Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Dogzapper---.25-06?

Steve,
Several times, you have mentioned a certain .25-06 as being one of your currently most-used rifles for big game. Tell me about it and the load(s) you use in it. Thanks, RS

Yeah, I'm planning on building a 25-06 regular or AI sometime in the future, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Hey Rip,

As far as I am concerned, the .25-'06 has antelope written all over it. Yeah, you can kill 'em with larger cartridges and smaller cartridges. When you get serious about antelope, and they are my favorite big game animal, the BIG .25s, the .25-'06 and the .257 Weatherby will really reach out there and swat the goats.

Actually, I've killed a number of Montana mule deer and a few big northern whitetails (Alberta) with the .25-'06 and it is a sure killer on them, as well.

My bullet of choice is the 100-grain Ballistic Tip and my Pac-Nor barrel simply dotes on 58.0 grains of RL-22. Muzzle velocity is very slightly over 3,500 fps. Sighted 2" high at 100, it is a long ways out there before it requires significant holdover.

The load is probably hot, but I can fire a single Winchester case ten times and the primer pocket is still tight. No extraction problems. Safe in my rifle, but you should work it up in your individual rifle barrel. There, now I said all the legal stuff.

Typically, I shoot goats about 5" to 6" behind the shoulder crease, to save the shoulders. The entrance hole is one-inch with a one-inch ring of bloodshot. The exit hole is two-inches, with a one-inch ring of bloodshot. The heart is almost always de-bagged by the passage of the bullet (happened four times out of four goats we shot this year) and the lungs are total dogmeat.

I simply cannot think of a better antelope combination. If we draw Montana goat tags again next year, the .25-'06 and 100-grain Ballistics will be precisely the combination we will use.

Frankly, and lots of very experienced hunters will disagree, I've had much better killing with the both the 100-grain Hornady Spire and the 100-grain Ballistic than the various 117- and 120-grain bullets. Heck, you can totally penetrate a big northern whitetai, from midline (at the diaphram) to the far shoulder with the 100s and they are DEAD.

Anyway, you wanted my thoughts.....and you got 'em. Love the heck out of the .25-'06, my friend.

Steve

I admit I have never owned or hunted with a 25-06 but I have a couple friends who do and the report the same thing you do: 100gr bullets work the best. Both prefer Speer Hot Cores to your Ballistic Tips but maybe they haven't shot the BT's.

I just don't know about Ballistic Tips. I hear all the time both sides of the arguement. They kill and penetrate or the blow up and wound. Leaves me scratching my head. I've shot boxes of them in about every rifle I own because they are accurate, but I have never killed biggame with them. I've seen them blow small holes in a coyote with 150 BT's from my m88 308 Win. The velocity from 44grs H4895 runs them about 2700fps. The small exit hole on a coyote tells be they would work fine on deer. To me, coyotes are a good inditator on terminal ballistics: If they leave a realitive small exit hole in a coyote, they would make a good hunting bullet. If they leave big holes in coyotes, then they might be prone to violent expansion on biggame. I use this theory but realize it has holes, for a 130gr Partion will nearly cut a yote in half from my 270 if the range is close, yet they do shoot through most broadside deer.

I have often contemplates using more Ballistic Tips on game to find for myself.

CM

Combineman,

The Ballistic Tips have gone through several "generations." What was true ten years ago was wrong five years ago. A person who found the BTs to be "soft" five years ago would not find it so today. The BTs of today work very well.

It is a good idea to NOT hit a big game animal with a terminal velocity exceeding 3,000 fps with a Ballistic Tip, but if a critter is that close, I'll head or neck shoot him anyway.

Karen and I harvested this years four antelope at 306, 321, 322 and 359 yards. This is pretty typical of our prairie ranges on goats.

Antelope have the reputation of being easy to kill.....just ask anyone who hasn't killed a dozen or so <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Those of us who have shot a bunch of them surely know that they are tough little critters and we need to really get their attention with a bullet.

Actually, the Speer 100-grain is a heck of a bullet. For some reason, the Speer doesn't have the reputation among hunters, but they are excellent game-getters.

Steve

I just wanted to chip in with an echo of agreement with Dogzapper. I too have used the 25-06/100 gr. BT combination with great success. Over the years I've had many people tell me that the 100BT is too light, too fast, or not built well enough. Despite that my 25 has an impeccible record on a few antelope, and a modest amount of BIG deer, with large body weights. I think it has to with the precision of the bullet, comfort with recoil, and efficiency of the bullet weight/powder cap. The ballistic tips have always performed well and cleanly killed the game. I even performed a test involving a bowling ball after I was told that ballistic tips don't penetrate. Kind of a stupid test I know, but the results were amazing to me. Great caliber, great bullet.
Scott

ScottM:

You write: "I even performed a test involving a bowling ball after I was told that ballistic tips don't penetrate. Kind of a stupid test I know, but the results were amazing to me."

Tell us more man, don't leave it hanging!

BMT

Steve, I love my 25-06 as well, a win 70 with a shilen douglas stainless barrel at 24". originally, I shot 120 partitions, switched to 115 partitions and recently bought a box of 117 hornady sst as my powder scale was wacking out on me. shout a nice deer with the 117 sst last weekend (that's a different story). I have never been disappointed in the 25-06 and it is a real joy to shoot. I have used the 100 gr hornady in the 240 weatherby and it is an excellent bullet. as much as I like the 240, it is so similar to the 25-06 that it is a bit redundant. have you ever tried the 120 hornady hp?

