Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Sneak Peek--SS1-4X24HD FFP Prototype!

Beat me too it Terry!!

I've followed JonA's posts for many years and he's as reputable as they come and I'd have complete confidence in a product he's given a favorable recommendation for. Others may have differing tastes/preferences/opinions but that doesn't mean that this new scope is crap. As stated, I'd say a hands-on comparision would be in order before disregarding it as a legitimate offering at a competetive price-point.

FWIW - I'll be in the market for an IR 1-4x before too long and I honestly would've never given the SS a look if it weren't for this post but now I'll definitely give them a look when it's time to buy.

Thanks for the heads-up.....

it will be crap indeed if it is not mounted with LaRue mounts and rings.

Possibly. If they can keep the price lower it certainly will be an even bigger hit. We'll have to see how it all shakes out.

The NF is a very nice scope, but the reticles that will be available that will be both fast at close range and precise at long range, the glass quality, lack of tunnel vision, the eye relief, illumination brightness, etc, are going to make the SS tough to not choose if the price is much lower at all. IMHO anyway.

No E, the scope's focus doesn't change as the magnification is increased. The glass is fantastic in this scope in all respects.

Taking pics through a scope showing the reticle and the view both in decent focus is not the easiest thing in the world to do. Some pics come out sharper than others. I can only do my best.

IIRC, the last time you criticized one of my through the scope pics (back when I used to waste my time in the Optics Section) you were invited to post some pics of your own that you had taken and you declined.

So no, there is nothing wrong with the optical system. Sorry to disappoint you.

This close enough?

School me.

What advantage does a 1x scope have over a 1.5x scope?

Actual 1x magnification works better for both eyes open shooting on the move. Though most can use the 1.5 power without issue. It should be noted that even the S&B short dot is actauly 1.1x. An Aimpoint or Eo-tech are examples of true 1x or no magnification. Heres a link with some good reference though JonA doesn't agree, he doesn't even lump the 1.5-5 in with the 1-4 scopes even though it's actual magnification range is 1.5-4.5.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=466897
note the "ruler of truth"
No ones ever said for sure what this scope is, just as close as you can get.

Now let me say that this scope looks promising I'd like to see a stronger reticle on 1x just in case the batteries die, the fine lines don't look very bold to me and at 1x precision is second to speed. (not saying you don't have to aim)

I have also heard speculation of a $900 price tag by another reviewer and find it suprising since Chris stated his goal was to give a better option the the Millet DMS yet be comparable in price. Guess he got carried away.

Still need to know battery life and if it's IR is visible in the full sun but I doubt I'll get any answers.

I see. I would say that the "true" 1X is highly overrated, at least in my experience.

Yes, I disagree because it's wrong. The "ruler of truth" tells fibs. That is simply not a correct way to measure magnification and gives incorrect results.

That reticle is still a prototype, and there will be others available. So don't worry, there will not be any scope anwywhere that is faster at close range with the illumination off. That's one of the most important design goals.

No, you misunderstood. He did once say he cringed when a Soldier or Marine bought a Millett to take overseas and many did so because they wanted a simple, easy to use reticle.

But the bar was never set that low for this scope--not even close. Quite the opposite. Millett is crap. Made in China. Quality and durability well below that of the old style "cheap" Super Snipers. The HD line is a totally different ballgame.

For this scope, goals of Nightforce+ quality at Leupold- price is a more accurate description. When you cut out the giant markup added by the manufacturers when they stamp their names on the side, such things are possible. The HD line is about offering a really, really, really high quality scopes at affordable prices. Most certainly not competing with Millett.

I hope you had your lower lip puckered out and a tear in your eye when you typed that for full effect.

I haven't heard of any official testing results on the battery life from the factory. When I do, I'll let you know.

As I already said, the illumination is daytime visible but it won't glow brightly like a short dot in full sun. You can see it's there, the reticle is red, but it doesn't help speed. But the reticles offered won't need it in order to be fast in such conditions.

Quote, "I see. I would say that the "true" 1X is highly overrated, at least in my experience."

Remember the ACOGs use the Binden Aiming Concept with a 4 power scope but you need a bright dot to catch your eye and shoot with both eyes open, basicly seeing the target with your left eye and the dot with the right eye. That's the magic of an Aimpoint or Eo-tech and where the 1-4 scopes try to be both a fast close up sight as well as providing some magnification for the longer ranges. Still probably a compromise on each end.

Quote, "I hope you had your lower lip puckered out and a tear in your eye when you typed that for full effect."

No tears here just asking questions, you couldn't just leave the dot on and see for yourself how long it burns?

Are you still calling it a "true 1x scope"?

Quote, "Millett is crap. Made in China."

At least we can agree to this.

Well, unless I carry it around with me all day and sleep with it, I'd be likely not to notice exactly when it burns out so my accuracy would be limited. Most likely I'd forget about it. I'd rather give no info than inaccurate info. Somebody at the factory will get paid to do this accurately. I'd rather let them.

Yes. Why wouldn't I?

I am with Jon on this whole "ruler of truth" business.

It mostly demonstrates general incompetence of the person who came up with that method. You can not measure magnification of a focusing optic that way. That simply does not work.

ILya

The whole point of it is you can't compare a scope with an eo-tech or Aimpoint, those are "true" 1x optics. Scopes can't be true 1x or no magnification at every range.

But everyone is welcome to their opinion.

A couple of comments:
1) when the distance to your target is a lot larger than the length of the scope, a 1x focusing sight offers effectively the same image size as a non-focusing sight. For practical purposes, targets more than 10-12ft away effectively appear unmagnified. So yes, you can compare.
2) when using a focusing sight like a 1-4x24 on 1x, you should be keeping both eyes open, in which case you brain makes sure that everything appears to have unity magnification.

ILya

I would note that parralax and eye/head placement slip in here somewhere and BAC even works on a 4x ACOG as long as the dot is bright enough.

Using it as a scope I agree it makes no difference but it does not have all the benefits of a true 1x red dot.

Yes bindon works at 3x or 4x for an ACOG, but it takes practice and *continued* practice, at least for me and my 3x ACOG. It's easier at 1x, for me.

Ok folks, I took a ton of pics of the new reticles. It is my understanding that these two will are the final production designs of the first two that will be offered with the scope. A BDC type will possibly be added later, but for now these are it. The first:









This reticle is much like the last one but with the small posts in the middle solid instead of hollow. This makes it better to use on 1X with less of a "large empty center" and I find it makes it faster/easier to use on 4X as well as those hollow posts just didn't get the job done.

The next reticle is designed to be a bit faster at close range on 1X:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0113.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0006.JPG[/img]

This particular prototype version has a bit of illumination overrun on the bottom post but that shouldn't be there for the production scopes.

I figured it would be helpful to compare these to popular comparing models:





At the range in the sun, 1X illumination off:

Shortdot:



NF:



SS:



Other SS:



With illumination:

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0061.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0051.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0030.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0041.JPG[/img]

4X Illumination off:









Illumination on:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0031.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0040.JPG[/img]

Now for a closer range comparison. 10 yards in decent light, illumination off:

Shortdot:



NF:



SS:



Other SS:



Illumination on:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0170.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0167.JPG[/img]

Complete darkness with weapons light (standard 60 lumen LED G2):

Illumination off:









Illumination on:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0043.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0039.JPG[/img]