Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General Winchester 1886 vs. Marlin 1895

Which would you rather own and why? Sorry if its been asked before. I've personally owned both. I've owned an original 1886 and Marlin 1895's. The Marlins were a regular 1895 half-mag made just after they started with the safeties, an original 1895 and an 1895 Cowboy.

The 1886 was sweet. Very hard to beat. The Marlin Cowboy I would rate second. Picking between these two would be tough. The Marlin is probably a bit stronger due to it being newer and also the more modern steels. The Marlin is also lighter, which to most people would be an advantage. To me though, the greater weight made the '86 easier to shoot. I'll take the '86, but it is awfully, awfully close. You also could mount a scope on the Marlin...

I have 3 1886's, no Marlins. I guess that would explain my preference. One is a Browning-made Montana Centennial, and it is a better quality gun than the later produced Winchesters that they made about 10 years later.

The other 2 are original Winchesters, one of which is stamped "Browning Brothers, Ogden U.T." It even has a single set trigger which is very rare in an 1886.

I haven't found a Marlin in the original configuration that had the chamber tolerances as tight as the Winchesters, this makes it hard and sometimes impossible to shoot with today's loads. I do have a Marlin 1889 in 44-40 and it is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. It doesn't have that chamber problem.

I have seen plenty of original Marlins in excellent shape, their fit and finish is every bit as good as Winchester, but my affinity for these types of rifles is for the originals and I will stick with the 1886's.

I got my first 1886 about two weeks ago, an early Browning SRC 45-70 in mint condition. I also have a Marlin 1895 Cowboy in 45-70.

My impression is that the 1886 has a better level of finish and fit than the Marlin, and is just a bit heavier. That aside, I prefer the Marlin, hands down. The Marlin just flat out shoots circles around the 1886, and it ain't even close.

Maybe this is just the difference between two individual rifles, I don't know, but in my sample of one each, the Marlin has it all over the 1886.

New or old Winchester (or Browning) 1886 hands down, no question whatsoever.

The '86 is so much smoother IMO than the 1895. Wouldn't cull either, though.

Yeah.. A sample of one each ..

You own ONE 1886 for TWO WHOLE WEEKS(a carbine with barrel bands to boot) and now you are an expert on accurate 1886 rifles are?

That's a damn funny post,IMHO

Sharpsguy has burned enough powder to fill a freight train with mucho different rifles. I've shot both (own an 1895SS) and the Marlin has outshot the 1886 rifles I have tried. The Winchesters are definitely prettier though.

[quote=EvilTwin]Sharpsguy has burned enough powder to fill a freight train with mucho different rifles. [/quote)

So have I... BFD.

And After owning and shootingat least 5 of each model over the last 20 years, I have found-ALL things being equal- (same quality sights and ammo) that there is no real difference. Period.

Like I said, anyopne who would make a definitive statement on the accuracy of a rifle based on a sample of ONE is pretty damn foolish,IMHO.

Sorry.

I have a Browning 1886. It is very slick and locks up tight. I don't really like the curved steel buttplate though. One of these days I'll get it replaced. The 1895 Cowboy felt better in my hands, but I don't remember how the action was.

jim62, I didn't get that sharpsguy was making an assesment of the two rifles across ther board. Only the relative accuracy of his two samples.

If you re-read his last sentence, he says as much in very clear language.

Quote:

"Maybe this is just the difference between two individual rifles, I don't know, but in my sample of one each, the Marlin has it all over the 1886."

I guess this line contradicts the other-

"The Marlin just flat out shoots circles around the 1886, and it ain't even close."

"...in my sample of one each..."

Precisely..

You are comparing two nice rifles. I have them both and here are my thoughts.

Personally I prefer my 1886. But if I want to hunt with a scoped rifle then I like the Marlin better. Both rifles shoot well if you take your time and find the right load. Personally I shoot my own cast bullets, and get more than enough accuracy to get the job done.

The only thing I do not like on the Marlin is the open bolt. I do not like the look of the right side of the receiver because the bolt is exposed. There is not a thing wrong with that, I just do not like the aesthetics of that part of the Marlin. I wish Marlin would go back to the "bolt cover". Just like my old 336 has. But other than that I really like the looks and feel of the Marlin cowboy model, and I really like that octagon barrel. Those barrels are really sharp IMO.

