Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game side arm for bear protection !!

Lets be realistic, the odds on being chared by a griz or blackie are very slim. The point i'm making about the ruger is that you can't practice enough with it to be comfortable to shoot anything with it. if you hit anything its just lucky!
Good points about handgun power.
The problem is that you won't have what you want when and if you need it. you'll just have to use what you got at the time and make due. I'd use an Ax if that's all i had on hand. better that then to go down without a fight. You'll probably loose but the stories they'd write would be worth it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Basicly use what gives you the warm and fuzzy and do your best to avoid getting into the situation.
Regards,
Paul

well what can you shoot more accurately? what one can you get into action the quickest?

HI,

I carry this a 500Linebaugh made by MR. Clements, I use a 475 grain WFN at 1200fps,Kev

That's a subjective question. For ME with a 454 i need at least 4" of barrel and a solid grip to be comfortable PRACTICING with it. Accuracy can only come with practice. I concede that a 2" barrel would come faster from a holster and that in the case that you needed to shoot it in defence then you wouldn't notice it. Practice on the other hand is a different story. I know, use 45colt and your fine. cool ammo is cheeper but i still wouldn't own one! YMMV!
Any pistol is better than a rock or pointy stick! IMHO. I'm sure these rugers will sell like mad! good for them. i'm certain that someone else can handle the recoil from the little beast but i am comfortable in saying that i'm not that man. If someone here gets one and can give a comparison with the longer barrelled version then i would entertain the idea.
No flame intended to anyone. Just my opinion.
Regards,
Paul

Las,

"File the front sight smooth....."

Good idea - it won't hurt so much when the bear rams the barrel up my... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

When I was engaged for 11 years drugging and tagging polarbears I used to carry a .44 Magnum S&W and a .338 Win, or a .350 Rem. rifle. We always kept the rifle handy but since we were only working with two men, who needed their attention fully on the job at hand, there was always the possible danger of surprise of another bear suddenly appearing from behind that block of ice 3 yards away with the rifle leaning against another ice block 5 yards away. For that reason we had the .44mag handguns as a last ditch defense. Only once did a co-worker of mine have to use the .44 mag., kiling an overly agressive sow with one shot in the head. The bullet a soft point factory load did terrible damage to the 500 lbs. sows skull.
In another instance I had a surprise attack of a 2year old weighing about 350 lbs after I had drugged the littermate and his mom.
This one never read the book about bear behaviour, which teaches that young bears should be timid and shy, hiss and chomp their teeth a bit, but stay hidden at all times behind mom. I was walking in a circle around the group, trying to shoot a dart into him.
The chopper could not do it while hoovering like we do normally, due to a heavy load. Well, suddenly the youngster shot like a bullet low to the ground from behind mom and sissy towards me from about 15 yards. I knew that due to the short distance I had no time to draw my .44 mag. My back-up man, with a loaded .350 rifle at the ready, being a local inuit stood oblique behind me. At that moment of the charge, I saw him turn and run. I threw the dart gun at the bear, since I was holding the dart under my arm to prevent the drug from freezing in the -25 degrees temp. It did not stop the bear and he slammed hard into me bowling me over. I pulled in my legs and kicked out hard at the bear. He reacted by grabbing my left foot into his mouth, and shake me around. I recall yelling shoot....shoot....shoot to my backup man who by then had pulled himself together, turned around and fired a shot with the .350 into the bears shoulder. At the impact point of the bullet, I remember seeing a handfull of blood flying. The bear let go almost immediatly of my ankle and ran back to mamma, but fell over just before reaching her. Save for a couple of bruise marks on my ankle I was not hurt, thanks for the heavy duffles in my snowboots. When I was lying down with the bear shaking me, I reached for the holster strap of the hand gun but could not find it in the snow in that short time. A quickdraw type of holster would have been more suitable, so I could have yanked the revolver out, while occupying the bear during that time with my less essential body parts. This ofcourse incase my back-up man would have permanently departed for the relative safety of the chopper 50 yards away, leaving me to fend for myself.
The chopper pilot who had a good view of the ruckus said that from the moment the youngster charged to the shot was no more then 7 seconds. The Inuit hunter appologized for his initial panic moment and made me swear not to tell anything in the village about it. Lucky for me it was only an inexperienced youngster and not a large angry 1200 lbs. boar that probably would have crunched most of my skeleton and killed me in short order.
This was the only real serious run in I had with a polar bear over 11 years and tagging close to 1200 polarbears.
Luckily for most of you the only likely bear trouble you might encounter is in camp, when they want to eat your grub uninvited. You will then usually have some warning of impending trouble. A well aimed well constructed .44mag. bullet will do almost any bear in. A Norwegian scientist by the name of Nils Oritsland whom I knew in the 1970's, worked on polar bears in the Svalbard Islands. He had shot 4 polar bears with his Ruger single action .44 mag and factory soft points. He found it quite effective at 10-20 yard range.

