Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics The Vortex Hype

I'll present you with a completely different observation. Competition shooters throughout history have driven accuracy innovations. I've heard the military has repeatedly looked to competition shooters for innovations. Target shooters have driven the accuracy game. The best out there, ones I've talked to and read about... are all talking about March scopes. Those who can afford them have them.

They are stupid expensive, carry a 1 year warranty and have to be sent back to Japan if they break. Kelby's is the only dealer in the US and people are buying them. Why? They are the sharpest clearest scopes out there, and mechanically built like a Swiss watch.

People looking for an edge are buying them. They're an unproven company, but they're building what a lot of folks consider a top product... with a premium price. I'd have one of their 60X benchrest scopes if I had $2100 for one.

Check out the benchrest pics.

http://www.deon.co.jp/march/menu2_5.htm

I can't comment on the quality of the product. However when they first hit the scene it seemed like they were paying people on various websites (other than this one) to just monitor websites and jump on anything optic related and it got to the point of being spam. I don't know if they were just really really loyal customers or paid shill. Put a bad taste in my mouth.

Are all of Vortex's models Chinese made?

The Fury series downward are Chinese. The Viper, Razor, and Kaibab are Japanese. Vortex designs the glass in their Wisconsin facility (one of the owners is a design engineer). They then contract with whatever manufacturer will give them what they want in the final product. I think they use three Chinese factories and two Japanese.

Thanks Steve, that's what I had thought.

In this day and age that seems to be the only profitable avenue to an upstart optics company. The tooling and expertise to produce your own products from scratch would be astronomical compared to farming out the work to one of the existing overseas optics factories.
One of the few exceptions would be a case like Meopta importing their own parts for their new MeoPros to be assembled here in the states.

The exact reason I haven't purchased any Votex Optics.

Fact is while Vortex might be a young company, Eagle Optics is not. Vortex is basically the hunting side of EO. EO is well known in the birding world and I assume they wanted to create a little distance between the two brands to not upset the bunny-huggers. I'd put my trust in Vortex based on my experience with EO's products.

One of the reasons alphas are so expensive is the ability to do a binocular from scratch, where you do everything in house. Some aspects are probably not as efficient as others. I suppose some things are farmed out, how much or what, I don't know. The thing is a lot of facets of binocular production could be sub-contracted and costs could come down. They are sort of in a corner there too. Imagine the outcry if some asian glass components or housings started to show up in Swarovski, Zeiss, or Leica binoculars.

As has already pointed out, the owners of Vortex seem to have quite a bit of experience in the optic industry. In addition, many of the Asian optics manufacturers (likely including some of those manufacturing the upper end Vortex products) have been producing quality optics for many, many years.
Perhaps it would be of benefit to the consumer to be informed of the history of the actual Asian manufacturer, but the large majority of consumers don't have much of a desire for that information. It's pretty much the same song and dance with many American products. We know they are made overseas, but nobody wants to talk about the details much.

To put it in perspective, Vortex binos have been on the market for quite some time now yet how many durablitity/breakage issues have you seen or heard of? They seem to be a quality made product.
As I pointed out eariler, with the top-notch warranty they carry, there wouldn't be much cause for concern for me personally.

It's hard for people to accept new as being as good or better. many feel that way because they over paid for a product or are stuck in the mentality that the more you pay for something the better it is.
I am sorry to say but the Swaro's I paid $1800 for a few years ago is the same Swaro's being sold today for $2200. So what has changed? Same bino same everything just a bigger price tag. Hell I feel screwed hearing Dennis paid $1400 for the same bins I paid $1800 for. I'd feel even worse if I paid $2200 for them. Same product for a higher price is a rip so I look for something more in my price range. If I were rich I might still be frugal and still buy Vortex or Minox or Nikon because they are that good. Maybe Vortex more thatn the other due to their warrantee. What's funny is this warrantee thing. You know Vortex makes darn good stuff if they have a warrantee like that. I mean the company would go broke if they made junk because they'd lose money on handing out replacements. So that says something for a company.
The hunting industry in general has outpriced the middle class. Everything is so expensive.
Good thing we have companies willing to try and produce quality stuff that is comparable to the best at affordable prices. If they didn't people would be stuck replacing junk year after year.
As much as you guys hate to face the fact the fact is new companies are coming out and making new stuff just as good or better than the top names.
The hype is real and vortex is the real deal. New fact to add to the fact sheet here is: Great binoculars are not just made in Europe or are made by companies a zillion years old.

Kique

MagDude, can you give me some examples of why you have stated this? Which models of each are you comparing?

"close" is a matter of opinion.
In mine, being with 10% or so of the same optical quality is pretty darn close and should only be separated by the same percentage dollar wise.

Not knocking Alpha glass at all. As a matter of fact, I just held up a set of EL's the other day and they are a quality piece. Smooth as butter. But are they worth 2 to 4 times the price of several others in the case that I compared them to? To me they are not.

