24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
P
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
P
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
Folks,

I'd be interested to know if anyone here has used the Federal Fusion line of ammunition successfully in Africa. Any experiences would be most appreciated. I see that Federal is introducing a 180-gr Fusion loading for the 35 Whelen this year and thought it might make a nice choice for light to medium-size PG, especially at longer ranges. With a listed muzzle velocity of 2700 FPS, I can't help but think this would do well on Leopard as well.

Thanks in advance for any insights.


I'm becoming more tolerant of intolerant people.
GB1

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
I tested the prototypes before the bullet ever came out. If memory serves, I shot 38 or 39 kudu as well as several impalas and duikers with a 180-grain .308. It worked splendidly. I only recovered one bullet, and that from a kudu cow shot chest-on after more than 3 feet of penetration. I have since used the production 165-grain .308 and the 200-grain .338 Federal loads to cull kudu several times. Both work splendidly. What I like about them is they work well on small, thin-skinned game while still giving me plenty of penetration for the big stuff.


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,643
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,643
I've never hunted Africa, but my buddies and I have used the Fusion bullet (.243 and 7-08) on many CA deer and pigs with excellent results. Good penetration, expansion and high retained weights. I have no doubt that the results on plains game and leopard would be equally good. A great value!


Kevin Haile
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,871

pinotguy I would have thought that they would be loading 180gr.
to a higher velocity than that in the 35Whelen, just my 2 cents.
More like 2775-2828fps. is what I would expect. Cheers NC



don't judge until you have walked a mile in other persons' moccasins'
SUM QUOD SUM........HOMINEM TE ESSE MEMENTO
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,263
S
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
S
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,263
Greg,

I just bought a 338 Federal. I know it's one of your favorites as I read your articles often. Any opinions on the 338 Federal Fusions for Nilgai in South Texas?


Scott
IC B2

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
I honestly wouldn't use my .338 Federal on nilgai. They are just too solid and thick-skinned. I would opt for something with a little more oomph. If you do go with the .338 Federal, go with the 185-grain TSX. I know it's lighter, but it penetrates really well. We shot several Bison with it when I was testing the prototype .338 Federal ammo and it worked great.


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
P
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
P
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by northcountry

pinotguy I would have thought that they would be loading 180gr.
to a higher velocity than that in the 35Whelen, just my 2 cents.
More like 2775-2828fps. is what I would expect. Cheers NC



You know, this was what I thought as well. I can't help but think that maybe this is an ideal velocity for this bullets' performance parameters. If you compare this to some of the other 35 Whelen factory loads, it comes across as pretty anemic. It sounds like it would still perform well enough in situations that don't require a tough, bonded bullet.


I'm becoming more tolerant of intolerant people.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,737
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,737
You can search this site for a review of these bullets from a 30/06 in RSA on dozens of species.

There very low velocity, designed for deer and any 30/06 made. The 165's were only 2750fps if memory serves me and the handloads used with all my other ammo was well in excess of 2900. The bullets segments recovered were smaller then any premium bullet made today.

The were a dismal failure on all the heavier game shot. Great from the 30/06 when animals were under 250-300 pounds or fragile like Kudu for example. However when you start trying to kill Zebra, wildebeest, waterbuck, eland, etc. I would opt for a much stronger bullet loaded to functional maximum in your rifle.

It's a great design and works like a dream on small big game or fragile animals. I would not choose them for the bigger and much tougher species.


www.huntingadventures.net
Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die?
When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Originally Posted by JJHACK
You can search this site for a review of these bullets from a 30/06 in RSA on dozens of species.

There very low velocity, designed for deer and any 30/06 made. The 165's were only 2750fps if memory serves me and the handloads used with all my other ammo was well in excess of 2900. The bullets segments recovered were smaller then any premium bullet made today.

The were a dismal failure on all the heavier game shot. Great from the 30/06 when animals were under 250-300 pounds or fragile like Kudu for example. However when you start trying to kill Zebra, wildebeest, waterbuck, eland, etc. I would opt for a much stronger bullet loaded to functional maximum in your rifle.

It's a great design and works like a dream on small big game or fragile animals. I would not choose them for the bigger and much tougher species.


JJ,

I'm shocked. I have recovered few Fusions and all the ones I did recover typically retained 80-85% of their weight - not true premium bullet performance but plenty good. I've used them to take an awful lot of kudu with no problems whatsoever. Did the ones you saw in action actually break apart?


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,737
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,737
Yes they did, but remember that Kudu are just a big whitetail for structure and will to live. Shoot something heavy and solid and the difference is drastic. I would not hesitate to shoot a deer or Kudu, but they were not at all impressive to me on heavy strong solid build game like Zeba wilddebeest eland, and waterbuck.


www.huntingadventures.net
Are you living your life, or just paying bills until you die?
When you hit the pearly gates I want to be there just to see the massive pile of dead 5hit at your feet. ( John Peyton)
IC B3

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 93
K
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
K
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 93
JJHack is being very professional. On our last hunt, clients shooting a premium M-70 rifle with Fusion .338 Win Mag ammo spent a lot of time looking for (and finding) cripples. Everything shot with custom 30-06 loads and BTX 165s was DRT and we went joyously on with our days. The fusion bullets were difficult to find and they eventually gave up and shot my 30-06 and JJs 30-06 with fine results. One guys one time observation. Personally--my preference is the M-61A1 nose mounted with HEI. Good results.