,257Bob,

I've shot the 120 Hornady HP at the range and it shoots very well. Never have gotten around to killing any deer/antelope with it.

I HAVE killed several deer and antelope with the 120 Nosler Partition. They take the bullet and either waddle off (or run off) and die thirty seconds later. Thirty seconds can put an antelope three hundred yards away and if we are in canyon country a deer can get tough to recover.

The 100s, either Ballistic Tip or Hornady Spire, simply ELECTROCUTE the critters. Hey, we get absolutely total penetration, holes through both sides, regardless of the angle, so I see absolutely no reason for a heavier bullet than the 100.

Speed kills.

Steve

Steve, I am looking for education here on this subject. wouldn't a heavier bullet, in the same construction - say a 117 hornady spire point vs a 100 hsp, penetrate further? I really don't know the answer here but I wish I had bought the 120 rem ck instead of the 117 sst last week. results ended up ok but I have lost a bit of confidence in the sst. I loaded some hhps and they grouped to the same point of impact as the factory sst. I really need to shoot a deer with the hhp.

thanks for the help.

jim

Jim,

I have never, ever recovered a 100-grain Ballistic Tip or 100-grain Hornady from an antelope or a deer. I've used the .25-06 and Karen uses her .250 Ackley and the bullets sail through every time.

Heck, Karen even killed a couple of elk with her lowly .250 Ackley and 100-grain Ballistics. Lung shots with a two-inch exit hole out the far ribs.

I guess my question is as follows: How much penetration does a bullet need, granted that it has good construction? One of my antelope does this year was weirdly positioned. It was kind of a bank shot and she was feeding. Because of the angle, I shot her waaaay behind the shoulder and the bullet exited a few inches behind the ear. The bullet entered at the diaphram, coursed the body, ran the neck and popped out. Two-inch exit and not a lot of meat loss. Perfect.

I really expected the 100 Ballistic to stop in the neck, but it kept on cutting through meat (broke the neck bone too). Anyway, I'm a believer and this experience (and a bunch in the past) have me convinced that 100s are the way to go.

Yeah, I suppose, in theory, that the heavier bullet would penetrate further than lighter bullets. BUT (big but) don't forget that the velocity is lower on the heavies and, depending on the bullet construction, that might also affect penetration.

One of the things I really like about the 100s is that they shoot considerably flatter than the 117s and 120s. We get a lot of open country, way the heck across the prairie shots, here in the West and a flat trajectory is a great aid in hitting.

Have no doubt that the 100 Ballistic and the 100 Hornady Spire are freaking killers.

Hope this helps.

Steve

While I have killed quite a few antelope and truck loads of deer, my experience with .25 BT's is limited to this season. I killed 3 lopes and 1 whitetail with the 100gr BT's. All were one shot kills. Two were "dead right now" and the other two animals sprinted dead on their feet, but were spraying blood all over the country side. I was very impressed and plan to do even more hunting with my .257 Weatherby next year using the same .25 100gr BT's. My 257 Weatherby is unfortunately very heavy. I enjoyed the bullet performance so much this year that I'm thinking real hard on having a light "carry rifle" built in .257 Weatherby.

Friend Big Sky,

Great minds think in the same gutter. I'm contemplating a light, say 8 to 8�-pound field ready, .257 Weatherby. Of course, built for the 100-grain Ballistic.

I hear you about the entertainment value. My horned doe was larger than either of our bucks. Huge. Anyway, I shot her through both lungs at 359 yards and she started running in a very tight circle. Her buddy, another large doe, was running right along-side. They looked like two race horses, each trying to get ahead of the other. My holed doe was spurting blood out both sides like a fire-hose and blowing blood all over her buddy.

Finally the doe died, after running two or three circuits of the 30 yard circle and collapsed in a cloud of dust....all four feet in the air. The other doe stopped and looked at her, wondering why the fun race was over.

I looked at the remaining doe through the scope and she must have had two gallons of blood splashed on her side and back. It was then that I commenced laughing.

I'm sorry, Big Sky, I totally lost it. I was laughing so damned hard that my belly hurt and I was in severe danger of pissing myself. All the time, my bride of forty years is yelling, "Kill the other one, kill the other one, it's standing right there."

Heck, I couldn't have whacked the remaining doe if my life depended on it. My bride, of course, thought I was an idiot, but soon she was out of control, as well.

After a couple of minutes, the other doe wandered off. Surprisingly, she was the doe that we shot a couple of hours later, as we were slipping and sliding out in the rain and inch-deep gumbo. That was the diaphram-to-ear shot that I described earlier. She still had blood on her side and it was the opposite side from the one where I planted the bullet.

Gad, how would I ever write about this in one of the gun funnybooks? No editor would publish it and the majority of Blue State readers would think I am a whacko. You, being a correct-thinking Montana fella, can totally understand and laugh right along with me. Gad, it is too precious not to share. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, the 100 Ballistic is definitely worth the entertainment value. Heck of a great bullet and an absolute stone killer.

