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The .300 mag brass I saw was brand new stuff...
Hmmm..
Well one thing we can definintely agree on is that the M24 damn sure is a long action..
To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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They got to buy new brass to make old brass ![grin grin](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/grin.gif)
When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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The AMU teams that shot bolt guns in LR competition used 300 win mag exclusively until they switched over to the 6.5x284.
When people face the possibility of freezing or starving there is little chance they are going to listen to unfounded claims of climate doomsday from a bunch of ultra-rich yacht sailing private jet-setting carbon-spewing hypocrite elites
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I began shooting the M-14 and other rifles at FT Benning in 1968. Lee, may I ask what your age is? Surely it's not an intrusive question. Given Lee has also claimed to be a ROTC student in 1968 and to be assigned to an MTU at the same time. I would suggest that anything he claims is a figment of his imagination so don't hold your breath for an answer. Hey, give Lee some credit. 1968 WAS a long and apparently busy year... ![laugh laugh](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/laugh.gif)
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I will respond to the serious posts and even some of the uninformed ones who think they are capable of playing "gotcha", but aren't.
jim-62, My 1903A3, which I posted to show the same Bishop stock worn by the initial Remington 700s of the Vietnam ( and the .30-06 match rifles used stateside), was "restocked" (from 1903A4 sniper stock). I don't need to use Google, but if you want to believe the postings of some wannabe who was not even born in the 1960s, vs the direct knowledge of myself, go ahead. I can often use Google, NEXIS, or some photo service on the Internet to point you to the original words of others.
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I'm glad someone else caught Lee in another lie cause when he first started this thread I noticed the long action rifle too he said was a short.....I felt like if I said anything about it someone would call me an ankle biter. Nice going Lee.
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Since some have not gone back to read my previous posts, I added this to the first one, to hopefully make it more clear about the transition from .30-06 to 7.62x51mm NATO.
----- 1903A4 rifles in Vietnam ----------------------
At the early part of the Vietnam War, 1903A4 Springfield sniper rifles with the M84
telescopic sights were used, same as in the Korean War. There were not enough of
these, which is why you see photos of snipers and sharpshooters with Model 70
Winchester and Remington 700 ADL sporting rifles, usually in .30-06. The 1903A4 rifle
continued to be used into the 1970s.
The training manual is FM 23-10. The technical manual is TM 9-270, dated September 1943. The last revision of the TM 9-270 is Tm 9-1270, dated December 1970.
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---- M-14 and M-21 rifles --------------------
GeneL,
Your memory is 100% correct.
Most snipers and sharpshooters used an M-14 (if it was really accurate, and some are sub .5 MOA out of the box), but usually the heavy barrel M-21. Some of those later used a wood stock with a high buttlplate, like the FN-FAL, and a pistol grip.
The bolt actions mostly used the Redfield 3-9x40 sight, with the Accu-Trak range-finding reticle. Most of the M-21s used the Leatherwood 3-9x40 ART range-finding scope. But there were M-21s with Redfield scopes, and bolt action rifles with Leatherwood scopes. I still own one of these M-21s, and will take some photos of it up close. I have photos of the scoped M-14 and M-21s in action, and can post those. Some I need to scan.
The M-21 snipers usually worked in 2-man teams in the Army or Marine Corps. The second man, who was doing spotting with a high-power glass and binoculars, carried a bolt action rifle. A lighter rifle is better when carrying that other gear.
The M-21 barrel was stout enough to support the Sionics suppressor, supplied by CIA operator Mitch Werbel.
The M-14 could not shoot the high pressure (65,000 PSI) M-60 ammunition which was most accurate and had the greatest reach, which is another reason for the bolt-action rifles. (See my previous post on the history of the 172/173/175 grain ammunition for both the .30-06 and .308 Winchester).
I still have some of the white box 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition, as well as the machine gun ammunition issued to snipers. Will snap some photos of that stuff, too, and probably put it in the ammunition thread.
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Blah blah blah blah blah.............
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Oooops I'm ankle biting again.
