Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Opinions on the 6.5x55BJAI

I can believe a 13.7% increase in CAPACITY.

I knew the 6.5X55 Improved vs 6.5-284 would spark some interesting debate, so to settle the velocity issue here is a link to the origional post about Ackley cartridge ranking.

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=5813

Along with other internet forum posts I have read several times where comparisons for similarity between the 6.5X55 B.J.A.I. and 6.5-285 are refrenced.

Jeff, send me a pm for load data it will be a fat envelope.

The FACTORY 6.5x55 is loaded to a maximum average SAAMI pressure of 51,000psi in deference to the M96 rifle it is often chambered in.

At SAAMI pressure 2550fps is about the best you can hope for.

Now if we take the same standard 6.5x55 and load it for a strong, modern action up to say 61,000psi like Nosler did for Nosler #6 then the standard size 6.5x55 gets to 2800fps.

If, like your linked thread says, the 6.5x55AI gets up to 2900fps then it is not loaded to SAAMI pressures but instead to Nosler #6 type pressures.

The velocity increase, WHEN LOADED TO SIMILAR PRESSURE, is nothing like 13.7%.

I realize that PO Ackley didn't do the 6.5x55, but many, if not most, of the loads listed in Ackley's reloading manual for his "improved" cartridges have been tested in pressure barrels and have been found to be significantly over pressure.

There is no magic case shape and increased capacity, while the only way to get higher velocity, has much smaller returns in velocity than the increase in charge weight.

The velocity data in the link you've provided obviously isn't an "apples to apples" comparison, pressure wise. The standard 6.5x55 velocity of 2500 fps with a 140 grain bullet is obviously not loaded to the same pressure levels as the 6.5x55BJAI at 2900 fps. Most maximum recommended loading data is set for the most common rifle with the lowest strength that is chambered for a particular cartridge. In the case of the 6.5x55, that rifle is probably the single locking lug Norwegian Krag.

I have loaded for the 6.5x55 for over 25 years and can get 2800 fps with a 140 grain BT from a 22" barrel at safe pressures. While it is not a load that I would use in the Krag, I'm confident that it is safe in my Remington 700s, Ruger #1 RSI, Surplus Mausers, and Winchester/USRA 70.

The velocity claims cited in the link you provided are typical P.O. Ackley type claims that don't include pressure data and a recitation of the non-scientific mantra of "pressure doesn't matter, the effects of pressure matter". Pressure does matter and although the minimal case taper and sharper shoulder of the AI case design does have a positive impact on brass flow, if you produce enough pressure you will get brass flow and if you do is repeatedly, you will eventual get case separation.

Although I don't know what the case capacity of the 6.5x55BJAI is, it can't be greater than the 6.5-284, since both cases have the same OAL and the 284 case has a larger diameter. Given that assumption, I'd expect the 6.5x55AI to show about a 100 to 150 fps advantage over the standard 6.5x55 if all other variable factors are equal.

Jeff

260RemGuy, I think we said exactly the same thing here.

I think BobtheNailer will now get the distinction.

We did.

I started writing my post before you'd written your post, then I had to take my Son to school and hit the store for the fixin's for southwestern chicken and green pepper soup. Early dinner today, UNO hockey playoffs start tonight!

Jeff

You guys are too much! Thanks.

Question ... I have a 1896 Swedish carbine mauser with good 'ol Carl's name stamped on it. What are the higher loads that I can start with and build up to (maybe)?

Jeff

I recommend that you go to www.hodgdon.com and use their "tested" load data.

IMO, the 1894/1896/1938 small-ring Swedish built Mausers are the best pre-1898 style military actions to build on. Their faults are that they don't have the larger gas shield on the bolt shroud and they don't have a 3rd/auxillary locking lug.

The gas shield is easy to address, as both Brownell's and MidwayUSA sell a commercial style bolt shroud with a larger gas shield. The 3rd/auxillary locking lug is really a non-issue, for me, since I have NEVER seen a Mauser shear 1 locking lug, let alone 2 locking lugs.

The Swedish Mausers have long throats, so mine do better with longer/heavier bullets in the 140 to 160 grain range. Mine are SN 1067xx, 1971xx, 4631xx, and 6515xx. My sporterized Norwegian Krag is SN 921xx. I think that all 5 of these rifles are safe to shoot using the Hodgdon data, with Sweds at or above the recommend maximums, and the Krag at the starting to mid-point recommended loads.

Jeff

I would agree with Hodgdons.

Nosler 6 specifically states that the loads listed are for strong, modern rifles.

That being said the Swedes can probably handle those higher pressure loads all day but with the way that the 6.5's kill the regular SAAMI spec loads will work just fine and the rifle will be much happier.

On the Mauser, I'd err caution for the fine '94-96 just because, as it lacks the 'insurance' features of other designs.

That said, Perhaps PO did not want to try messing w/something that was not broken

If I wanted 6.5/284 performance, a 55AI is not a bad way to go, and Lapua brass would be my platform to start.

To Jeff's point on shearing off a lug, I personally had a striker slam rearward after bottoming out hard enough to crack ALL the threads on the bolt holding it in. I was lucky that striker did not exit the back of my head.

Hence my caution. I was using reformed 270 and 25-06 Hornady brass back then 15 years or more ago, and they were not reamed/turned. OD was .310, spec is .297 max, so I was 'crimping' my loads unknowningly to me, until I had Catastrophic Case failure.