But if I could only have one then it would be my 1886. The rifle is a bit heavy(no doubt), but it handles and carries fantastically.

IMO it really comes down to whether you want to hunt with a scope or not. I believe the Marlin is set up better for scoped hunting, and the Winchester is set up better for open sighted hunting. Tom.

jim62--My life is not about trying to find a load for a cranky rifle. A long time ago I figured out that life is too short to tolerate tempermental women and tempermental rifles. I have a wonderful wife and a gunsafe full of accurate rifles.

Maybe you have had good luck with your 1886s. Granted, mine is a sample of one, but it won't reliably hit a dinner plate at 100 yards. To me, a chef is only as good as the last meal he serves in his restaurant. Poor food means I ain't eatin' there anymore. If my 86 happened to turn out to be a dog, so be it. FWIW, my Marlin Cowboy is the only one of those I have ever owned, and it shoots lights out--and it is ALSO A SAMPLE OF ONE. My Cowboy Marlin Shoots, and my 1886 doesn't. Get over it.

Hmmm. The three different 1886 carbines I have shot since they were released in 1992 would do at least 2 inches or at 100 yards for three shots with the factory sights (properly shaded and shot off a rest)..

If your Browning 1886 Carbine truly will not "reliably a dinner plate" at 100 yards, then is the FIRST lever rifle of ANY make or model I have ever heard of that was that inaccurate since most dinner plates are 8" plus in diameter..

You might consider sending that Browning of yours to Buffalo Bill Firearms Museum in Cody. Any lever gun that inaccurate should be documented and have it's own wing due to it's rarity..

I have owned just about every configuration of the modern (post 1972) Marlin 1895 and the modern Browning/Winchester Miroku 1886 rifles. The fit and finish is much better on the Brownchesters as a rule, but I have seen exceptions. Of course, the fit and finish should be better on a rifle that costs twice as much as the Marlin in many cases. I have owned examples of both brands that were shooters and others that were not.

For the money, I think the Marlin is the better value if you plan to hunt with it. It is far easider to add aftermarket sights, slings etc to the Marlin. Accuracy is usually at least equal to the more expensive 1886. They are both great guns. The 1886 is prettier and more nostalgic, the 1895 more utilitarian.

+1

I think the 1886 Winchester is nicer looking for what that is worth, not much to a hunter I suppose. I have two of the Marlin .444's and one 45/70. The are rugged and shoot well with both factory and my reloads. PS, I am a model 70 Winchester man for many years!

Interesting responses, so far.
The Browning, and then later the Winchester 1886's of the modern era are all manufactured in Japan under the auspices of Miroku. The Japanese redesigned the original weapons to work on the metric system, additionally, they changed some, tho not all of the internal parts. It is for this reason that I believe the Browning/USRAC/WRA Miroku guns to be in effect different rifles from those made by skilled American gunsmiths so many decades gone.
This is not to disparage the new weapons, in fact I think they are quite nice, yet they tend to have slightly different enough dimensions and handling/action characteristics to in my mind at least, be qualified as replicas rather than continuation of the storied Winchester 1886.
Browning versions, which maintain the closest to original lock work, also tend to be heaviest of the replica guns. Part of this is due to the configurations chosen.
Some mention was made of the Browning carbine, and its inability-or ability-to shoot. Having some experience with the Winchester 1886 carbine, I can state that the gun must be held firmly, and high enough on the shoulder to gain the sights without undue craning of the neck in order to repeat its shots in a close cluster. By the way, the Winchester weighs in at least a couple pounds lighter than the hulking Browning.
Secondly, even a N.I.B. gun should be checked for correct torque on all screws. Any looseness in the tang-even slightly perceptible motion will almost always result in vertical stringing. It also never hurts to clean the barrel, as all matter of barely visible nasties can lurk in there, even if she was a safe queen.
In terms of which gun is better, the Marlin or the Winchester, I think a lot of it has to do with preference. The real Winchester 1886's are now going on 7 decades old-and beyond. They are quickly disappearing from the realm of practical weapons, into the vaults of history.
A more valid comparison might be between the new WRA 1886 extra light and the original 1895 Marlin. Both feature 22" bbl.s, tip the scales at a bit over 7 lbs., and can operate at roughly equal cartridge pressures.
In terms of features, such as sling swivels, checkering-the Marlin wins. In terms of Handling, I personally believe the extra light with its straight stock is faster to the shoulder, esp. since it does not have a rubber butt to catch on your clothes.
Personally, I continue to be disappointed by Marlin's insistence on Popeye sized forearms, but then, most Miroku barrels do not have throats, which can limit the use of some bullets.
If I wanted the best value for my money, I believe it is the Marlin, however, if I wanted the fastest and best handling-it'd be the Winchester.