My Vortex Razors in 10x42 are an outstanding bino by any standard. I have run them against my friend's Leica Geovids and can see no difference in them glassing across canyons in west Texas for Auodad.

The three Vortex Crossfire 3x9 by 40 scopes on my rifles have worked and worked well and given no problems for the 18 months I have had them. I paid a screaming 149 bucks apiece for them, lighted reticle and all, and I frankly don't need more scope on a Model 70.

To me, Vortex is most certainly not about hype. They have given me a lot of value and performance for the money I spent on their products.

Encouraging words of experience.

The obligitory response would be:

"Yeah....but just wait until the day they all fail on you....sometime....maybe....then you'll be really sorry you saved $5000+ on optics!!"

wink-wink.

Wouldn't be sorry at all, he would just send them back for repair or replcement and have them back about 10 times faster than it would take his "alphas" to gett repaired and sent back.

Funny thing that is, if the alphas are so wonderful why with some of the alpha companys does it take what seems like forever and a day to could work done. I mean they are so reliable that they should have just a few pairs in the shop for repair, they should be able to get them out likety split, don't you think?

All that said, I carry Leica Ulravids, but I'm smart enough to know that I'm not whoopin' my buddies asses that carry Vipers and Razors just because I have the MIGHTY Leicas. In fact when I look through their top end Vortx products they carry I'm glad I got my Ultravids from Doug att a screaming low price, because otherwise I might feel like I really got screwed.

Bill

The reason is the quantum leap in technology. It used to take years to design a group of lenses to do a job but now with the modeling software and computer power available a company can design and test many models in a virtual reality before building a prototype. Look at the aircraft and missile industry.

Ill only add that I used Vortex Customer service once and was blown away with the treatment I got, I got a return phone call from someone who discussed my problem with me and explained what might be wrong with the product and instead of repairing it they sent me a brand new replacement. I sent the item in and got the phone call and received the new replacement within a week total! I may try one of their riflescopes now.

This has been an intersting thread;......Nothing sounds more appealing than the notion that a guy can get something for nothing,or said another way,that he can get equal quality for less money.

This is simply not so because the world is not made that way......somewhere along the line,if you pay less,you get less,whether in the materials,parts,assembly,lense quality ruggedness,durability,resolution,brightness.....something has to give,be a compromise,somewhere along the line;otherwise the intermediate product has to cost more at some point.

This is not to say that the less expensive item cannot be serviceable,cannot do a good job,and maybe when it comes to rifle scopes or binoculars,maybe last long enough and be serviceable enough,for those who maybe do not subject the item to as much abuse......but I find it interesting that,even in the wake of all the new technology,you do not see Special Forces,or CIA,or other elite professional shooters,pining for for Vortex or other Pacific Rim products,at least as far as I know....I have been wrong before.....

Manufacturers warranties are utterly meaningless to me....if an important optical instrument fails me ,in the field, I will send it back, get it fixed or replaced,and promptly dump it....if I am upset enough, I will throw it away on the spot,and never think twice what it costs.

And I will not buy that manufacturers product again.....to my way of thinking if the item does not perform,fails you at an important, critical juncture of a hunt,it is worthless,of no value whatsoever.....to my way of thinking it should not fail to do the things I bought it to do.

It is impossible to quantify gear performance based on theoretical percentages.....on a hunt, you can either see to aim or you can't.......the scope holds zero or it doesn't.....it takes the bumps and bruises or it breaks....the binocular either shows you the buck bedded a mile away,or it doesn't........whatever it costs.

Rant over and read what you want into it.....JMHO and YMMV

Bob, I can guarantee you that some Zeiss, Leica and Swaro have failed in the field. I myself had to send my Ultravid BRs in to Leica for a fix on the focus wheel, it took four and half months to get them back. I'm good friends with the optics nut, owner of my local sporting goods store, and he has told me he has had all three brands returned for repair, some were damaged, others simply failed one way or another. I sure wish Leica had responded the way I hear Vortex has. Now I am happy to report that Leica has cleaned up their act in the warranty department, but they aren't infallable.

In general I agree that there is no free lunch, but in this case there may be other reasons, such as lower overhead, lower production cost (Chinese versus German labor cost), saving on R&D cost by either reverse engineering a known design, or just using the latest CAD-CAM desgn process. None of those factors would necessarily lead to an inferior, less robust product.

Bob, you clearly have more money than some of us if you never have to think twice what it cost. Most folks, especially in these hard economic times don't have that luxery. I personally own a pair of Ultravids, and probably won't sell them, but I'm considereing a pair of the 7x36 Zen Rays to be my do everything bin.

John

I understand what you are saying but in todays world nothing is made perfect and I pretty much expect problems. If those problems occur Its nice to have good customer service to back it up. I have read where some people have had their $2000.00 Swarovskis develop problems and they sent them in to get them fixed by their exceptional customer service. I seriously doubt they just threw them away.