 10 years serving this country. I wasn't a visitor on vacation. I've lived 7 years of my life overseas in several different countries. No need to lecture me about getting out and seeing anything there bub. But, anytime you want to compare passport stamps and life experiences, I'm game.

Many of my opinions are formed as a result of that real world education. I've had an amazing opportunity at an education and awareness of the world that so many of my countrymen are so unfortunate to not have the ability to of obtained, and instead who get their view of the world through New York Post and NBC.

And that's unfortunate that all americans can't have that exposure. I know through expericence we have about the best thing going in the modern world. I'm not guessing, like others. It's not perfect, but there's nothing better. Piss on it or those who protect it, and I'll do my damndest to return the favor, and then some.

Again, if it's so terrible here, leave. You'll be back, with a little different opinion of our country, and with your tail between your legs. If we'll have you.



Hmmm, didn't think I implied you were liberal with that Michael Moore statement, just meant to imply you were and ignorant, slovenly, POS who would be best served by getting your anti-american ass out of my country that you hate so much. Sorry for the confusion. Hope that clears things up for you there, Mikey.

I don't know any anarchists who argue with fence posts.

I sense that your question was rhetorical, but I don't grasp your point.

Actually,I did expect an answer,however,I am disapointed that my point wasn't grasp'd. Are you a picky eater?

Absolutely not. Not even close. Fear Factor won't accept me because they're looking for a suspenseful game.

Somehow, I'm not suprised... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Barak;
So you sit there on your fat asz you blouted pig, and run your mouth about our military men possibly doing something you don't approve of, when it's their life / safety on the line, and it protects your right to spout off.........

Why are you still here, there is NO LAW keeping you from leaving this country. I think you are a coward, a whining, ungratefull, obese, ignorant, pussy, coward... I can imagine what you'd do if sent to Iraq.............

IF there is so much merit to your off-beat views, why are you just a fat freak on the sidelines...........

Seriously , WHY do you eat so [bleep] much? Is it too much effort for you to get even a little exercise? Do you know you are going to die from being so [bleep] obese...why don't you get your own life in order before you whine about the way our military people protect you...
The above is PURE FACT, my opinion starts here...
You'll notice that Bush won the last election were only about half of the potential voters showed up, I THINK if there was a way to get the rest of the peole to vote, that most of them would choose Bush anyway..........See all you weirdo wannabees will vote to try to change the world, but plenty of regular ol' rednecks out there think they are safely in the vast majority, and that things aren;t going to get too weird no matter what, so why get involved...see they aren't after any big changes.....................there's no way to prove it, but I'll speculate that 100% of the [bleep] voted...thinking it was their big chance, and you know what ....it was. Out of the circle of people I see the most often, less than 10% voted, and none of the ones who didn't vote are [bleep], nor traitors like you.

Accraholic,
Hey man, chill! Give it a break! Have you forgotten that the very reason our troops are in Iraq is to let freedom ring. That means all freedoms, even and especially the right of Barak to state his opinion. I will freely admit I have not read all of what you wrote since once you said:
I kind of tuned you out. That, my friend is simply not acceptable, here or anywhere else, particularly after you said of Barak:
.

I don't agree with Barak's opinion either but I will not brand him a traitor or any other ill-advised epitaph, because he does not share my opinion of this incident, this war or this President. His choice of words have invited much of the derision he has received and I would guess that is by design, but let's not advocate his death. I have to give him this, it took a bit of courage to enter this fray with his specific take on the events and participants. He might have considered discretion being the better part of valor, but from what I have seen that is not Barak's way. I can accept that.

Not many forums have a Barak. I consider us fortunate. Ignore his assaults on mainstream sensibilities and embrace his unique gift .....ha ha!

Niiice...a hissy fit.

I've known the cyber-Barak for years - if you're trying to pizz him off you better change tactics. Right now it's an even bet whether he's laughing at you or feeling sorry for you.

Can we say Vietnam? That is the very same tactics used by the Viet Minh and later the Viet Cong! It worked then and I fear it will work in Iraq. The toughest fight is the one being fought against an enemy such as our folks face over there, they are the finest and best military force ever fielded, but they are trained to fight against other troops. Just as we were in S.E. Asie low these many years ago. I have been a card carring Republican all my adult life but I perceive G.W. Bush as a Republican LBJ.

Let the flames begin if you must. Just remember how RSVN tore this country apart, I'd hate to see a re-run!