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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 21,789 Likes: 2 |
Wizard:
Ya gots you a real App-Uh-Latchin Special there! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Say Hi to Bubba for me. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /><img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Good shooting,
BMT <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by BMT; 11/29/04.
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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I'll play with the load development a little and see what happens. I think 1.5 would be alright for what I'm going to use it for--but I'll still rebarrel somewhere down the road.
For what it's worth, Remington did make a carbine 788 in .243 win. It had a short barrel--18.5 inches I think. I can see the thinking behind such after playing with my "new" rifle a bit this afternoon. It'll point right out the truck window real easy like us Apple-atchun deer hunters like to do... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Dan
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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It'll point right out the truck window real easy like us Apple-atchun deer hunters like to do... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Campfire Member
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Thanks guys, for all of the responses.
Here is what I did for a "temporary" fix. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I thought what the heck, the barrel is toast, so I can't hurt it much by cutting it.
You guys are going to think I'm nuts... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
But I hack-sawed it off 3.75 inches from the muzzle, making it 18.25 inches long. Got muh-say-ulf a carbine yuk yuk. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I made the cut pretty square, but used a large flat file to shape the muzzle. I just eyeballed it to be truthful, but got it pretty straight if I do say so myself.
I used the flat file to break the outside corner and round it down. Got that looking pretty symmetric...
I then needed a "real" crown on the muzzle. So I took a carriage bolt from my scrounge-box and chucked the shaft of it in my cordless drill. I then took a strip of 240 grit emery cloth (a strip about 1/2" wide and 3 inches long) and taped it across the round head of the carriage bolt. I held the barreled action upright on a chair and beared down with the drill/carriage-bolt/sandpaper apparatus and let it grind into the muzzle. This situation tended to self align for the most part (the barrel and spinning carriage bolt had to be relatively in line or the bolt would spin off the muzzle). I replaced the sandpaper three or four times, just using electrical tape to tape a new strip of sandpaper over the carriage bolt. This worked! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Then I had to polish things up a bit. I used a small plumbing pipe cap (about 3/4" inside diameter) and put a bolt and tap through that to make a cup that would spin on the end of my drill (imagine a wine glass looking thing). I put some 0000 steel wool into the cup and smeared some Flitz in there too. I put this over the crown and spun it until the crown and muzzle were totally polished. It looked really good.
Then for one last touch up of the crown, I used a small round headed brass screw with some lapping compound on it (got the lapping stuff from my scope ring lap kit). I thought I'd sharpen the crown a bit in case the steel wool rounded it out some. This worked pretty well also--it didn't mark up the muzzle--it just sharpened the edge inside the crown.
Last of all, degrease and cold blue. I'm sure one of you 'smiths could see the kitchen table work stick out like a sore thumb, but for my part I can't tell it from a factory crown job.
But does it shoot any better?
Well, a little. I did turn in some encouraging groups at the range this evening with some old standby loads. Encouraging--that is--for a "shot out" barrel (which this one pretty much is). The old rifle held 1.5 MOA for five shots of a couple different recipes--and this with a fixed 4 power Bushnell Trophy, 4x40--yes, they did make such an animal for one and only one year. Bright scope for a cheapie...
Anyway, I got 2850 fps from 85 grain Sierra BTHP's, with an ES of only 35 fps. With a little more load development I might just get her to at least hover around MOA (hope of hopes, yeah)... Shortening the barrel did improve the groups some, but certainly not to the level that the rifle once shot. Nonetheless, it's useful now. Short and easy to handle, for sure...
I rekkin' I got myself a half decent deer and yote rifle. I'll use it like this until funds permit doing the proper thing. I gotta say I like the short barrel--so maybe an 18.5 inch custom would make as much speed as the old 22" factory job did. Ideas, ideas... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Thanks again for the read. And by the way, if the above has offered any of you some much needed comic relief, let me say that I was glad to be of service... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Dan As we used to say in "the Old Corps" -- "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome". & you don't need to be a Nuclear scientist PH(u)D. to do it. Realize that if Jeff Foxworthy hears of this you may see yourself mentioned on the blue collar tour. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is better to die a free man, weapon in hand, than to live life as a coward & a slave"
Author unknown
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"Realize that if Jeff Foxworthy hears of this you may see yourself mentioned on the blue collar tour."
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Yeah, no doubt about it... "If you saw the barrel off of your huntin' rifle so as it'll swing to point out the truck winder easier... you might be a redneck!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
I did talk to Carroll Pillant at Sierra this moring and asked him if the 85 grain BTHP would do a job on a deer with the 2800 to 2850 muzzle velocity I'm getting. He said no problem, and actually went on to say that this particular bullet would probably do better at the lower velocity for shots inside 100 yards.
As mentioned, I'm going to try to shave another 1/2 MOA off the groups I'm currently getting with a little additional load development. However, I'm not going to push the barrel too much, given the condition it's in...
Dan
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Dan, I'm not sure what powder you are using, but I have had good luck with RE-15, IMR4350, and IMR3031 behind the 85 BTHP sierra. RE-15 yeilds right at 2900 fps, 4350 and 3031 both give around 3050 fps and accuracy is MOA or better in my M77 and M77 MKII. Bullets are seated just shy of the rifling. I carried the RE-15 combo this year hunting mule deer in western Nebraska. Didn't get one, but had fun.
I don't eat anything that didn't have a mother.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Regular
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OP
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Thanks kecatt,
how long is the barrel on your rifle?
Dan
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Joined: Jul 2002
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Both are factory 22" guns. I know a guy who has a 18.5" 788. It escapes me now what our vel. differences are, though.
I don't eat anything that didn't have a mother.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,620
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2003
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Why not drop 45 dollars and get a proper crown? But hey, if it is goodnuff,
I cut back a 308 rem700synthetic to 17" and I like it plenty. Real handy.
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Campfire Tracker
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This ought to generate some heat, but here goes!
Clean you barrel as well as you can. Try to get it down to bare steel, ie, no metal fouling.
Now try shooting moly coated bullets. I am betting you will see a marked improvement. Yours will not be the first shot out barrel that was "healed" using moly.
Okay, bunker suit on.................. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Ted
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Ted,
I'll try it. I've got some 60 grain Bergers just sitting around I think...
Thanks for the suggestion.
Dan
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Update...
I didn't get a chance to try the moly coated bullets, but I did have the good fortune to receive a Sierra Bullets "X-ring" newsletter which reminded me of something...
If you're dealing with a barrel with a worn throat, often a flat based bullet will improve things. I've been shooting boat-tails up until now in this rifle...
Anyway, I began working with the Hornady 87 grain soft point bullet. (Sorry Sierra, these were available and cheap!)
I worked up to a max of 46 grains of IMR 4831 and saw no pressure signs.
I found that the rifle would fire MOA or sub MOA groups with 44.8 grains, 45.6 grains, and 46.0 grains. In fact the 46.0 grain charge gave me a couple of nice three shot 3/4" groups at 100 yards--and this with a fixed 4X scope.
Velocity was 2750 fps. Not screamin' but remember it's an 18 3/8" barrel...
Anyway, the barrel still seems to have some life left in it. Shortening it and re-crowning it helped it noticeably with boat-tail bullets, and going to the flat based bullet seems to have made further improvement yet.
Now all I need to find out is how well an 87 grain Hornady SP will work on a deer with an MV of 2750 fps... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Dan
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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I made an effort to scan the crown/muzzle. It's shown below... You can see the blast burst around the crown is pretty even, an indication that it is relatively symmetric I would think. There is a light dish to the crown that you really can't see--but suffice it to say that it's a little more shallow than the factory dish, but not as shallow as you see on most heavy barrels. And here is the rifle itself. I stained the stock Remington green a few years back. Just mixed a little hunter green paint with some clear varnish (my father in law is a hardwood flooring specialist, he gave me the idea) and it makes a green stain that doesn't cover the natural grain. Factory 788 stocks are pretty homely so I thought I'd dress this one up a bit. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Poly'd over that with a satin finish... Might not be some folks cup of tea, but I've actually gotten a lot of positive comments on it at the range. One guy even said he "remembered" when Remington did that "special run" of green 788's... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> By the way, she's shooting consistent 1/2 to 3/4 MOA three shot groups with the recipe mentioned above now. Spoke to a tech at Hornady and he said that shortening an old worn barrel definitely can improve accuracy. All I can say is that it helped this old barrel immensely... Dan
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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Here is a better photo of the crown dish... By the way, the dark area at the edge of the bore at about 6 o'clock in the first photo is powder residue; the edge is clean and sharp all the way around...
Hunting should never be used to compensate for poor long range shooting skills. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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