I own and shoot Browning and Winchester ORIGINAL 71's (not that there are any other kinds). Any differences in weight are probably within the noise of manufacture (+- a few ounces). The few Browning '86s I've handled remind me of the 71's and I know I've shot original Winchester '86's (pre- light weights) that weigh more. I will say I've never disassembled either, so I can't comment on differences, if any, in their lock work.

As for shooting, you would be hard pressed to find a more accurate lever gun than the Browning 71 reproduction. 4" groups at 200 yards can be had with open sights (and that's as good as I can see).

Interesting.

I would go with the 1886. I like Marlin rifles, but not as much as the 1886 action. Comparing an original Model 71 to a Marlin is a big difference is receiver size and slick action movement. But, I am biased to the 1886, only have one Marlin lever action anymore.

Really interesting post on the Miroku manufacture compared to the US. There was similar observation made of Browning A-5 shotguns, made in Belgium compared to Miroku. The categories were cult following Belgium made looked and felt better but the Miroku made functioned better due to tighter tolerances and better manufacturing.

Both shoot well in my experience.

1886 win. hands down..It is a better looking rifle, better made, has better resale value. Every 86 I have owned was super accurate, and not so the Marlins, some were and some were not.

Of note and as much as I have always liked the Win. Mod 71, I have only seen a few that shot worth a flip and have not figured out why an 86 is so accurate and a 71 isn't unless its the .348 Cartridge itself...I have owned a bunch of both over the years..My first 86 was still in the wooden box of celsor and was a gift to me from Bowie Cline the manager of Union stock yards in El paso. they had several in case Pancho Villa raided them..I sold that gun some years later for $150 and cut a fat hog on that deal..That was a bunch of money back then..wish I'd kept it....:)

Atkinson,
A lot of folks see the 71 as the 86 with a new number, but that's not the case at all. The 71 is actually most similar to the 92, in that cartridge over all length is absolutely critical to smoothe functioning. The 86 uses a hook to feed from the magazine, but the 71 dispensed with this feature.
The 348 is what I would call a true field accurate cartridge. It is not a bench rest number. No one designed the 348 to make nice little holes in paper to be folded up and carried around in the wallet. In my experience, once one learns the proper hold for their levergun, they are deadly with it at whatever range they have practiced for, and the 348 was no different.
Field accurate means you hit what you aim at in the field. Folks used to high powered scopes bolt actions and ear splitting reports don't believe me when I say this, but no matter, it is true as the sun shines.
I do agree with you that the real 86, in fine condition, not refinished after being beat up, is a most excellent rifle, but these are getting harder and harder to find at anything approaching affordable prices.
Well, the real Winchester is gone and buried, and by the looks of it, the real Marlin is soon to follow. I think anyone who is willing to shoulder the quintessential levergun is now part of a piece of fading history.
Get a Marlin, a Win, or a Miroku while you can, you won't regret it.

You sure your name isn't dick? For crying out loud who pissed in your post toasties. get a life man!

I bought a new Marlin Guide Gun and it felt it was a fine rifle. After about 2 years and much shooting, I traded it in on a Winchester 1886 EL. I've never regretted that decision. Is still have the 1886.

Well,

Based on your post above- I could say the same to you.

Thanks SO MUCH for your constructive addition to this thread.

Ouch that hurt and was intelligent..... not. You really don't know anything about anyone here. Yet you profess to walk on water about your knowledge on this subject. Instead of really reading the post and trying actually comprehend , you jump to conlcusions and began tossing insults. I wouldn't say you have made any contributions to this thread. Just spewed a lot of vitriolic bullschitt.

I would venture to say, as I know who sharpsguy is and even not knowing you at all, that he has a bit more experience in shooting the 45/70 and such.

BTW I have both an 1895 and an 1886. For general hunting I'll take the 1895 everytime.

Well said elkhunter. A guy expresses his opinion and then some a-hole comes along and tells him his opinion is wrong! The guy needs to lighten up.

