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Well, I finally did it yesterday, I reached Expert class in F-class Long Range shooting FTR with my .308 rifle. On a cold and windy Sunday morning I shot a 572-8 which, taken with my most recent LR score, gives me a 94.5%; 0.5% above the requirement. I have not been able to apply myself to shooting as much as I wanted for the last several month, shooting only once a month or less, and the conditions yesterday were less than conducive to a good score so that made the results doubly sweet. As an added bonus, I also established a new range and club record for the aggregate score in F-TR and 1000 yards. Oh, and I won the match.  I just had to tell somebody. (I also had a wardrobe malfunction which caused me to shoot a 7 in the second match.)
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I would want to tell someone about that too, if it were me.
GOOD JOB on a major personal accomplishment.
I know it has to feel good to be able to say you are an expert class shooter!!
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Thank you very much.
You are absolutely correct, of course.
The NRA has set the bar pretty high for F-class shooters with their tiny targets and it's even more difficult with a .223 or a .308 and a bipod. I'm already NRA Master at mid-range in F-class with my .223 AR-15 target rifle but it was not cutting it at LR.
The next stop at LR is Master, but that is going to be very difficult in F-T/R. This will be 6 consecutive 20 round matches with a score higher around or above my best ever. It's a good goal.
One thing I did notice is that my X-count is low. In the wind yesterday it was all I could do to stay in the 10-ring.
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Campfire Kahuna
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10s count just as much....
Good shooting! We had ok wind here yesterday. Yours was probably much worse I'd bet.
Now that you've made the percentages, nothing guarantees the card though... of course you know that. BTDT a bit.
Hadn't seen a match update via Glenn or whomever it changed to yet, but that may still be coming.
Not shooting enough sucks. I know...and the way it looks right now it may take me all of this year to complete my remodel at the house and barn... might take longer, one never knows.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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They have changed they way they send out the match updates.
Email me directly if you want to get back on.
As for the card, yes, I know but I try to stay on top of it with the NRA. They did get my score for last month and I will make sure they get the one for this month. We've already discussed the percentages and how it works. I find this one to be more difficult than getting Master at MR though I was very pleased when I got that one last year.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Master at MR or SR is easy. HM took some shooting on my part though IE I had to have way more than the required shots to get it.
I filled out the info thing to change the bulletin info....
You should have my email, but I may have something at home when I get home...
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Again, you are equating SR with F-class, especially F-TR. Yes, Master in F-Open is readily attainable, (I would not say "easy",) it's a little trickier in F-TR and while I am sure there are a few, I do not know any HM in F-TR. I have shot HM scores at 300, but I want to earn it at 600, else I will just classify myself out of my league.
It's the same thing with Expert or Master at LR; I wanted to do that at pure 1000 yards, not this 800/900/1000 yard crap. (I mean crap in the nicest sense of the word, of course.)
I'm boarding a plane shortly. I'll check email when I get to my destination tonight.
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Campfire Kahuna
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sorry, I read that to be master MR which meant Match rifle to my mind from your earlier days.... master in XC, especially with a match rifle doesn't take that much IMHO.
Talking F class is another topic and you are right on that one for sure!!!
My bad as they say.
Hope the trip was well and safe.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Tracker
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Hey, Congratulations FTR Shooter!
A match win, a new range and club record and your Expert rank all at once! Excellent!!!
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Thanks GuyM, I was pretty jazzed. And to think I almost didn't go because I was so tired and it was so cold and dreary.
Jeff, my fault. I assumed that people understood MR to be mid-range as oposed to LR long-range. I can now see where that would mess you up.
The trip was find, relatively crash free. It's even colder here.
I look forward to your foray into F-class, I think you will enjoy it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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just hang on long enough for me to get there... my 308 bolt gun is getting coated right now.. then have to buy bottom metal and bed it into the A5 stock... but life is gonna get in the way big time.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Congrats!!!
Sounds like you did some very good shooting.
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Thanks, AJ. I really appreciate the thought.
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Congratulations! That's a nice goal you've reached.
Retired cat herder.
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Thanks g5m. Score and new records just got confirmed this evening.
The next level is going to be a real challenge and I look forward to it.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Hey, just got my link last night I think.... NICE shooting! Maybe I can beat that some day...
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I'm sure you can, but by that time, I'm hoping to have attained even higher scores. I was just looking at my scores compared to the F-Open guys and I didn't do too bad with my old .308, bipod and cheap Weaver scope.