Steve

i shot a muley doe with a 115 BT this year. it she gave up the ghost right there on the spot. im really impressed with the 25-06, its got a lot of jam for little buck. need to use it more next year. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Those are exactly the same results I get on Texas Whitetails with my 25-06 and 100 gr Sierra bullets.

When I was remodeling a home I found an old bowling ball that had been left behind. Since I'm not an avid bowler the first thing that came to mind was "what would a bullet do to this?" I took the ball to the gravel pit and set it out to 75 yards. Having been told that BT's blow up at close yardages I was curious what it would do. By the way I agree with being careful on game at close range with high velocity . I shot my 25-06 with 100gr BT's, a 270 with 140 SST's, and my 300 WM with 190gr Sierra HPBT's.
Penetration= 100BT's: 3.75 in., 140 SST's: 2 in., 190 HPBT's 3.5 in.
The only bullet I weighed after was the BT. Given there was some molten material in it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, but it retained approx. 67% It was the second shot into the ball and it cracked the damn ball. Like lightning struck. Have you guys ever seen the inside of a bowling ball. I don't know what it is, but it is dense!
Maybe the results were because of the order I shot, or the proximity to the finger holes, I don't know.
This was not a scientific test, just an addition to your "Gee Whiz" collection. The results really surprised me and I have little or no explanation. It sure was fun though.

Scott,

I think that sometimes certain bullets suprise us in performance. Sounds like them BT's do shoot good in the 25 cal. I will add that a friend of mine once told me he shot a bowling ball with his 300 Savage and a 180gr Nos. Partition and it penetrated over 6 inches and stayed together into what looked like a picture perfect mushroom.

I've always wanted to punch through a bowling ball with a 350gr Hard Cast LBT from my 45 Colt Linebaugh sixgun to see if I can do it. I shot right through a buffalo bull once and that bullet zoomed right through and made a metal sounding clank when it hit a metal gate. The Buff got up on his tippy toes for half an eye blink then fell over. I watched the same friend shoot another buff with a 310gr Keith style SWC cast bullet from his 45 Colt. The buff was face on and took the bullet just clipping his chin, entering the neck, reducing 2 feet of buffalo vertebrea to bone puzzle, through the chest (lungs), through the paunch (no 7mag in the world will make it through the paunch of a buffalo) and through the round steaks, stopping just under the hide about a foot below his ying yang. The was the deadest buffalo you ever saw fall to the ground.

So, I tend to compare all penetraion qualities to what I see good hard cast bullets do out of a good sixgun. Still not too impressed with high velocity rifle rounds.

CM

Combineman

That is some impressive terminal performance on the 45's. Off the 25 subject, but what are you shooting these hot loads out of (revolver, lever, singleshot)?. Very interested. I have little experience with heavy hunting type cast bullets but love the 45 Colt. I have a beautiful 1873 lever that won't allow me to shoot the heavy loads but have been curious about getting another to do just the type of hunting you're talking about.

Back to the 25 though, I tend to agree each caliber has a "sweet spot" when it comes to bullet weight. My 250AI thrives on the 100 BT also. They both handle other weights well, but there seems to be a niche for the 100's. It has been the most well balanced combination for me.


PS-My money would be on the 350 hardcasts moving the bowling ball more than penetrating through it. You would know more than I. A fun thought. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I own 4 45 Colt sixguns, all of the Rugers and one is a custom Linebaugh built SBH Ruger.

It is hard for many to beleive the potential of a heavy cast bullet shot out of a sixgun. I was sold into "sixgun slavery" about 14 years ago. The friend I mentioned is close friends to John Linebaugh, the custom gunsmith who have us the real potential of the 45 Colt (Dick Casual did much for us too) and also gave us the 475 and 500 Linebaugh rounds.

Your right, to see this potential, one must have a good sound gun. The 45 needs good sixguns like the Ruger to safely handle heavy loads.

I can run 325gr and 350gr Cast bullets from my 4 3/4" or 5.5" Ruger Single Actions over 1200fps without trouble or effort. I have been running 405gr Cast bullet at 1000fps. I know it seemd they would just push the bowling ball away. I doubt it would but like I said, I want to try. They will shoot through a log cabin at half a mile though. That I have seen. (the log cabin was abandoned incase you were wondering)

No kidding. One must see it to really beleive it.


Back to the real subject: I have thought about a 257 Weatherby Vanguard (as I own a 300 Weatherby Vanguard). Is it going to gain me much over the 25-06 given the weatherby only has a 24" barrel? I've been thinking about picking up a 25 cal as a pick up rifle for Idaho. Mostly I pick off distant cats off haystacks and the 243 and 22-250 doesn't hold up in the wind. I'd also like enough gun for distant yotes.

So many guns and so little money.

CM

Well I like my 25/06, used it since the start of the 80's, and have mostly used 117 and 120 grain bullets.
I think I will have to try the 100 grainers and see how she likes them.
But it is one of my favourite ones, right up there with my 270 Win.

Dogzapper, that was great. I appreciate you sharing that little tale. I can more than relate. I had a similar thing happen with the first antelope doe I shot this year. I had put a good long sneak on a herd of lopes. At about 225 yards the cover ran out and it was time to start filling tags. First, I shot the buck right in his bed and he never moved. The herd ran off about 50 yards and looked back at the buck to see why he wasn't joining them. I picked out a large doe and shot her tight behind the shoulder. She took off at a sprint. She was blowing hard just like you described in your doe race. The onliest problem was she started making an arc and headed on a bee-line for me. When they are running that hard they can cover 200 yards amazingly fast. I had her in my scope and could see blood pumping out of both sides as she closed the distance. At first I was entranced, which shortly gave way to some serious concern for my well being. She was really moving and getting so close it was hard to keep her in the scope. I'm thinking, "I'm going to have to shoot her again in self defense", but at 12X that was darn near impossible. I just relented to the fact I was about to be run over. About that time she took a nose dive and rolled to a stop less than 10 yards from the end of my barrel. Thank goodness...I mean how do you explain to anyone that you were charged and run over by a doe antelope? Considering all the things I enjoy hunting that bite back, it would be awful embarrassing to be done in by a doe antelope.

Heck, Sky 10yds from the end of that barrel still offers plenty of a safety margin...like 20yds <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for sharing the story.

Dzapper, You've got a great load and cartridge there. I use the same in mine. But, I only trust the Ballistic Tips for Antelope. They are small critters, and don't require the penetration that a deer would. That being said, I have a friend who has taken a dozen Elk with his 25-06 using 120 grn. Partitions, and couldn't be happier with the results. It's a hell of a game getter, if you use the right bullets. Good hunting to you sir!

Thanks Steve, in reality, most of my shots are from 40-150 yards with most under 100 yards. As previously mentioned, I really look for an exit wound as not all deer drop where shot and I may need a little blood to aid tracking, my place is a thick mess.

Steve,
You are preaching to the choir when you tell me about the "killability" of the .25-06. I'm with you on the 100gr. Hornady Interlock also; I've never recovered one from a deer or antelope.
When I asked about your .25-06, I meant the actual rifle that you use. Action? Length of the Pac-Nor barrel? Trigger and pull weight? Stock? Gunsmith? Scope? Total weight? Type of finish? Any special bells&whistles?
Details, man. I need details! RS

Hey Rip,

My .25-'06 is a Remington 700 that was built by John Lewis at Carolina Precision Rifles. Actually, it was originally a .338-06 Ackley and I later had it barreled to .25-'06.

CPR blueprinted the action and had the action, blueprinted Remington trigger and floor plate assembly hard-chromed. These were the days before stainless and I perfer hard chrome to stainless, anyway (harder, no galling and SLICKER). CPR pillar-bedded the McMillan black-painted stock.

Later, I had it fitted with a 24-inch Pac-Nor three-contour barrel. Now, here is where the weird part comes in; Chris at Pac-Nor had a barrel turn out strange, it was an inadvertant gain-twist. He was curious and sent it to a company called Barrel Scan, Inc. The report came back that it had an 11" twist at the breech and a 9"twist at the muzzle. The gain in twist-rate is an absolute straight line.

Anyway, Chris said "Try it, if it isn't satisfactory, I'll replace it." So I did.

I will have to say that the "inadvertant gain-twist" Pac-Nor is the fastest, easiest to clean, most accurate .257" barrel I have ever used. Most barrels (excuse me) are downright female; they piss and moan until you give them what they want. My Pac-Nor is a BOY barrel; hey, any load, any bullet is just fine with it and it plants 'em all in one spot. I like boy barrels.

The trigger is a blueprinted Remington factory one that has been hard-chromed. Breaks at 3�-pounds like an icicle; it is set heavy because I do a lot of cold weather work and I don't like surprises.

The scope is a Leupold VariX-III 4.5-14 AO with a dine Duplex. I'll replace it with a VX-III 4.5-14 with the Boone & Crockett reticle (my design, by the way) before next hunting season.

The scope mounts are Leupold QRs and low rings. Yes, I carry an extra zeroed scope, not that I have ever needed it.

The weight is about nine-pounds, complete with a mag of ammo, Harris L-S bipod and a Quaker Boy sling that I stole off of a Browning turkey gun on one of their hunts (Scott Grange looked the other way and I LOVE that ugly rubber carrying strap).

Goodness knows how many critters have died to the CPR/Pac-Nor .25-'06. Lots. I have never missed with it and I've never shot twice. Karen calls it my "AT&T rifle because it "Reaches out and touches critters."

Karen used it this year; she had doubts about her .250 Ackley's ability to kill a good antelope buck we had spotted at 306 yards. We traded rifles, she flipped down the bipod, cuddled into a hillock and asked where to hold. I said, "Right on." Scratch one nice antelope buck!!!

Good rifle.

Steve

Steve,
Lots of things in your post were interesting.
I like the idea of hard-chroming the action if for no other reason than the galling that so often comes with stainless against stainless. I know a LE officer in town that carries a Sig 220 that has been hard-chromed; he swears by it.
I was shocked at the weight and the bipod. Sounds like a varmint rifle for BIG varmints. I'll bet that rifle doesn't get carried in your hands much.
But the most interesting thing is the accidental gain-twist barrel. Doubtlessly Pac-Nor must wish they could turn one of those "boy barrels" out whenever they wanted to.
Thanks for the details. Now, I've been having a hankering for a .250 Savage AI lately (a fellow can come up with all kinds of great ideas while sitting on a deer stand for two and a half months) so how about the skinny on your better-half's rifle. What I'm thinking about is something like a walking varminter lay out. What is Karen using? RS

Hey Rip,

Yeah, the gain-twist is cool. Actually, Chris has the capability of gain-twist now, but I don't know if he is doing any for customers yet. And, actually, I don't know if it is a good thing or not. Anyway, mine is a BOY.