It shook me up so bad I sold all mine. That was one of 3, so it got a new bolt, and re-headspaced before I sold it.

I would personally pick a 98 action, if not a Borden.

A Sako Finnlight, the newer ones w/24" or so bbl would be the cat's meow I think, set in a Mickey Stock.

Enjoy whatever you build, never had a bad 6.5mm.

You're just a WUSSY when it come to high pressure in boardline actions!

;-)

Jeff

Ouch 65BR! Good to know you're still with us.

I'm getting a lot of pm request for Bob Jourdan's loads he sent me some years back. I talked with Bob on the phone and you could not find a nicer more helpful gentleman.

These are Bob's loads, they worked for his rifle.
Your rifle may be different.

6.5x55 BJ Ackley Improved 40 Degree

M98 Custom Mauser, 27" Barrel (see notes)
Sako AV, 24" Barrel (see notes)
by Bob jourdan, 1997 update

120 gr.
IMR4895 45.0 3,111 47.0 3,214 27" Near Max.
IMR4064 44.0 3,034
AA2700..48.0 3,042 51.0 3,225
AA4350..49.0 3,085 51.0 3,195 Max.
H414....51.0 3,143 54.0 3,326 Max most accurate
H4831...54.0 3,090 57.0 3,246 Compressed
IMR 7828 55.0 3,153

I'll get the 129 and 140 data later I've got to pick up a Sako.

...

Go ahead and list the data. I'll go pick up that Sako for ya. lol.

I will tell you what gives alot of extra speed in the Swede, use a longer bbl than std. sporter. My 96 w/29.1 gave a marked increase in speed. Not that I wanted to tote it, my 24" sporterized got right at 100 fps more than my 21" gun.

Figure 25-26" if you want to get top performance in that round, AI or not. More is better if speed is a requirement, me, I never needed the extra speed and prefer the handling of a 22-23" bbl which I think is perfect.

Longarch, Yes I felt very fortunate to survive that boo boo and realized to pay attention to the little bitty details, and to stop reforming brass. Now there is an abundance of Swede brass in the USA to be had and that is great.

Jeff, I do say the workmanship on the Swedes is great, and if anything the steel is a tad soft, a good thing, it can give w/o being brittle and blow like a P-17 Enfield, or some of those models.

260Remguy, nsaqam, I have no doubts about more velocity equals more pressure. The link was wrote by Bob Jourdan in 2003 and is one of many articles wrote about the 6.5X55 Improved case, others are PS magazine May 2002 which compairs the 6.5X55 Vais to the 6.5-284 claiming them to be "ballistic twins" and again in PS magazine Aug. '92 another Bob Jourdan write up compairing the two cartridges. Dr E.L. Arch also did extensive testing of the cartridge with excellent results, yes.. twist rates, powder, barrel length and bullets used will all effect the results as we all know however the 6.5X55 B.J.A.I. is no underdog by anymeans. The benifits are proven with a Improved cartridge and loads don't need to be at the max to obtain supurb accuracy. I built my 6.5 on a Swede M96 military action that was sportorized and have had no issues with pressure signs. Accuracy was excellent even during fire forming with 85grn bullets.

I was just funnin' ya! Didn't you see the ";-)"?

I'm known as "Mr. Conservative" among my circle of reloading friends.

Jeff

A special thanks to nsaqam for working with me on some brass and to SU35 and Bobthenailer for the literature. To the rest, thanks for helping me make the best decision for me with all your comments.

I know Jeff, but I do take the safety issue seriously, as the POTENTIAL for disaster is not immune to any action etc. but all the right conditions happened, or WRONG for me, and it almost got me killed or seriously hurt.

That said, I know I am the exception when it comes to Swede mausers and it was the handloading oversight that was the blame.

I do think the AI case is supposed to be better supported in chamber and have less backthrust so it's said, esp. when concerning TC Contenders where backthrust can be an issue in certain rounds w/certain head size. SO it is that pressure signs may develop differently or some not at all, I don't know, but I do like the AI Swede for the purposes most use it. In a good rifle it should be HIGHLY capable.

Just look at what the STANDARD Swede did at 1,000 yds.

Factory rifle none the less

I have to admit I took a liking to the Tikka M595 Continental. It's a handsome and well-made rifle with a slick action. Accuracy was very good, as seems to be a trait of Tikka rifles. This can be seen in the fact the 1999 British Long-Range Benchrest Championship was won by a Tikka Continental in 6.5x55. Group size was an almost unbelievable 10 rounds into 4.4 inches at 1,000 yards. Anyone looking for an accurate out-of-the-box varmint rifle would do well to consider a Tikka.

pg 3 http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_2_49/ai_95680073/pg_3/?tag=content;col1

I had a 6.5 x 55 AI installed on my F-class rig for windy 600 yards and 1,00 yard competitions. 28" Brux, on a Stiller Predator short action cut with my PTG reamer, the rig is a switch barrel. Jim Kobe did the barrel work, The work was done early January and has been a great rifle to shoot and has proven to be very competitive.

Yes the SA Stiller will just barely eject loaded rounds although as an F-class gun this is a rare event. The bolt face did not have to be altered for lapua brass.

I get 3,050 fps 139 Scenars, H4831sc, and Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers, with 0.5 MOA 5 shot groups measured on a electronic target at 300 meters. Finding great loads with this gun took about 3 hours at the range. The fireforming rounds were also very competitive, 48 g H4831SC with the same combo listed above.

In short I like the round and gun combo.