The wind is a great equalizer and I seem to do well in the wind for some reason. I'm thinking it's all the .223 I've sent down range at 1000 yards. Now with a high BC .308 I seem to get more 10s and less silly scores.
This actually shows that anybody can do this and it does not require huge amounts of money. My .308 rifle started life as an old varmint rifle, I spent the money on the barrel; top quality, properly fitted. $400 for a scope, $200 for a bipod and voila, superb rifle. I spend my shooting money on excellent components in bulk. I've been handloading for decades but had to revamp my methods and some equipment in order to turn out large quantities of match ammo.
Don't wait too long to start, nobody is getting any younger.
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Campfire Kahuna
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hell anyone at any age can belly shoot, just ask JJ Conway.. what a role model!
It'll be a year or two or three, but I'll start before I'm 50 anyway...
You do well in the wind for 2 reasons, IMHO. First you sent a lot of 223 downrange is right. Doesn't leave much room for error, but is much easier on the body to shoot. Heck I shot a 308 bolt and HOT 185 bergers for a while at 1000 with irons... I did NOT like that thump after a lot of shots.
Just don't get lazy now that you shoot a more wind resistant rig... shoot for center X each shot.
The second reason you shoot well in the wind is it doesn't fluster you like it does most. Wind takes out about 50% of your competition right off the bat. I always figured, we all have to shoot in it, we'll all make some mistakes, so why worry or bitch about it, just learn to shoot in it. Now I'm talking the difference between F and XC... but I would RATHER shoot in the wind up to a certain point, I can't stand no wind as you rarely get a hard visible warning on a mild puff or such, one that gives you a 9, where as in a big wind I can usually wait it out, and start shooting as the wind is building and have a really good shot at staying with it as long as I'm done before it peaks and levels out.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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In a year or two or three, I'll be close to 60 so don't make me wait that long.
Yeah, when the competition is tough, I pray for wind. If I screw up, I have a ready made excuse.
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FTR Shooter, Congrats, and thanks for your help on past topics.
Luke
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In a year or two or three, I'll be close to 60 so don't make me wait that long.
Yeah, when the competition is tough, I pray for wind. If I screw up, I have a ready made excuse. Age could be part of my plan.... wink... but age doesn't hurt you.. ask JJConway.....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Age, doesn't hurt you? You must be joking, and young. Everything creaks. The other side of 55 has been painful.
Luke, thanks for the nice words. I'm sure you will be matching and surpassing this milestone in no time.
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Don't know how old Conway is, I've shot with Pete Church who has over 60 years of experience... 
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Campfire Kahuna
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Heck JJ is one of the reasons F class came around the way I recall it... he was shooting prone scoped years ago before there was an F class.
IIRC he was in his mid to late 70s and still shooting across the course and except for offhand, generally smoking most folks...
Then F class stuff came along and he continued to excell in it. I don't even know if he is still alive, but don't recall hearing that he died, I'd be betting mid 80s by now...
San Antonio Tx....
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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google... found he was born in 1924 and has a book that I'm going to order!
I still have some cut out groups he sent me via snail mail in the 90s when I was asking about load data since he was big into the 223 back then already...
Would put him around 86 by now....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Puts him about the same age as Pete. Pete still shoots Palma with sights or any/any, plus F-Class. We figure Pete is a "Super Senior"...
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Ok, but the F in F-class is for George Farquharson, a Canadian shooter (from Kamloops, BC I believe,) who came up with the idea in the 90s and sold it to the DCRA. It then spread all over. I believe he died a little while ago.
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Campfire Kahuna
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AJ probably about the same scenario for sure...
Denys-- I hope i didn't infer that F class was for JJ Conway, he was simply right there when Farquarson got it rolling in Canada and a big supporter here in the states to get it rolling. I"m not totally sure, but IIRC JJ won or was really close to winning the initial few years of F class nationals here in the US.
Jeff
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I did a Bing search on JJ Conway and came up with this page: Here is an excerpt, found just above his picture: "J.J. Conway is a legend in his own lifetime. He started shooting in 1949 and only hung up his rifles last year, at age 83. F-Class shooting got its start in Canada by George �Farky� Farquharson (the sport is named for him). In the mid-90�s, Bill Wylde and J.J. traveled to Canada to find out what it was about. Upon returning, they began to promote F-Class throughout the U.S. Although most folks attribute the founding of U.S. F-Class in 1996 to J.J., he is quick to point out that Bill Wylde deserves equal credit for getting him to travel to Canada in the first place and �spreading the word.� Many current F-Class shooters might be surprised to find out that when J.J. started shooting F-Class, he used a 22-250 target rifle with an 80 grain bullet. In case you are wondering, when J.J. took the opening shot, he shot an �X." He still has it!" Great story at http://www.chuckhawks.com/f-class_shooting_2.htm
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Campfire Kahuna
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Bill was big into it too. Of course we know him for something more famous anyway.... the Wylde chamber reamer.
