Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Model 70 vs Mauser 98?

My statement was aimed at the current belted mags....375HH,.458...how many M70's have you seen work with the .416 RIGBY,.505 Gibbs or even .460 Wby? .510 Wells ?

I really don't think much of WSM's anyway,I sure see a lot of them sitting on used gun racks for sale. Maybe they don't shoot or feed,but that was not the question here anyway.

I am interested in what you have to say Ray. I am not looking to fight just learn something. I was looking at Lon Pauls guns and they just looked perfect for dangerous game rifles. Anyone have any experence or know anything about him?

Model 70 camp. The Dakota if I remember correctly lacks something the Model 70 has (I believe it's the extra bulge (?) on the bolt making it less strong? Maybe the gunsmiths can chime in. jorge

Lon Paul is one of the top builders in the country.He knows what makes a bolt gun work,understands the feeding issues of the magazine and makes the the best DG rifles out there.You do NOT see many of his rifle out on the used market,because the owner won't give them up...
I too am in the M70/P64 camp,for the most part,having hunted with them since 1967 or so,however I like the Mausers,but mine are all small bore,8mm or less.Brno's are the best.

I understand.. I don't see many Mausers in those either, unless it's the quite-rare magnums.. I see those that convert standard Mausers to these kinds of rounds and all I can say is, they can have 'em.. When it gets to that kind of power (ala the NEs, 500,600 etc.), most end up to be double rifles...

But, whatever.. The .458WM can handle pretty much anything on the planet and those were factory offerings in the M70..

Very true, all around..

Mauser can do both..keyword..."proper Mauser"

We can agree on agreeing....I hate seeing Mausers cut up,ground on and attempts made to work on something that shouldn't be...
and the same goes for P64/M70's....
rifle"

don't forget the M70 was chambered to the 300 RUM , and by all accounts they fed pretty good......

What is the best donor action for a 404J or 416 Rem? Where would be the best place to find one?

I think a few of those on AR found their way to 404 Jeffery

I own a Model 70 SS in .300 RUM and topped it off with a 4.5-14 Zeiss Conquest. It is one of the best feeding model 70's I have used. It is also a genuine sub MOA rifle shooting the 200gn Accubonds.

JW

Yep.. Got a Classic SG in .300RUM.. Those are ok..


It was the shorter WSMs that at times were causing grief...

As the owner of one magnum Mauser actioned rifle (.404 Jeffery) and three slant magazine Rigby actioned rifles (.375 H&H, .350 Rigby Magnum, .400/.350), plus original Oberndorf sporters in 9X57, 8X60, and 7X57, and military Oberndorf based sporters in .358 Winchester, .308 Winchester and 6.5X.308, as well as 25 or so pre-64 Model 70's, predominately pre-war models, and ranging in caliber from .22 Hornet to .450 Watts Magnum, I think I am in a position to judge the question pretty fairly.

I have shot Model 70 target rifles for over thirty years, and in the course put more rounds through them in one season than the average hunter would use in a lifetime. In my opinion, the pre-war Model 70 cannot be beat for ease of operation, reliability, superior design and strength.

I value my original Oberndorf sporters and would be glad to face dangerous game with one in my hands, but I would much prefer the Model 70 where speed of operation was a factor.

I have seen one Model 70 blow up in a lifetime of shooting. This was on the 600 yard line at Fort Benning, and the shooter fired the shot, checked it through his scope, and went to reload, only to discover that the top half of the barrel above the chamber was missing, and the corresponding section of receiver ring with it. Neither the shooter nor the scorer had noticed anything abnormal about the shot, and it was marked and scored as usual. Since the ammunition was clearly not at fault, the obvious culpret was the barrel, which evidently had an undiscovered flaw in the chamber area which resulted in the barrel giving way and taking the top of the receiver with it. No one was hurt, and the shooter continued firing with another rifle.

Under the same circumstances, I am sure a Mauser action would have behaved exactly the same.

The Mauser thumb cut and narrow tang are its weakest parts, making the action less stiff and liable to bending unless inletted with the greatest of care. The left locking lug is weakened by the inclusion of the ejector slot. The unaltered Mauser extractor will not allow single loading except through the magazine. The original Mauser wing safety and bolt handle do not allow for low scope mounting. The Model 70 adjustable trigger is vastly superior to the Mauser version.

The Model 70 is a refinement of the Mauser in virtually every way.

My SC 375 is the best gun ever made..beat it!

As in Winchester South Carolina made 375 H&H?

xausa: Welcome to the CF! Interesting thread and thanks for relating that info....

Seen any other faux pas with either the Mauser or the M70?

Match shooters do get to shoot far more than many hunters so get to see rifle flaws and action problems to a greater degree than some other shooters.Plus they are always tinkering with rifles, replacing barrels frequently,etc. Their input is always valuable.

One of the problems with forums is so often opinions are not supported by the conditions, type of use etc. The type of use will determine how important a problem or failure was, for some conditions it would not even be remembered but for others it would be vital. A good example would be deer shooting in America and pig or goat shooting in Australia. For the American a bullet failure is very important as limited number of animals and the animal is being recovered. But magnify the number of animals and they are left where they fall then a bullets performance will tend to be assessed over a week of shooting and that can give two differen opinions on the same bullet and similar size animals.

Rosco bought it from Lee24 just before he left the fire!!

The M-98 was designed for rugged battle-field conditions while the M-70 was designed as a sporting rifle. The Mauser is the more rugged design while the M-70 is slightly better in the accuracy department but I doubt many hunters will ever encounter conditions where they see either fail.
I have seen freezing and wet, rusting conditions where M-70's failed to fire due to their shorter, weaker firing pin fall.

Unless the pre-64 Mod 70 was altered for HANDLING GAS, THEY SURE PUT Gas back in the face of shooters from pierced primers, ask me how I know. I shoot the pre-64's for many years in National match across the course both the pre-war and post war nodes and can tell you that the firing pin and the bolt shroud (without modification do direct gas back to the shooters face) Wish it was not the case but it was. I never had a Mauser do that to me. Yes the M-70 has a lot more going for it in the trigger department. The late , great ROY DUNLAP had a wonderful cure for the model-70 and it eliminated the gas in the face problem once and for all.

Point taken, but my circumstances are perhaps a bit different. I live in a part of my state where the deer season begins September 26 and ends January 10. During that time, the daily limit on deer is three, with the proviso that only three antlered deer may be taken per season.

Fifty years ago, deer were a rarity around here, now, after a perhaps overenthusiastic transplanting project, they are a menace, with the number of road accidents and other deer involved encounters steadily growing. A motorcyclist was killed near here last year when a deer collided with his machine and threw him into the path of an oncoming vehicle.

The year before, a bank officer in a downtown bank was surprised when a buck jumped through a window and landed on her desk. The deer ran amok in the bank, was eventually trapped in the bank president's office and sedated, only after he had totally trashed the office.

Then there's the crop damage. I own about 100 acres of cropland which are planted yearly in soybeans. Some portions of the fields are completely destroyed by the deer.

I could apply for permission to destroy deer causing crop damage, but if I did shoot such deer out of season, they would have to be left where thay lay. I consider the loss of that much potential food inconcienable, so I prefer to confine my shooting to the regular season, when I try to take full advantage of the game laws. The deer are distributed to families who have expressed an interest in the meat and are willing to pay for the processing.

My opportunities to try out hunting rifles and calibers are virtually unlimited, and for that reason I try to use as many calibers and rifles as I can. Last year, for example, I shot deer with a 7X57 G33/40 Mauser sporter, a .358 Winchester on an Oberndorf military action, a 7X64 on a BRNO 22H rifle, and a .25-'06 (rechambered from .257 Roberts) on a pre-war Model 70 action. Ranges were from 50 to 250 yards.

I have killed deer with a .22 Savage HiPower Model 99 Savage, with a .308 Winchester Model 88 Winchester, with a .400 Whelen on a 1903 Springfield, with a Sauer and Sohn drilling in rifle caliber 8X57IR and with other rifles and calibers which don't come to mind right now.

I killed a whole menagerie of African game with my .300 H&H Model 70. I killed other African animals with rifles ranging from caliber .222 Remington, through 7X57, .375 H&H, .458 Winchester, .450 Watts, and a .505 of my own design. While I have never hunted in Alaska or in the mountains, I think I can comment on the experiences I have had with some degree of confidence.