Karen's .250 Ackley is absolutely identical to my .25-06 except that it is a three-contour Schneider and has a 22-inch barrel.

Yeah, they are heavy and I hate that part about them. The name of the game, however, is making the one prfect shot. Karen and I got back from antelope hunting this year with four dead goats and four shots fired. Our yak and water buffalo were two shots. Year before last, we killed two antelope and two deer--four shots. The combination works and I ain't gonna change it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yup, a Harris L-S bipod is twelve friggin' ounces. Hate that three-quarter of a pound, but wouldn't be caught dead in the field without it.

Merry Christmas, my friend.

Steve

DZ,

What are your thoughts on the 25-06AI? I'm planning on building one soon with a 26" stainless barrel, probably a #3 contour. I want an open spaces rifle for antelope and deer on the plains. I plan to use 100gr bullets, I don't see why anyone would want to go heavier with the 25-06 when the 270 is out there. I'll probably go with Reloader 22.

Do you think the 25-06AI is a viable cartridge? Or is the standard cartridge the way to go?

Bwanabe,

Friend, I've had both and, interestingly, I've had better luck with the standard .25-'06. This is probably because the .25-'06 is already a REALLY BIG quarter-bore.

Over the years, I've two .25-'06 Ackleys and both of them were not enough faster than standard .25-'06s I've had to make it worth the fireforming of brass. They were both Schneider barrels, fine barrels and I'd have to assume that they were characteristic.

It would be very interesting to chamber the same barrel for .25-06 and later, without changing the length significantly, rechamber for .25-'06. Even more, it would be great to compare results with a strain-gauge setup, so you were dealing with equal pressures.

I do know this; if you opt for the .25-'06 Ackley, it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a fireform barrel for making brass. I have a slave rifle and fireform barrels for several of my Ackleys and it really keeps the stress off the throats of my fine barrels.

My last several big .25s have been just the standard .25-'06 Remington. I stuff it with a hatful of RL-22 and top it off with 100 Ballistics. The combination really lights up antelope.

Hope this helps,

Steve

This thread has been most interesting. I tried 58grs.-R22/100grSpeer and averaged 3477 fps. from my 25/06 /24in. Shilen 1-10 twist. I've been using 117s& 120s for deer hunting in the riverbreaks here around Lewiston. 250yd. + shots are very common and maybe the 100s deserve a try.

Thanks again for the interesting thread, Pedro

Hey Pedro,

I use 58.0 grains of RL-22 with the 100 Ballistics or Hornady Interlockeds. MV is a few feet over 3,500 fps, statistically the same as you.

Steve

Thanks DZ <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I use the 100 gr. TTSX in my 257 Wby Mag and my 25-06. Both rifles have taken a pile of big game and I have only recovered 2 bullets which still weighed 97 and 96 grains and I have never lost an animal to either rifle. In fact most shot have been bang flops. The 25-06 is 3350 FPS and the 257 is 3716 FPS.

It would be very interesting to hear DZs & MDs current thoughts on the QuarterBore, in light of the developments of the last Two decades.

Ie powders, bullets, twist, optics , availability, etc.

This thread was started 19 years ago.

It's one of the good ones though!

The 25-06 is my first choice for pronghorn. Many decades ago, the bullet selection wasn't great for the 25-06. It seemed to me the bullets would not expand or would do so violently depending on the different bullets, at least the ones I saw in use. When the 100 grain Hornady Interlock bullets came out I felt it was one of the best available - I still have a couple boxes of them. The partitions were not always available, now they are available in different weights - you can't do better than partitions, IMO. I tried the SST's when they came out and that first design was lacking as they expanded quite violently. I've just recently bought a couple boxes of 100 grain TTSX bullets and will try them on pronghorn, if I'm lucky enough to draw a tag. I'll be using that combination on whitetail this fall. Today, it seems that there are quite a few bullets that should work well in the 25-06. The BT's I have are likely an older version, they will likely be on my estate sale, someday.

If the 100 grain Swift Scirocco will shoot, it's a blaster as well!

I wonder how much the 100gr BT has changed in the 19 years since this post.

Yuppers! It was fun reading through those old posts. Scotty, you know I'm still a big fan of the 25-06 for mule deer, antelope and coyotes. I've loaded the 100 grain Barnes TSX, the 115 Berger VLD, the 115 Nosler Ballistic Tip and the 110 grain Nosler Accubond. I haven't taken any game with the 110 Accubond yet but my goodness it shoots well! With Retumbo it's giving me 3200 fps and .5" five shot groups at 100 yards from the Remington 24" 1:10 barrel! Best accuracy came from 100 grain Sierras over H4831.