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You stupid SOB.. if really does not matter WHEN you were born.. You could be the world's oldest man, and you'd still be the liar/dumbass you truly are.. ![wink wink](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif) Like I said, liar, niether the Springield pic you posted OR the Accurate Innovations stocked "replica" rifle in the middle pic are even close to the real Remmington supplied M40s. Period. If you have posted a pick of an Early 1960s m700 short action BDL you would have been a lot closer. E./C Bishop did not have a [bleep] thing to do with designing any USMC sniper stock. But then, you have had to actually KNOW something about the rifles to realise that, azzhat. You are a without a doubt the BIGGEST loser I have ever seen on any forum.. What an incredible jerkoff.
Last edited by jim62; 12/19/09.
To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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Tom264, ankle biting is all you can do here. Let this post cover all the other ankle-biters, as well.
Your inability to understand a discussion does not mean the rest of us "lack credibility". You are simply too ignorant to keep up, much less judge us.
If I missed any serious questions by serious posters, I will read back through here and answer those later, with photos and other documentation, if I have time. Some have probably been already covered in other threads. Gotta go Christmas shopping.
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jim62, I see you don't have the brains to crawl off when faced with genuine knowledge. You don't know anything about the Bishop stocks used on the 1903A3 and Model 700 long action military rifles in 1966.
If I take a photo of a real rifle in my hands or my shop, you will make some stupid remark about it. If I take a photo at a military museum, you will dismiss that. If I post a photo of a real M-40 or M-24 or M-21 in action, you will dismiss that as "googling". If I scan my photos or manuals, you will claim I "plagarized" them. Stupid insults are all your ilk can "contribute".
This comment applies to a lot of you internet wannabes, current and future posts.
You might want to stay away, because the next set of photos I take and post will be painful to you.
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Yeah Lee someone did ask you a question......How old are you?
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jim62, If I take a photo of a real rifle in my hands or my shop, you will make some stupid remark about it. If I take a photo at a military museum, you will dismiss that. If I post a photo of a real M-40 or M-24 or M-21 in action, you will dismiss that as "googling".
Moron! thats because with all your Lying around here you have ZERO CREDIBILITY! You cant get past that can you?
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---- M-14 and M-21 rifles --------------------
GeneL,
Your memory is 100% correct.
Most snipers and sharpshooters used an M-14 (if it was really accurate, and some are sub .5 MOA out of the box), but usually the heavy barrel M-21. Some of those later used a wood stock with a high buttlplate, like the FN-FAL, and a pistol grip.
The bolt actions mostly used the Redfield 3-9x40 sight, with the Accu-Trak range-finding reticle. Most of the M-21s used the Leatherwood 3-9x40 ART range-finding scope. But there were M-21s with Redfield scopes, and bolt action rifles with Leatherwood scopes. I still own one of these M-21s, and will take some photos of it up close. I have photos of the scoped M-14 and M-21s in action, and can post those. Some I need to scan.
The M-21 snipers usually worked in 2-man teams in the Army or Marine Corps. The second man, who was doing spotting with a high-power glass and binoculars, carried a bolt action rifle. A lighter rifle is better when carrying that other gear.
The M-21 barrel was stout enough to support the Sionics suppressor, supplied by CIA operator Mitch Werbel.
The M-14 could not shoot the high pressure (65,000 PSI) M-60 ammunition which was most accurate and had the greatest reach, which is another reason for the bolt-action rifles. (See my previous post on the history of the 172/173/175 grain ammunition for both the .30-06 and .308 Winchester).
I still have some of the white box 7.62x51mm NATO ammunition, as well as the machine gun ammunition issued to snipers. Will snap some photos of that stuff, too, and probably put it in the ammunition thread. Funny and sad, all at the same time....
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I always thought that during the Vietnam War the US armed snipers with 03s, M70s, Garands, and finally in the late 60s they used Remington 700s.
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Whatever it is I'm sure Lee will straighten us out.
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Whatever it is I'm sure Lee will straighten us out. Ankle biter! Ankle biter! ![wink wink](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/default/wink.gif)
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