I found the book by JJ. Had a print offer of a drawing he did too.... if I can manage to find JJ back I'll have the book and print from him autographed if he'll oblige, which I suspect he will. Just gotta get hold of Ken Slade.
I'll check the story out, I remember reading a fair amount on him some years back in precision shooting when I still took that rag.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Authors are more than happy to autograph books. Just make sure you send the book to him with a SASE (Self Addressed Stamped Envelope,) so all he has to do is sign it and put it in the envelope and put the latter in his mailbox.
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Congrats on a good score! Some days I think it sure would be nice to be able to shoot just three relays @1k for the cool factor... other days I definitely like the 'warm-up' @ 800 & 900. More chances to screw up elevation, etc. changing yard lines between relays, though so it's not all gravy  The variant we shoot a bit around here is a 'Palma/65' or basically a Palma course + an extra 20rd Any/Any match (for the sling shooters) with unlimited sighters. Are you headed to FCNC in Sacramento? Monte
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Monte, thanks for the nice words.
You're right about screwing up the elevation at different yardage, and I guess it's part of the game but shooting at 800 just looks like cheating. :-) Then again at that time, I get to use my little cart more.
I will not be in Sacramento, work pressures are such that I simply do not have the time. I have not taken any vacation time in over 6 years, but in this economy, I'm not complaining (too much.) It's all I can do to make the state matches, because they are on weekends and not to far away from me.
I may try to get to the nationals next year, in Wisconsin, if I can continue to improve and have the time.
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If you like 1k, you'll really like the pre-match @ Lodi... 1200yds
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Bring it on.
Now, I really need to get out there in 2011.
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I just wanted to add a thought about the reason for my wanting to get to master at 1000 exclusively is the same reason I want to get my mid-range HM card at 600.
I can shoot HM scores at 300, but I can only shoot Master scores at 600. So why jump into the top classification on the basis of what you can only do at the low end of that range. Last match I shot at 800 yards, I came away with a 148-6 or some such and the two nines were almost touching the 10-ring. That is not what I shot or currently shoot at 1000. But I'm trying.
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I can appreciate that... back when 600yd was part of 'long range' by the rules, we ended up with an awful lot of people with NRA Long Range prone cards that say 'High Master'. On the flip side... for most people their F-Class classification seems to be more a reflection of 'where' they shoot, and to a lesser degree what distances. There's a 500yd range over on the coast that I go to on occasion, that is pretty easy to shoot really good scores on (although disturbingly hard to shoot 'clean' most days). Yet I come 'home' to our local range and my scores plummet. The difference? 100yds - and a whole lot of trees sheltering the one vs. none at ours. A HM/MA (F/TR) at the one might get beat by an EX/MA at the other, and the extra 100yds has very little to do with it. Heck, if we had a *300yd* match here I think some people would come away with their tail between their legs - GuyM knows what I mean - because it's located in a very bad spot for wind due to the terrain. Come to think on it... 800yds is probably the only reason I *have* an Expert card @ Long Range. Our nearest 8/9/1k range is a nasty one - ever hear of a 'Rattlesnake clean'? Given that most of our local (within 5-6hrs drive) matches struggle to have enough people to break out F/Open & F/TR, much less by shooter classification... I put relatively little weight on what someone's card says.