The F-4 Phantom II is the standard of excellence that all modern fighters are measured by. Sign on the wall at the factory in St. Louis.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
I agree with that. That's why I use the TBBC and A-Frame so much in my own guns, and why I load my kids' .260 with the 120-grain TSX even though it shoots the Fusion so well. I think you could kill those tougher animals just fine with the Fusion and good shot placement, but tougher bullets are a better choice for them.


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
To start with if your going to shoot the larger animals then use the 180 gr. bullet in the 30-06, not the 165 and if you shooting a .338 then use a 250 gr. bullet or a 300 gr. bullet on big stuff...Those bullets will work fine on all game..

I have not used the fusions but I would bet dollars to donuts that I wouldn't leave any wounded plainsgame around with them in the heavy bullets. I have use the old bullets of yesterday such as the corelokts, Silvertips and Sierras and Hornadays on all the big plainsgame animals and never had any trouble and I would think the fusion would be a better bullet...

but I do agree that both the 165 in the 06 and the 200 in the 338 is not a very good choice for animals like Eland and Blue Wildebeest for most part..I also know that Greg R is an excellent shot and probably placed his shots with excellent precision and that makes up for about anything in the killing dept.

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Thanks for the kind words, Ray. I do alright and have never found the Fusion lacking, though I've always done my part when shooting them. However, Federal is very clear that the Fusion is a deer bullet, and they do not recommend its use on big, stoutly-built critters. I've had great luck on kudu, but those were all culling trips with an odd trophy thrown in here and there. I shoot tougher bullets when I'm trophy hunting.



Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
A
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
A
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 6,954
Your welcome Greg, and btw I have found the Kudu, although a wonderful and beautiful game animal and one of my all time favorite animals to hunt, quite soft and easy to kill..He can't take much punishment as a rule and I am sure their are exceptions if one gets wounded and pumped up with adrenaline.

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,516
Originally Posted by pinotguy

I see that Federal is introducing a 180-gr Fusion loading for the 35 Whelen this year and thought it might make a nice choice for light to medium-size PG, especially at longer ranges.
Thanks in advance for any insights.


If longer ranges means 250 to 300 yards, the 180 grain 35 Whelen loading should work fine, but if longer ranges means over 300 yards, the wind is going to kill you. Per the manufacturer (see at below link), wind drift for that load with a 10 mph cross wind is 11" at 300 yds and 21" at 400 yds - that is really lousy wind drift. That wind drift at 300 yds is what I expect of a good long-range cartridge at 100 yards farther.

Fusion Ammo 35 Whelen 180 gr webpage

Additionally, the velocity at 300 yds is only 1912 fps, which I suspect is not far from the minimum recommended impact velocity, so that 180 grain Fusion 35 Whelen load is more like a 300-yard round than a 400-yard round.

If you are looking for long-range performance from a .35 Whelen, take a look at the 225 or 250-grain Partition (or Accubond) or some other bullet with a ballistic coefficient above 0.4. Loaded to its max with any of the Nosler 225+ grain bullets, the Whelen is a 400-yard cartridge in the hands of someone who can put the bullet where it needs to go.

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
P
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
P
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,666
Hi RR,

I was definitely thinking of ranges inside 300 yds. The large majority of African hunting is done well within this distance and I wouldn't feel comfortable taking a shot past the 300 yd. marker. My initial feeling on this load was that it would be a nice complementary choice for safaris that presented differing terrain and vegetation - a lot of Namibia, the Eastern Cape in RSA, etc.

I am in total agreement regarding a heavier bullet in the Whelen. A bonded premium bullet in the 225-250 grain weight would be nearly ideal for thicker bushveld or savana-like setting, IMO.


I'm becoming more tolerant of intolerant people.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 375
Have you tried Federal's Bear Claw load? I stashed a bunch of them a few years ago for a Whelen that really loves them and I have had great success with them on big stuff.


Greg Rodriguez
Global Adventure Outfitters, Inc.
www.mbogo.net
(281) 494-4151
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,090
So what is a good bullet then guys? I am planning a trip in the next year to go after plains game. There are so many bullets on the market today and most claim the same great penetration and bullet characteristics! I tried those copper bullets but they don't shoot well in my two rifles.

I get good accuracy with those Nosler partition bullets and Swift A-frame bullets. So I must ask the question guys, are these good enough bullets to get the job done on African animals? Mr. Hack, what kind or type of bullet do you use for those Zebra and Wildebeast?


Thank Our Veterans!
GOD Bless Them All

UNIONS BUILDING AMERICA, SALUTE ALL THE UNION TRADESMAN

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
Offline
Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,300
Likes: 1
Tonk, both Nosler Partitions and Swift A-Frames will perform well for you on PG...either one works great!

Ingwe


"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

590 members (160user, 16penny, 10ring1, 007FJ, 1badf350, 17CalFan, 53 invisible), 2,944 guests, and 1,272 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,192,489
Posts18,490,354
Members73,972
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.168s Queries: 54 (0.010s) Memory: 0.9088 MB (Peak: 1.0158 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-05-05 03:02:42 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS