Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Hunting Nightmare

Unfortunately, I heard on the local radio this morning that one of the wounded has died so the toll has reached 6. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> They also said that although the shooter had no prior arrests, there was a police call on record of him threatening his wife & waving around a gun. Unfortunately, she refused to cooperate with police & no charges were pressed.

It's a shame when you look back on a situation like this and think "If only..." There was plenty of opportunity to avoid this situation, but like most disasters, you only see how in hindsight.

Redneck, Also, the DNR regs show that IF a hat is worn it must be at least 50% blaze orange, not that a hat MUST be worn. (However, we all know it's safer to wear the blaze hat on the noggin' anyway)

If only...

the wife had pressed charges
the US wasn't so PC in the way we "integrate" our immigrants
the Hmong guy didn't decide to hunt that stand
the hunters didn't notice him in their stand
more of the hunters had their deer rifles with them at the confrontation
Wisconsin had a CCW law
the Hmong guy didn't have a screw loose and have no regard for human life

BCR,

I won't say it can't happen, but I'd bet the farm that Vang is gonna get hammered. Wisconsin doesn't have the death penalty, so Vang will rot in prison. It doesn't matter what the media is saying elsewhere - Wisconsin isn't Massachusetts.

A tremendous amount of animosity has been boiling just below the surface for years between Joe Hunter and the Hmong. I�m not saying all the animosity is legit, but based on my own experiences a lot of it is. I can honestly say that I�ve never had a positive experience with the Hmong in the field, ranging from incredible rudeness to being shot at. The animosity will boil over in the courtroom, and place a whole new light on future encounters with Hmong in the field.

I haven�t had an encounter with Hmong in the field for over 10-years, because I flat refuse to hunt where they hunt. In all my conversations with those that still do, nothing has changed except for the worse.

I have my prejudices just like everybody else, but all in all I�m a reasonable guy. If I gained just one positive experience from a Hmong �hunter� I�d be willing to extend myself a little, but it just hasn�t happened � not one time. I've had dozens of bad encounters. When my own and my pards reaction to a group of Hmong in the field became �lock �n load and get off the road�, we had to ask ourselves just what the hell we were doing there � so we left.

For lots of hunters, asking Hmong to leave private property is a common event. Many times (Every time?) the �ask� disintegrates into �get the hell out� because the Hmong refuse to leave. They often totally ignore you as if you�re invisible. I�ve had times, before I learned better, that I picked what appeared to be the �group leader� and shouted right in his ear � he kept chatting with his buddy like I wasn�t even there.

This tragedy is really going to change the rules. Hunters in the field with their sons and daughters, wives and relatives, it will never be the same.

This year I had two bowhunters from WI. They told stories about "Hmong's" in the woods back home and I figued they were pulling my leg. Guess not. They told me it was fairly common to run across armed gangs of these guys out in the woods, shooting everything that moves. They also said they had at least some fear of these guys, especially while bowhunting. According to them, you can't carry a sidearm while bowhunting in WI. If that's true, maybe the law should be changed. It's too bad one of the victims didn't have a chance to shoot the SOB. That would have been the easiest, cheapest solution.

What you just posted was literally 'new' to me. I had to call the DNR to verify. For umpteen years, I'm sure the law stated that a hat also had to be worn that was also blaze orange. Now I find out that it is indeed optional. One learns something new every day.

I fully agree with you though. Why in the world would anyone want to go out hunting without an orange hat on anyway? The more visible you are to other hunters, the less chance of an accident...

Also, I have to do some further explaining about my earlier post. I didn't word things properly and I feel the need to correct this. What I was talking about was the fact that the 'bad' hunters I was running into were ALL from inside the greater metropolitan area of the Twin Cities. I fully understand that the vast majority of MN hunters are good, honest, safe and dedicated sportsmen and I did not mean to imply that ALL hunters from MN are idiots.... We have some bad apples on this side of the border as well. All states have em......

Mea culpa......