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Campfire Kahuna
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I can appreciate that... back when 600yd was part of 'long range' by the rules, we ended up with an awful lot of people with NRA Long Range prone cards that say 'High Master'. On the flip side... for most people their F-Class classification seems to be more a reflection of 'where' they shoot, and to a lesser degree what distances. There's a 500yd range over on the coast that I go to on occasion, that is pretty easy to shoot really good scores on (although disturbingly hard to shoot 'clean' most days). Yet I come 'home' to our local range and my scores plummet. The difference? 100yds - and a whole lot of trees sheltering the one vs. none at ours. A HM/MA (F/TR) at the one might get beat by an EX/MA at the other, and the extra 100yds has very little to do with it. Heck, if we had a *300yd* match here I think some people would come away with their tail between their legs - GuyM knows what I mean - because it's located in a very bad spot for wind due to the terrain. Come to think on it... 800yds is probably the only reason I *have* an Expert card @ Long Range. Our nearest 8/9/1k range is a nasty one - ever hear of a 'Rattlesnake clean'? Given that most of our local (within 5-6hrs drive) matches struggle to have enough people to break out F/Open & F/TR, much less by shooter classification... I put relatively little weight on what someone's card says. I have a service rifle prone LR card that says High Master due to too many 3x600s with the service rifle where I"d drop maybe 2-3 points max over 3 strings... a 66 shot agg around 598 does "wonders" for your "average"..I didn't agree at all, but then I was trying to figure out how to become a good 600 yard shooter and needed the firing time.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I found myself in a similar situation... early on I didn't really understand how the classifications were calculated, and though 'Any/Any' would be different some how than my 'iron sight' classification. Shot a two-day 600yd Prone match with a scope on my 6.5-08 XTC rifle (trying to figure if the problem was my eyes or the gun) and later found a Long Range 'Master' card in the mail. Nowadays I can usually live up to it if I've been practicing and the conditions aren't horrible...
On the other hand... back when the word had came out that after such-n-such date 600yds would no longer be classified as 'long range' *and* that the percentages were going up... I had a person show up at one of our two-day matches, shooting with a scoped 6XC, shot just well enough to qualify as a 'High Master', and then hounded me to make *sure* his scores got submitted in time so he could claim to be a 'Long Range High Master'. I don't think he's ever shot sling since, and I've never seen him at 'real' long range, 800 or otherwise. Other people 'cherry-pick' which ranges to shoot at in order to inflate their classifications. Knowing things like that tend to reduce my faith in what a card says... after a day or two on the range with a person I have a better feel for what caliber of a shooter they really are than by looking at their NRA card.
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Monte, 600 yards being called LR is a joke. I can see why that was changed, especially for F-Class.
I am lucky to live within driving distance (less than 1 hour) from the only available 1000 yard range in southeast Texas. In fact I'm not really aware of any other 1000 yard outside of military bases in the state.
We have lots of people showing up for the monthly LR matches, (1000 yards) coming from all over Texas and Louisiana and Oklahoma also. There is usually 20+ F-class shooters, of which 7+ are F-T/R shooters. We have enough people to even break break the F-T/R into classifications, though we have to combine Expert and SS together. We do not have LR Master F-T/R shooter, but we have several MA/HM LR F-Openers.
The range is always windy, very few trees and only on one side. The flags lie and it's great fun.
We had one F-opener shoot a clean at 1000, some months back. And now our F-openers are all switching to 7MM. I would love to shoot one at 1000 yards with my .308. That would be great.
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This past weekend, I shot the 1000 yard match once again (barely made it back in town for the match.) The wind was nasty this time, switching from right to left and front and back. I shot a 188-4 on the first match, collecting a pair of 8s. I was really feeling poorly when I started but got into the game. The rifle was performing well and the ammo was great; the shooter was so-so.
The next match I was on a roll starting with a 10, followed by a 9, X, 9 and then a long string of 10s. My puller was doing a great job and I was banging them in, telling myself over and over again, "do your follow through!" I was nearing the end of the string when I got a 7 at 2 o'clock. It was a heck of a suprise. I had not detected any condition change, so I took the next shot holding at the same spot and got a 9 at 3 o'clock. Next shot, I favored left a tad, and got a 9 at 9 o'clock, then I shot an 8, another 9 and then X, X, 10 to finish. Total was 190-3 and that was with a 7 and an 8. I have no clue where that 7 came from. The 8 and 9s were all wind. Nasty wind, I tell ya.
You should have seen the group in the 10-ring, it was all at 6:30 just an inch below the X-ring, about 7 bullet holes easily covered with a fist.
The last match started with a 10 and then a long string of 9s left and right. Towards the end, I finally got into the 10-ring and even managed one lonely X. Total score 189-1. I won the match, but the wind really beat me up. The F-open scores were down also.
The NRA has acknowledged my scores and I will be receiving my LR F-Class Expert, all shot at 1000 yards exclusively. Right now, I seem to be shooting right in that classification, it's going to be tough to get to Master level. I have only one 20 round match that fits in that classification and it's still a range and club record, 194-5.