Shrike
I have spent some time talking with the polar bear darters out of Prudhoe Bay and gotten several of the same sorts of stories about the relative ease in killing polar bears. But frankly have not found blacks or browns too hard to kill generally...

But the primary point I wanted to make was the incredible teeth poar bears have and how much sharper they are than any other bears... being designed as they are for tearing meat... You were lucky!!!
art

I have processed about 15-20 polar bear skulls here. One of them being the Number 2 B&C polar bear only 1/16" shy of number one. None of them had canine or molars that are any different then a brown or black bear. I can post a photo of all the teeth of both or even all three species if needed as I have skulls of all three here in the shop now. They are so similiar infact that if they were taken out and all mixed up there would not be an easy way to determine which came from which. WIth the exception that the brownies and Polar would be bigger then a black bears.

Where will you used this in CA? Why not carry bear spray it is very effective in stopping bears, it's much lighter to carry though not as fashionably macho, it's what the rangers use and swear by in Yellowstone. I rather not carry six extra pounds of weight myself the rifle is heavy enough.

That bear spray is very effective if it is completely calm. I have had it burn the heck out of my eyes when the wind is the wrong direction. It does not take a direct hit to blind you or create difficulty seeing. I sure would not want to be charged and spray a bear only to temporarily blind myself as well. With my experience in using bear spray I would opt for the gun now. That mist comming off the main stream is enough to burn you eyes for at least an hour or more. The other issue is that the great majority of first time users will begin discharging the spray way to soon to hit the bear. by the time it close the power is gone and your empty. To Be 100% effective or nearly safe you would have to wait until the bear was within 30 feet and that is WAY to close for my taste. The arching stream and the very fast discharge is just not very confidence inspiring. For bears that have been sprayed before it's a nearly perfect deterent. Much like a skunk is after the first experience or a porcupine. Once a park bear has been sprayed it only requires the sound of the discharge, or the faint scent of the pepper to spook them. Those bears are a much different set of conditions then a pure wild grizzly who has never even seen a human before.

In anycase imagine being charged or even attacked and then also being blinded at the same time with that spray. Not for me!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Frankly, I don't consider any of my parts "less essential." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Thanx for the good story. Its also good to know that the 350 Remington can do serious damage to a Big Bear.

Great Story,

BMT

JJ
My experience with bear skulls does not begin to match yours... but I can tell a polar bear from a brown, 100% of the time, blindfolded. I am frankly shocked you do not see the difference...
art

It was not he skulls I was talking about. In your post you said it was the teeth. The Skulls are absolutely different in shape. Polar bears being much more flat and "otter" shaped then a black or brown bear. Brownies are high/taller and tend to be much wider too. However the teeth are not any different, not even a small amount. They are not sharper and they do not have more pointed canines or more sheaing type of molars. They tend to be smaller then brownies for a comparible size skull but not differently shaped. Not even a forensic anthropologist could sort through a bin of mixed teeth and tell what species they came from. I'll take a few snaps and post the differences here. I have two polar bears here right now. I have about 100 black bears and a dozen or so brown/grizzly in the shop to use for comparison.

