Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Model 70 vs Mauser 98?

Oldman 1942,
Your computer is quoting old standards that no longer exist, but one could shoot .422 bullets in a 404 Jefferys I suppose, but since nobody makes .422 bullets and everyone uses .423 bullets in the 404, your quote is quite worthless and outdated..The .404 is .423 and .423 bullets are way more available than .41l bullets..

I shoot the 450-400-3" and its a .411 bore and bullets are only available from North Fork at times, Woodleigh and GS Customs and maybe a few others?...

I also shoot the 404 Jefferys with .423 bullets and .423 bullets are available from GS Customs, Northfork, Woodleigh, Barnes, Swift, Hornady, Horneber, Hawk, Kodiak, several European companies, just to name a few, and you can even get 450 gr. softs and solids in 423 bullets from Woodleigh.

As to popularity, the 404 has become considerably more popular in the last 10 years with many custom guns being built and in fact the .404 Jefferys can be had in CZ, the Ruger No. 1 with a special run, Several European manufacturers now offer the .404, and at least one African co. will make you one. On ocassion you can even find a original FN...I recently sold a nice FN 404 Jefferys.

With all respect, your mistaken and somewhat uninformed.

Idahoguy,
I suppose your right, but then one could say the same thing about any cartridge such as the 416 Ruger and 416 Rem are better choices than any wildcat .40 caliber including the .416 Taylor.

In fact one could make a pretty good arguement for the .416 Ruger to put all the other 40 calibers out of business, but of course that will never happen, I don't think!

The .404 has some definate attributes in that its a big old case and one can safely get 2650 FPS with a 400 gr. bullet in a good modern bolt gun with 95 grs. of IMR-4831. It has almost the powder capacity of the 416 Rigby or 416 Wby in fact, but most real 404 buffs shoot them at 2400 FPS as the accepted standard including yours truly. It also has a wider cross section than the 416s and that arguealby makes a difference in "knockdown", and I agree witht that with the big slow African rounds, just a bit more cross sections seems to visably make a difference, much more so than added velocity, but only on the big stuff..

Probably the real ambiance of the .404 and what keeps its heart beating year after year is a wonderful warm and fuzzy feeling by some called "nostalgia"..I feel for anyone that does not have such a feeling, they miss a lot out of life!

Some even shoot the 404 at its original 2150 FPS, as that is the load that it was born with, later RWS increased it to 2300 FPS and it then became the darling of most game depts of the 40s and 50s. but I see little reason to slow it down to those old specs in a good mondern gun or even an origingal Jefferys or good Mauser...

As far as killing power, I see little difference in any of the big bore 40 calibers and over until you get to the .470 or .500 N.E. and I'll add perhaps to that one. I have always been content with the most practical of all, the .416 Rem.

Ray Atkinson,

I was thinking of the available reloading supplies for the .416 Taylor. It was a mental exercise in mechanical logic. Versus the difficulty and expense Americans may have getting .404 Jeffrey components or loaded ammo from European sources.

As we say, I have no dog in this fight. Where we hunt local in Idaho I have a .30/06, a 7mm Mauser, or 300 Savage to chose from. But more options are always nice. Animals DRT are always good.

IF... I ever get to Africa the gun and ammo will be a lesser expense than the rest of the trip.

Has the .416 Ruger been shipped to dealers? Ruger talks big but has delays and recalls on new products. Then there is getting the ammo. Ruger has got their .375 off to a good start in North America. I'll wait and see on their .416

The best rifle I ever owned was a Belgium Browning built on an FN Supreme Mauser action. After it everything else was downhill and like a fool I sold it decades ago. Some of the old (read pre '64) Winchesters required a little smoothing up and maybe trigger work to make them what they should and could be. Still a great choice if you don't mind wing safeties.

In reality I don't think, at least within reason, that ease of getting brass and even cost of brass is much of an issue with big bores. Less shots are fired and in general pressure is lower because you are not chasing the last 10 f/s and hence brass life is long. The latter is very much the case with the bigger cases like 404 and 416 Rigby where the target velocity is well below their full potential.

Ray what would you build on a Mauser action for Africa? What med. bore would work the best?