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Okay, so- I am buying a target actioned savage. The questions is- what model. I think I am sticking with the .308 winchester, but am wondering about the twist rate on the palma.
How will the 1 and 13" twist shoot the 168, and 175's? I have a mass of them, as that's what I shoot from my 5-R.
The savage ftr is a 1 and 12", as is the bench rest.
Any suggestions? I was also considering the model 12 precision varmint, as it's a repeater..but when would I really ever need more then one shot at a time?
Thanks for the help,
FMP
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The 1:13 won't make you happy. If you are going to shoot Palma matches with the 155gr SMK, get the Palma model. I not, get the FTR model.
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Complete accident posting here.. Excuse my post FTR.. Thank you for all your help.
FMP
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Monte, 600 yards being called LR is a joke. I can see why that was changed, especially for F-Class.
I am lucky to live within driving distance (less than 1 hour) from the only available 1000 yard range in southeast Texas. In fact I'm not really aware of any other 1000 yard outside of military bases in the state.
We have lots of people showing up for the monthly LR matches, (1000 yards) coming from all over Texas and Louisiana and Oklahoma also. There is usually 20+ F-class shooters, of which 7+ are F-T/R shooters. We have enough people to even break break the F-T/R into classifications, though we have to combine Expert and SS together. We do not have LR Master F-T/R shooter, but we have several MA/HM LR F-Openers.
The range is always windy, very few trees and only on one side. The flags lie and it's great fun.
We had one F-opener shoot a clean at 1000, some months back. And now our F-openers are all switching to 7MM. I would love to shoot one at 1000 yards with my .308. That would be great. Waco has whats called Dillon that goes to 1000... you want to learn to shoot... its not quite as bad as Bullis was IMHO, but it wasn't easy... that range is the only time I really shined at a state match... David Tubb shot a 196 with his Tubb2000 and I shot a 200-13x with my service rifle at the 6. And went on to win SR palma ending up placing 3rd overall in palma the next day.... with the SR.... I don't know how often Dillon is open to the public anymore though. Bad deal there and a long story. Other than that I don't know of another non military 1000 yard range.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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This past weekend, I shot the 1000 yard match once again (barely made it back in town for the match.) The wind was nasty this time, switching from right to left and front and back. I shot a 188-4 on the first match, collecting a pair of 8s. I was really feeling poorly when I started but got into the game. The rifle was performing well and the ammo was great; the shooter was so-so.
The next match I was on a roll starting with a 10, followed by a 9, X, 9 and then a long string of 10s. My puller was doing a great job and I was banging them in, telling myself over and over again, "do your follow through!" I was nearing the end of the string when I got a 7 at 2 o'clock. It was a heck of a suprise. I had not detected any condition change, so I took the next shot holding at the same spot and got a 9 at 3 o'clock. Next shot, I favored left a tad, and got a 9 at 9 o'clock, then I shot an 8, another 9 and then X, X, 10 to finish. Total was 190-3 and that was with a 7 and an 8. I have no clue where that 7 came from. The 8 and 9s were all wind. Nasty wind, I tell ya.
You should have seen the group in the 10-ring, it was all at 6:30 just an inch below the X-ring, about 7 bullet holes easily covered with a fist.
The last match started with a 10 and then a long string of 9s left and right. Towards the end, I finally got into the 10-ring and even managed one lonely X. Total score 189-1. I won the match, but the wind really beat me up. The F-open scores were down also.
The NRA has acknowledged my scores and I will be receiving my LR F-Class Expert, all shot at 1000 yards exclusively. Right now, I seem to be shooting right in that classification, it's going to be tough to get to Master level. I have only one 20 round match that fits in that classification and it's still a range and club record, 194-5. Here I am.. haven't shot in a while and probably will suck, but let me congratulate you first. And then remind you that if you are not centered for elevation, you screw yourself as the 10 ring becomes narrower and narrower.. Just an observation, and unless you are trying to protect yourself against a certain condition change, being in the center of the x is a much more forgiving place, especially since you know the x ring is twice as big as the ten ring is.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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I know, I know. I want to be in the X-ring, but I was so reticent to make any changes as long as I as in the 10-ring. I had the sight picture and the rounds were going into the 10 one after the other. I just had a mental block. I'm still learning.
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NRA has upgraded my LR rating to Expert. Now, on to Master, I hope.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Was out of town.. CONGRATS!!!
I shot my new 308 at 725 last weekend, ran out of elevation, could not make it to 800...