Well I figured I would just add these photos to my post here:

These are all of Brown/griz and polar bear. None are black bears. Anybody know the 100% way of identifying a huge black bear from a medium griz skull? Guess if you like and I will tell you 100% never any doubt regardless of sex or age method.






not really the best comparison between these two as the older bears teeth are well worn. However with some consideration of age you can see they would be the same shape and "sharpness" or pointed identically.

Well this would have to be a ruger redhawk or dan wesson double action 44mag and buy garrett 44mag +p hammerhead ammo 330 gr i own a redhawk that i carry this ammo in and have taken bear with execelent results.garretts site is www.garrettcartridges.com

JJ
It is the molars that differ most... but the canines are different, too. I see the differences as huge.

"...canine teeth larger and moleriform teeth sharper than in other bears." Audobon Society field guide to NA mammals... it is more convenient than digging out the big books which give specific ratios for the different teeth as I recall.

As for the characteristic to delineate black bears from a small grizzly... I am certain someone will get it straight...
art

I don't pretend to be a cranium expert, nor a Richard cranium <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyhoo, to the question of self protection handguns for bears, this is my thought. Anyhow who is sufficiently proficient in the use of handguns to effectively use one for defense against dangerous game will come to his own conclusion.

To those that just want to pack something to feel comfortable in bear country, you're just packing extra weight and giving yourself a false sense of security. I'd venture to say the vast majority of folks who pack defensive handguns aren't proficient in their use. Heck, even though I've put some 3000 rounds through my 480, I have been so busy with work and other projects that I don't consider myself proficient with it.

Good post....

Art, the audobon text is bizzare wrong! The last photo is of a brownie and Polar bear. The Polar bear scores over an inch bigger B&C and the brown bear teeth are massivly bigger by just looking at the photo. Look at the root mass and just the whole tooth is bigger. Also Polar bear molars are far smaller then the equal brown bear, maybe as much as 1/2 the size for an equal size bear. However by design or physical function they are no more sharp or pointed. They are still big reletively flat grinding molars just like a black bear or brown bear has. With the exception of size they are the same design. As I said a big female polar bear molar and a medium male brown bear molar cannot be distinguished from one one another. Nor could the canines.

I suppose those folks writing that text have seen a few bears but I have seen hundreds too. There is without any doubt as much variation between bears of the same species as there is between between polar and brown.

I guess I'm kinda strange, but it's threads like this that awe me of the power of the internet. A simple question was asked and look at the mass of information, ideas, and experiences shared. JJ Hacks first post was a beauty. I don't know how well he types, but that post would have taken me hours. It just so happens that JJ has a couple bear skulls laying around the house and the technology to let us look at them. That's just cool to me. How fortunate are we to have someone with Shrikes experience ring in. 1200 Polar Bear encounters. If I'd had that many bear encounters I'd bee keeping Fruit of the Loom in business all by myself. This thread even has a little tasteful disagreement.

I don't post real often. If I'm typing I'm not learning. I don't often have experience relative to the topic at hand. As for this topic, I have a little. I spent three years in Kodiak. If I was fishing or hiking and did not want the burden of a longarm, I packed a Ruger Redhawk 44 magnum with a 5 1/2 inch barrel in a standard holster. I had it stoked with 300 grain factory ammo. While not ideal, I feel it was not so cumbersome as to get in the way, not so powerful as to be hard to control, and it provided the added measure of security I was looking for.

Paul

I just wanted to second Paul W.'s comment on handling a short barreled .454. I have had a 4 3/4" FA for years and have fired thousands of rounds through it. Speaking only for myself, full house 300gr bullets are almost beyond my ability to handle effectively. If I shoot it most every day and work my way into the heavy 300's, I can be passably competent. If that barrel were any shorter, I just don't think it would be within MY ability. Now when I back down to cast 270gr. Keith type Leadhead bullets, its just a fine pistol.

On another note in regards to the picture of the Clements .500 Bisley, I had David Clements convert a 1956 Ruger flattop to .44 special for me and he did a fantastic job. He is a great sixgun 'smith. I recommend his work highly.

S