[quote=elkhunter76]Ouch that hurt and was intelligent..... not. You really don't know anything about anyone here. Yet you profess to walk on water about your knowledge on this subject. Instead of really reading the post and trying actually comprehend , you jump to conlcusions and began tossing insults. I wouldn't say you have made any contributions to this thread. Just spewed a lot of vitriolic bullschitt.

I would venture to say, as I know who sharpsguy is and even not knowing you at all, that he has a bit more experience in shooting the 45/70 and such.

BTW I have both an 1895 and an 1886. For general hunting I'll take the 1895 everytime. [/quote}

E,

At first, I was puzzled why anyone would dredge up a 6 week old post here.

Especially given the lack of response to it on this thread since then.

Now, I seen your agenda.

You like the 45-70 Marlins -good for you. They are a good gun and I have no problem with them. The several I have owned and shot have been good guns.

I ALSO have expereince with a half dozen Browning 86 levers over the last 23 years. In that time ,I have never seen or heard of an inaccurate one -rifle or carbine. Which I why I made the statement I did.

As far as "Vitriole" goes--

Based on your recent "contribution" on this thread- your hypocracy on that matter is astounding..

Quite frankly I didn't even look at the date. I just happened to read the thread and responded to what I read. I have no agenda other than responding to your posts. BTW the word is hypocrisy...you might look up the definition before you try to use it in a sentence.

Also never said I didn't like the 1886, just said I like my Marlin better for the hunting I do. Get over yourself. But you won't because you are the type that will continue to post to justify yourself and point. Adios!

And I see you are!

Liar24's brother perhaps?

No, not hardly.

But based on your posts here you seem to be his identical twin.

GFY.

FWIW, I sold the 45-70 Browning 1886 SRC today. A buddy of mine wanted it, and asked what I would take for it. I told him 600 bucks out the door, and that it wouldn't shoot a cast bullet. He said that he would give it a try with some jacketed bullets, and if it wouldn't shoot for him, he would send it on down the line. At least at that price, he won't get hurt.

Sharpsguy,

If he cannot get it to shoot, tell him to contact me.

I will give him that price and $100 to boot.

jim62--Will do. He may get it to shoot. The thing is, I don't shoot jacketed bullets, and it wouldn't touch any of the four different cast bullets I ran through it. I'll let you know how it works out.

Shallow smokeless rifleing can be touch and go with cast.

Right now I am running 420g Lyman FP bullets cast 20-1 tin lead with a compressed charge of 70g Swiss 3f in my 1886 Browning 26" rifle.

With the factory buckhorns that load will do 1.5" for three straight shots at 100 yards, which is about as good as I can see coarse open sights these days..

Actually, one of my go to loads in my 45-70 Marlin Cowboy is that same 420 grain Lyman FP 457193 over 70 grains of Goex 3f Express. It shoots really well in the Marlin as well as my Sharps and Remington rollers, but this 1886 wouldn't touch it. It was the first or second load I tried in the '86, as I keep a hundred or so loaded up.

That is an effective load, accurate and more than powerful enough for elk, yet the recoil level is low. I think it is really a good load for these light lever guns.

I've owned both and while the nostalgia and romance of the Winchester name puts the 86 and 71 above the Marlin the most accurate and easy to shoot lever action I've ever owned was a Marlin 95 GS which would keep 5 inside 2" at 200 yards. Yet the hardest kicker was the 71 I owned for about 5 years. The Ruger #1 in 45/70 with 50,000 PSI loads, it destroyed two scopes btw, was no where near as bad as that 71 was with factory ST loads.

For those of you who love your 86/71 thats great and I'm happy for you but as for me just hand over my beloved little Marlin.

Maybe this is a stupid question but can you shoot 100 of them without fouling your weapon so badly that the law of diminishing returns kicks in?

There are ways--but as a practical matter, you can't shoot 100 consecutive rounds of any thing, smokeless or black through a Marlin or 1886 and have it continue to shoot accurately. The small barrels get pretty hot pretty quick. I suspect cranking 100 rounds through any lever gun would get it too hot to shoot and would possibly damage the barrel. I know 15 quick rounds or so will get the barrel on the Marlin hot enough that you can't hold the barrel in your hand.

I'm not talking about getting it hot due to quick shooting. I'm asking about fouling specifically.