Mirage was horrible on 14x... dunno how you live with 40X.... Had 3 different layers going... was funny to watch, mirage one way, and dust go the other.
Shot a 5 shot group prone off a bipod with holdover and no mil dots etc... that ended up being about 10 inches round.... I know that mostly sucks but it seemed to be holding decent elevation.... bergers expanded nicely in the clay but mostly held together.
The bergers did no favors for javelina either. But not nearly as much damage as I expected.
I guess I'll have to go with a sloped rail and who knows beyond that.... FWIW I was 1.3 inches high at 100 and took about 25 moa to get to 725... I only had 23 left....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Yes, they updated the records on Friday and they bumped me up. Looks like BRI does a very good job at sending the results quickly.
5-shot group in 10 inches at 750 could be a little problematic so you do need to get used to the rifle and the groups will shrink. On the other hand, we really do not shoot for groups, we shoot for score. So if you superpose the group over the FC-target, it may be a little better than you think.
I have 20MOA canted rails on both match rifles.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I don't think that group size was representative at all... heat of the day, aiming at a dark spot on a dirt pile because I couldn't see the cactus leaf we put at the base from prone.... wind shifty... elevation was under MOA... windage was interesting... the mirage going different directions etc.....
And then the fact that the dark spot was actually a holdover issue and such...
Of course the only way to know for sure is shoot it on paper, but I now have only 2 options, put burris rings on or get a rail.... I may just put rings on for the time being.
I am now owner of 16 more pounds of Varget though... but I need to look into more bullets....
But yeah, it may well be the issue of the bipod too.... and didn't help with cactus and mesquite thorns sticking my belly without a mat...
I was looking at a light IE TI rail, but then realized the gun isn't light to start with....
Any suggestions on a rail?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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EGW makes some pretty good aluminum rails...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Was thinking/wondering... would a good steel rail help stiffen the action even more though?
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Depends... is it a Winchester Seriously, though... unless its epoxied/welded in place, I don't see a few tiny 6x40 (or whatever the thread pattern is) screws adding much in the way of rigidity. If you want steel, Warne & Farrell are both pretty good. Warne is fairly low profile, Farrell are pretty darned high - not entirely a bad thing if using a 56mm objective and then tilting it *down* in the front.
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I don't know if I told you about my Match .308 rifle. It is a Ruger M77, the old tang version, circa 1983. I rebarreled it with a top of the line heavy 32 inch barrel. The stock is a Boyds that I installed some years back. It's their varmint/target model, they don't make it any more. The trigger is a Timney. The cheap Weaver T-36 on the rifle did not have enough elevation to reach 600 yards in the standard Ruger rings. I tossed the rings and installed Burris adapters instead. On top of those I use Burris Zee Signature rings with the plastic inserts to get me the forward cant that I needed. I boresighted various combinations until I saw that I was about 3 feet high at 100 yards. It was epic and kludgy but it works for me.
So listen to Monte, he has a real rifle with proper accoutrements, not a Rube Goldberg contraption like mine. He'll steer you right.
SO, where did you get your brace of Varget kegs, I'm starting to look around for more as I will soon be starting my last 8lbs keg.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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traded for them... I have to order 2 kegs of other powder to replace them for a friend thats starting to shoot a 6.5x284 now instead of 308.... I"m slow to order since I need to order some one pounders of test powder too....just haven't figured out what all I want to test in some guns.... RL25 and RL22 for sure, RL17..... And maybe a bit of Ramshot Hunter possibly... REally want some N560 but thats out until later from what I hear..
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Does he have more Varget?
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Nope, but if you want some, PM or email me, I'll look up the price and you can have my price when I order in the next month... or if you are in a bind, you can have one of mine.... I don't know that my dealer costs are any less than a good deal from powder valley or similar.....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Definitely interested in a brace of 8lbs kegs of Varget.
BTW,are you going to be at TSRA next month at Swift? I have made my arrangements and sent in my registration already. Let's see if I can learn to turn a scope's knobs properly.
I hope to be at the 1000 yard match in April and you're supposed to be at the one in May, remember?
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Sinclair has Varget in stock...
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Swift depends on work load. If I'm there, it'll be to work the line only.
May.... isn't looking that good right now but things can change. I have to find a base for the gun and swap out and zero and right now the next 6 weekends are planned basically....
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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AJ, thanks for the tip. They really do like their Varget. That's a lot of money for it. But they do have it.
Jeff, I hope to see you at Swift.
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