The owner of the sporting goods store that is a customer of mine also has told me many stories of Hmong hunters that were trespassing on his land and he had a hard time getting them to get off. The DNR wardens here also have had run-ins with them, especially over bag limits. In their land they shoot everything that moves in the woods and they can't figure out that that's not done here.

I have not met any Hmong hunters in the woods this year, but I know for a fact that I'll be plenty aware of who or what's around me next year..

Wisonsin is still being run by the flaming liberals in Madison who absolutely refuse to allow persons any self-defense with a firearm regardless. I'm hoping this particular case may actually be the final straw which will tip us over into the numbers of states that allow CCW. We failed last year by ONE vote... ONE! By that dickhead Gary Sherman from the Mellen area.... Not only him, but our flaming liberal Governor is about as anti-firearms as Feinstein and Schumer......

Don't get me started.

Redneck,

No prob from this Minnesotan <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

As a favor to you, I'd ask all my city friends not to hunt in Wisconsin...except I don't have any city friends <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

LMAO... Come to think of it, I don't have any city friends either.

It sounds like there is the potential for another really bad incident to occur in the woods now. People are going to be wary of the Hmong or anyone that looks like they could be Hmong. tom

This guy may single-handedly insured that in the future Hmongs are able to do exactly as they please. Think about it, are you going to risk a shoot-out just to get the guy to move out of a stand.

I think I would probably just back off, find his car, and make sure he had a long walk back to wherever he was going. I would do this on each and every instance I caught them on my place. Maybe, eventually they would go somewhere else after having to walk out a few times.

I dunno about that but it DOES seem as if more armed confrontations will occur. On the one had folks are going to be armed to the teeth before they confront these guys, on the other the Hmong are going to be justifiably paranoid when in the woods and be even more clannish.

Hopefully there will be much more monitoring on the part of Law Enforcement and the general public whenever armed groups of these guys take to the woods.

Down here the thought of hostile Vietnamese/Hmong in the forest just sounds surreal. Forget ideas of "not understanding" our game laws, collectively these guys just dont give a squat.

Likewise the perpetrator in this case had been in this country for at least twenty years AND served in the US Army, to call this guy a "foreigner" is ludicrous.

What is chilling is that, after the fact, he was apparently cold-bloodedly just attempting to escape, trying to just brazen it out, not even removing his incriminating (as it turns out) license tag. I suspect he believed he had made a clean break from the scene, leaving no witnesses who could make a positive ID.

And geeze! What a narrow escape for the two guys who helped him out of the woods, Lord knows what the outcome might have been if the guy had a couple of extra clips.

I am sickened by accounts of the Hmong community commonly experiencing "racism". Useful to compare the experiences of our Vietnamese community along the coast of Texas. Back in the '80's several Vietnamese refugee families were settled along the coast and set up as shrimpers.

Naturally they incurred some emnity from resident shrimpers and their kids were a small minority in school, doubtless they experienced numerous incidents of "racism". To top if off, there were well-publicised incidents of the Vietnamese shrimpers repeatedly raiding protected seabird colonies for eggs as had been their practice in Vietnam.

Twenty years later their kids are mostly doctors and lawyers and such, these folks having the familiar Asian work ethic (sorry, more "racist profiling" on my part here) and value of education. In fact one of them even played (plays?) in the NFL.

Sounds like these Hmong have a Gypsy-like culture that resists acculturation on the one hand (yet more "racist profiling" on my part) and came over in enough numbers to set up their own closed, self-supporting society on the other.

As far as the guy who perpetrated these murders, I'm speculating that it wasn't his first killings. I have read no mention as to how he actually supported himself back in the city yet.

What sickened me too was the familiar-sounding paen from relatives as to what a "good guy" the murderer is, and how these killings were "out of character". Sounds exactly like what we commonly hear from the relatives of more conventional forms of criminal scum down here in Texas.

Birdwatcher

well he either insured that the Hmongs do exactly what they want... or that everytime here after anyone approaching them will be armed to the teeth and ready for a shoot out.. or worse yet shootouts become common-shoot first ask questions later mentality.. I don't know what the answer is but I do know that they need to be made to understand the rules one way or another. I for one do not like the idea of them doing whatever they please just to avoid confrontation.