Retumbo has become my powder of choice for the 25-06, but RL-22 and H4831 work great as well. Retumbo is getting me between 3150 and 3200 fps with 115's. Can't push the Ballistic Tips quite as hard as the Partitions and the Bergers. They seem to hit excess pressure earlier. The Berger is really rough on coyotes and deadly on mule deer.

H4350 is excellent with the 100 grain Barnes TSX bullets. The TTSX hadn't been developed when I was using the TSX's. 3350 fps from the TSX's.

Fell hard for the Remington 700 CDL when it first came out. I like the fit and look of the Remington 700 CDL. Mine has a near twin in 30-06 and I've taken most of my game over the past 15 - 20 years with those two rifles. Mule deer from 20 yards - 400 yards. Antelope at modest range, 160ish. Coyotes out to nearly a quarter mile. Light recoil. Easy accuracy. Great results on game.









At any rate, it's good to see this old thread and read of others experience with the 25-06, it's such a great cartridge.

Regards, Guy

Some great pics and stories, thanks.
I have had 4 (IIRC) 25-06, three 700s and one rebarreled model 70. A couple 700s were quite accurate (one was way under 1" with 100 BTs) and oddly enough the rebarreled model 70 (which had a real quality barrel spun on it and properly bedded in a mcmillan stock) would not shoot anything 100 grains or more worth a damn. Gunsmith who built it was absolutely no help figuring it out either so it got sold with full disclosure at a deep discount.
Only shot one buck with a 25-06 and I can tell you a poorly placed 100 ballistic tip at under 100 yards makes a real mess! Doing it again I would stick with heavier bullets or perhaps Barnes TTSX.
I would not mind another 25-06, easy on the shoulder and very flat shooting at any reasonable hunting range. Might build one in a couple years, my "old man" rifle!

Ya, I was about 20 years younger when I bought my first 25-06, and settled on this Rem 700 CDL in about 2005 I think. Got a pretty good buck with it that year.

It's a great cartridge for us "seasoned shooters" as it is rough on deer and easy on the shooter. A fellow could say that about the 6mm's as well.

Regards, Guy

338Rules,
Great job digging this one back. Had some great PM’s w Steve quite a while back. Hope he is well.
Not sure of JB’s take on the 25-06….. but I’m sure it will be well thought out.
As for me it’s a fav of my good friend Paul. He has his dads with a custom barrel. His dad built it for a Western goat hunt and it did well. But that thing has piled up the Eastern Whitetails!!! The grandkids use it and the term lightning bolt has been mentioned a time or two. (These are New England distance so no real baring on a longer Western hunt, but darn nice freezer filling every year)
I like the Roberts being from the North East, but respect the 25-06 quite a bit.

You guys need to quit.

I don't need another rifle!

I don't need another rifle!

I don't need another rifle!

Yes, you do. My .25-06 is the last rifle that would leave.

Someone here showed a pic of a beautiful lefty c grade 700 in 25-06. If he ever wants to re-home it.....

Timm was right on this one.

The 25-06 is an arriving grenade.

Had bigger/better rounds for bigger game........but medium game at long range, worked great.

Only rifle I totally washed out. Blame fellow prairie dog shooting 'pards' that did not know when the mirage was barrel heat, not prairie heat. 87sp Hornady's....85bt's later.....smoking fast. VHA days, great times.

Many called coyotes and like-sized critters taken.

None. It's still my Gold Standard for a .25 bullet performance on game.

In my 250 Ackley and two 25-06's, it's done a great job on white tails, antelope, big mule deer, a couple of black bears and a few elk.

Good shootin' -Al

Everyone needs at least one 25-06. I like the 115 grain ballistic tips in mine.

Great post, Al!

What are your thoughts of pre-Interlock 100gr spire points?

That's a bullet I've not used on game....sorry.

In Y2K, Steve Timm (dogzapper) suggested the 100 gr. BTips to me. In fact, he sent me a box of his own to try. And true to form, Steve's advice was spot on. Since then, it's all I use at the heavy end of the .25 spectrum. It's big brother, the 115 BTip, shoots just as well and performs great on game too. But for me, the 100 BTip gives a better balance of recoil, velocity and drop...while doing just a killer job on game.

Steve's advice remains as sound today as it was when this thread was started.

Hope this helps. -Al

So Al are you saying you didn’t hunt with a 25 in pre-1977. That’s when the interlock was introduced. Just didn’t call them that.

The first .25 I owned was a 700 Sendero 25-06 in '94...first year production of it in the Sendero. -Al

Bought my first 25.06 in 84. Used primarily Sierra 117 flat base what’s now known as the Pro-Hunter. In 91-92 I switched to 120 grain Hornady that was supposedly designed for the 25.06. It failed biggly.



Buck at 175 blew up on impact, second shot also blew up on a spine shot and wasn’t recovered. Last Hornady bullet I ever shot a deer with. Still got that box of bullets. The 115 BT was erratic on performance so went back to pro-hunter.

If you were building a .25-06 now, as opposed to already owning one, you'd be better off using a Remington short action with an extended box, using 6.5 PRC cases necked down to .257, putting a 7 twist 24 inch barrel on it and using the high bc bullets in 95 grain (Badlands), 110 grain (Badlands), 133 grain (Berger) or 134 grain (Hornady) or the lower bc Hammer bullets.

My experience with a 25-06 is so thin you could read a newspaper through it. I found a Ruger #1 at a gun show that looked a bit rough. Basically I was interested in the barreled action with the plan of having the barrel rebored and chambered to 35 Whelen. Having never shot a 25-06, I bought a box of ammo with 100 gr. bullets. Don't even remember what brand but the ugly duckling shot very tight groups some less than half inch. Guess I shouldn't have shot the donor. About 6 month later I found two more Ruger #1s, another 25-06 and a 7MM Rem. Mag., both with very very nice wood. I managed to get both for a decent price and again bought some ammo and dies to reload for both, Well the purty one does not shoot worth spit and the 7 Mag. is useable but only fair. 1.25" to 1.75". I just copied accuracy loads from the Sierra manual but neither rifles liked the load. They've been sitting in the safe ever since.Oh well.
PJ

There’s one guy I sure do miss! If Steve said it, you could take the accuracy of the statement as well as the experience base behind it. And an amazing human being as well.

Always liked his articles, enjoyed his posts here. Definitely a BTDT guy. PM'd him on several occasions. Always got good responses. A very likeable guy. Wish I knew how to get hold of him. He and his wife were having some health problems.

I have two 25-06's, the best loads I've tried in each are with 100 grain Interlocks. I'll be switching as soon as these bullets run out. The ADL is old, the blueing is worn off to the most part and so is the finish on the stock. It is my pronghorn go to rifle/load

25-06, Remington, early 700 ADL, 100 grain Hornady Interlock, 9 ½, 56.7 grains H4831sc, 0.74 MOA
25-06,Remington, 700 Classic, 100 grain Hornady Interlock, 9 ½, 56.7 grains H4831sc, 0.88 MOA

Bugger: what bullet will you switch to?

My entire .25 cal. bullets inventory is just five bullets:

Nosler 100 BTip
Nosler 85 BTip
Sierra 87
Sierra 75
Bib 88

To evaluate a new or unknown gun for either accuracy potential or problems, I start right out with the Sierra 75's. If a .25 won't shoot this bullet, you've got issues.

I did the development for Randy on the BIB 88's....the first ones down any barrel. All I had was my 250 Ackley huntin' rig but it sorted 'em out nicely as these 5 shot groups show.



250 Ackley (below)

Al,
Based on Dogzapper I’m trying the 100 grain BT for 2
25-06’s and my 257 Wby. I know the 115 gr has been phenomenal in my 25-284. Looking forward to trying it he new load on deer/hogs.

GreggH

I have used the 100-grain Ballistic Tip considerably on pronghorn and deer, and not just in the .25-06 (where it works great) but the .257 Roberts loaded to "modern" pressures.

The last one I recovered (one of very few) was started at around 3150 fps from a .257 Roberts, and killed a mature Montana whitetail doe, which was walking toward me early one November morning. At around 50 yards she noticed something "wrong" in the landscape, and started looking around. Her neck/head was moving some, and since she was quartering toward me I aimed for the near shoulder.

At the shot she gimp-ran about 25 yards and piled up. The bullet had split the big shoulder joint, and I found it under the hide at the end of the ribcage on the far side, retaining around half its weight. This may not impress those who believe in 100% weight retention, but in my experience tends to kill deer very well.

The few Hornady Interlocks I've recovered (both 100 .25s and others) like "deer-weight" Ballistic Tips have generally retained 40-60% of their weight, and were all found on the far side of deer that died quickly.

MD, you really risked it on that shot with such a poor BC on that bullet.😁

GreggH

Thanks, Al. I new it was a random question & appreciate your candor.

I’ve still got a few boxes of the pre-interlock 100’s and they seemed to kill Blacktail well. I haven’t really focused on them in years but historically they always did what I asked - just didn’t know how they stacked up in the ‘modern’ world of bullets.

[quote=GreggH]MD, you really risked it on that shot with such a poor BC on that bullet.😁

GreggH[/quote

Amazing, ain't it!

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/15603745/1

dave

Is Ken still around?but

You just learn to compensate by using a lot of extra powder, with bullets that have a bc of around .393. If the shot is less than 100 yards, use a Roberts or a .25-06. If it's over 100 yards, use the .257 Weatherby, as you do. Just use about 76 grains of H1000 with those 100 grain ballistic tips. Don't take the shot if it's over 300 yards...that way you can always say bc doesn't make any difference.

I use a 257 Weatherby with the original 100gr Hornady Spire Points. In my experience of 40 plus deer with this caliber, NOT ONE has ever taken a step

Picked up a used Dakota Model 10 in 25-06 Ackley Improved awhile back. Shoots great with standard 25-06 ammo. Tried Hornady Precision Hunter with the 110 grain ELD-X bullet this past hunting season. Probably a great long range choice but of course I had a small 6 point step out at 50 yards. Ended up tracking it for 100 yards in heavy cover.

Picked up a set of Ackley Improved dies from Redding and currently testing loads with Barnes 100 grain TTSX BT and the 115 grain NBT.

Did the ELD-X exit? Where'd it hit him?

Have used the 143 ELD-X some in 6.5 cartridges of about 6.5x55 power-capacity, at around 2700 fps. They penetrate well at those velocities--but I see the listed muzzle velocity of the 110-grain .25-06 load is 3140 fps....