Dang I should have just waited for Birdwatcher to Post.. he said what I wanted to say except better.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I agree with you it is scary. They don't care and are going to do what they want. It is also scary how close this guy came to getting away. As I posted in another thread, he probably had no idea there were so many of the other hunters and thought it was only the small group. If it had been and he had eliminated them all, they might have never caught him.

It will be interesting to see what else surfaces about this b/c as yall have stated, a lot of it just doesn't add up. The Fox News article I read today stated that they called on the radio before confronting him and as they confronted him the others started on their way there. I guess it's debatable whether or not they heard the shots, but I just don't understand the lack of weapons involved.

The lack of weapons just further indicates to me that this could not have been provoked. If this group of hunters would have been a threatening group at all (like the defense is probably going to try to make them out to be...which is complete BS), then those who came in aid would have been armed, whether they knew there was shots fired or not, and those whom confronted the guy would have kept their eyes on him.

If I ever ran into someone who was where they weren't supposed to be, I would be VERY suspicious and very nervous. The evidence that we know now, which certainly isn't the complete story yet, all points to the victims as being completely unthreatening...almost naive in thinking that something bad could happen...this makes them very 'innocent' in my eyes, and I think it will to the rest of our nation as well.

To me, if you add the above to the other evidence (Especially the FACT that 6 died!), it means that this guy will probably get hammered pretty hard. Hopefully as hard as the law will allow!

My heart goes out to the victims and their families!

Oh, and another great point that Birdwatcher reminded me of...

This guy must have buddied up with the hunters who helped him out of the woods...how cold is that! I don't think our nation will take that lightly either.

Before this story, I would have thought wearing a license # on the outside of you was dumb, but it's a dang good thing that law was in place! If he hadn't of left survivors and that law wasn't in place, it would have been super hard to trace it back to him seems like.

I also agree that calling him a foreigner is ridiculous. And I'd like to know more about his "service". And his wife "not cooperating"...that sounds to me like she knew her life wasn't worth much if she tattled!

Woodrow,

The lack of firearms isn't all that unusual. I'd say the norm (around here) is that most guys leave their firearms out of sight when dealing with tresspassers and the like, out of the desire that nothing escalates. 5 or 6 armed guys showing up to tell someone to leave their property definitely adds some tension that wouldn't be there otherwise. Tension makes people do stupid things.

The $64K question is what happens from now on. As for me, I can't see asking a Hmong to leave my property without being armed anymore. I'll likely expect any of my relatives on the scene to set up a base of fire at a suitable distance.

Boman,
do you know if we have any Hmongs here in colorado? I have only seen one group of asians in the mountains and they were busy strip mining a small stream. They were keeping everything they caught even if it as only 2-3 inches long. As well as having a campfire when it banned because of the fire danger. tom

JOG,

I'll agree that if all had shown up rifle in hand, it would have been very threatening. I guess when I try to invision what happened and try to relate to it in my head, it still doesn't add up. Seems like it would be pretty harmless for them to put a rifle or two on their 4-wheelers to go investigate. I know that if I was at the cabin and someone called in that there was a trespasser I would grab a gun just to be safe, not to be threatening. But even having said that, I don't have a 4-wheeler, but I ALWAYS have a rifle in my truck when I'm out hunting...and I suspect it would be the same if I had a 4-wheeler.

I can see your point, but it still strikes me as odd...

JOG thanks for the explanations. As I said we don't get much but little blurbs in the paper here. Just repeats of the same news wire story.

Also since most all land here is private sneakins are delt with harsly and there is a Trespass to hunt statute that is pretty stiff.

I don't know all the ins and out of this deal as is obvious but if just half of what you boys are saying is true and after this horrible deal I don't know but what did I see one on my place sitting in my tree I might not just go on and shoot him out of it and tell God and the law that I thought it was a hoot owl or something. Accidents do happen in the woods.

BCR