Family used the 110 ELD out of a 257 Wby with a heap of H1000 this past year on a moderate sized black bear and a few deer. It was brutal but very terminal. He recovered the jacket on the far side on the bear but it hammered through the deer leaving decent sized exit holes.

Thanks.

Killed a northern New Mexico mule deer buck with the 6.5 143 ELD-X at just about exactly 100 yards a couple-three years ago. He was standing broadside on a hillside in a patch of Gambel oaks, and the most logical vital spot visible was the "high shoulder." At the shot the buck collapsed and rolled down the slope about 30 feet. The bullet had broken both scapulas and the the spine, and was recovered under the hide on the far side retaining 60% of its weight. The buck's boned meat weighed exactly 100 pounds, and the rule-of-thumb is live weight is 3 times boned, so he was somewhere around 300 pounds.

A friend of mine on the same hunt killed an even bigger-bodied buck at around 300 yards with the same bullet/load. The buck was quartering away, and at the shot did the little heart-shot jump before trotting 30-35 yards and keeling over. That bullet ended up in the far shoulder, retaining 74% of its weight. But as noted, muzzle velocity was a lot less than 3140 fps!

So if a deer is over 100 yards, a 257 or 25/06 won’t work, a 257Bee is necessary ???? Wow!

I kinda stuck with if the ELD's are started around 2800 or less, for me, they work awesome. The 147 at 2775 and the 212 at 2700 have been excellent for me with the 212 smashing alot of bone on a raghorn bull and the 147's plowing through deer from a few odd angles but just leaving deer behind. Pretty good bullets in my head at this point.

I'd have been terrified of the 110 at 257 Wby speeds but I guess I am a chicken like that. My cousin used it to good success though and had no issues. I'd have to guess that 110 had to have been 3400+ but that's just a guess on charge and a bit of 257 experience.

Yeah about the same effective range as a 12 gauge slug gun

If you're using those low bc .257 bullets, then use a big case with double the amount of powder. Or you can do what a lot of these other guys are doing, run back to the car and grab the 6.5 with its high bc bullets. Alternatively, if they made more bullets in .257 that had a good bc, then all these guys who use a 6.5 as well as a .257 could just use a .257.

Surely he is being facetious?

I've taken several nice bucks past 100 yards with a 25-45 Sharps loaded with the Hornady 117 gr RN. My largest buck was a 200 lb. 11 pointer (eastern count) at a tad over 100 yards. Drilled the shoulders and DRT.

What is this BC you fellows are discussing?

BC stands for ballistic co-efficient. It really means how efficient a bullet's shape is when it travels through air to reach its target. A higher bc bullet experiences less air resistance and drifts less in the wind , retains more of its velocity (which is another word for speed) and shoots flatter. And one more thing I should add for those .257 owners who don't think bc is important, if you shoot a deer with a high bc bullet past 200 yards, the deer doesn't fall off the edge of the earth.

🙄

Hit the Whitetail with the 110 grain Hornady Precision Hunter behind the shoulder at a bit of an angle. Did not exit. Appeared to blow up without penetrating all that deeply.

Don’t waste your time.

GreggH

Good point!

Was the deer headed toward you (the bullet path through the deer would have been toward the tail end) or away from you (bullet path through would have been toward opposite shoulder or sternum)?

I'm wondering if the bullet hit a rib (or perhaps a couple ribs) at a shallow angle.

And perhaps you don't waste people's time by deliberately, in two different .257 threads, make provocative posts about how bc is irrelevant, in full knowledge that someone who disagrees will respond. As a side issue, your pathetic attempt to suckarss on the previous page is duly noted.

South Texas, I doubt if your time is very valuable. With your IQ, do you even earn a reasonable wage?

Headed toward me. Probably did hit a few ribs. Did the job but ran a long way for such a solid hit.

Well, it was a good thread while it lasted.....

The 110 grain Accubond would hold together better and the 110 Sierra Tipped GameKing is designed to be a tougher bullet.

I don't "earn a wage", thank you

100 grain TTSX, 100 grain BT or various partitions.

I bought a few weights of partitions from SPS. So far had poor luck in getting them to shoot as accurately as I like??? I think I have 100, 115, (117?) and 120's. I usually have good luck with accuracy and partitions. I don't know what is going on. I just bought a few hundred TTSX's and I'm planning on wringing them out at the range when weather gets appropriate.

I guess I didn't know about the 100 yard limit with the 25-06. When I was a bit younger and even more foolish, I shot a pronghorn at what I thought was 450 yards. I broke both front legs a few inches below the rib cage. That was long before I had a range finder. I suspect the range was maybe 550 yards.

The use of the word "even" in the question "Do you even earn a reasonable wage?" indicates the possibility of other forms of income besides a wage.

South’
Teenager?

GreggH

Or perhaps it could indicate that I earn and Unreasonable wage. Or perhaps I could get a wage but don't earn it.

Now, for OBG and others, perhaps we can drop the personal insults and return to a worthwhile thread

GreggH..Just keep trying to suckarss.

Man, for inside 500 there are some great ones out there. I am on a Scirocco and 100 BT kick for right now. Not sure what I'd go to next.