Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Sneak Peek--SS1-4X24HD FFP Prototype!

Here's some info on an upcoming scope many of you will be interested in. First of all, don't pay any attention to the reticle. The production reticle was not ready so they stuck this prototype in there just to get a couple built so the optics/mechanics, etc, could be tested. And those tests it passes with flying colors.

The production reticle will be many times as thick such that it is very fast to use on 1X.

As you can see from the pics, it's a TRUE 1X on the low end, so it should be close to red-dot-fast for CQB, both eyes open shooting with the proper reticle. The glass is exceptional, amazingly bright for a 24mm objective and very sharp. There is no distortion or tunnel effect on any power.

The turrets are excellent, with 10 mils per turn you can do anything you'd want to do with an AR and a 4X scope on a single turn of the turret.

I had a chance to take it to the range today. Here are some shots:

I tested on two different AR's:



And although it's not exactly the type of rifle this scope is meant for, my 6.5 is the most accurate so it had to get some playtime as well:



And it didn't disappoint. Here are two groups from 300 yds, measuring 1.7" and 2.2":



Pretty decent for a 4X at that range.

The glass was very impressive. I was actually able to see a couple 22 caliber holes at 100 yds through it. Not many and not very well naturally, but that was pretty impressive for a 4X.

4X at 100 yds:



4X at 300 yds:



1X:




I can't wait to get my hands on one with the new reticle. Other than that, I'm very impressed so far. A couple more beauty shots:

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/PICT0107.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/PICT0105.JPG[/img]

JonA, now that's what I'm talkin about ! Lol. Really, that's one fine scope; the results speak loudly of it's worth . Looks are one thing, results are the core of it. Can you tell us more? Like how will we find one ? Any other magnifications? Price range?I think you said reticules are going to be different,right? Would also love to know how you posted the great picts ! Charles

I assume that's SWFA Super Sniper scope?

Is that a knob for an illuminated reticle?

What round/load are the other circle dots set for or will the new reticle be void of them since it has turrets as well?

Any idea of a price yet?

That's good shooting BTW, reguardless of scope.

They should be available from the manufacturer fairly soon. I don't know exactly when though.

Yes, they have recently added a 3-9X40 FFP and a fixed 10X42 HD to their lineup. These are a big step up in quality (and price) from their original fixed 10X, 16X, and 20X--those are still available though.



Good lighting.

Yup.



Yup.



The illumination works very nicely and is daytime bright--though not as bright as a Short Dot, etc. The new reticle should make it brighter but it's hard to say how much. Regardless the reticle will be sized such that it is fast to use on 1X even without illumination.

They were for M855 ball. Of course, just because the BDC is there doesn't mean you have to use it. In the end to keep everybody happy I think they'll offer two reticles, one with a BDC and one with simple mil lines for those bothered by the BDC.



I'd expect a bit more than the current 3-9 SS. Making the optics of a true 1X, not to mention doing it extremely well, is not easy or cheap. This is meant to compete with the high end 1-4's but at a much better price.



Thanks.

Nice, may have to put one of those on my wish list.

Ok, so good lighting.That's not hard with today's cameras. What camera? How did you post the pics here? What pixil setting? And, what 6.5 ? THat's a fine group for 300 yds !Charles

30mm tube or 1" ? A ball park price would be nice.

What is the eye relief on 1X? Positive clicks?

It's an old Minolta Dimage, only 3.2 Mp, but it still takes good pics. You post pics here by hosting them somewhere on the internet and using the [img][/img] tags. The rifle is a 6.5 Grendel.

It's a 30mm tube. I can't do any more than speculate on price, but if that'll suffice I'd put it somewhere in the $600-$900 range.

The clicks are very positive and firm with a very high quality feel to them. In addition to range work I did a multitude of tracking tests with a collimator as I do with all tactical scopes and tracking was perfect.

I haven�t put that much effort into it, but a quick flashlight measure shows the eye relief to be around 4�. For NTCH shooters the Recon X or the SPR-E will probably be best. This scope actually has enough eye relief it would be useable on a hard kicking bolt action.

It's a 30mm tube. I can't do any more than speculate on price, but if that'll suffice I'd put it somewhere in the $600-$900 range.

Well, if it is in that price range, I think I will stick with the Leupolds in the same power range.
Thanks for the heads up and hopefully it will be a good and durable scope.

Yep, I'll stick with the Leupolds for that kind of dough.

Be sure you're comparing apples to apples. Leupold's closest competitor to this, the Mark 4 1.5-5x20mm MR/T M2 Illum. SPR, goes for $900 and this is a better scope in about every way. A more fair comparison is with the NightForce NXS 1-4x24 NP1/FC2 which runs $1200.

Opinions vary.

A lot.............made in J A pan or here for the same money or a fair bit more...I'll choose here every time.

Where have you heard differing opinions? I'd like to hear them as well.

I agree, the NF 1-4X24 is an outstanding scope and will come marked "Made in the USA" but it costs quite a bit more. US Optics makes a couple very nice 1-4X's also Made in the USA but again, they're more expensive. All the rest of the top scopes are made overseas. I highly encourage buying those scopes for those who want to buy US products.

If you were talking about the Leupold, I think you will be disappointed when you look for the "Made in the USA" label.

That's a lot of $$ for a "super sniper" scope. Leupold's (while not perfect) scopes have been proven all over the world in some pretty ugly places and conditions.

This is just me talking, but the name "super sniper" causes me to immediately be inclined to disregard it. Much like I would disregard anything with a name like "Dark Ops" or "Extreme Ammo".

I don't buy hype.

So what's your connection to SS or SWFA?

My opinion is from my own experience looking through the SS line, it didn't impress me much and unless they've improved greatly, they have a long way to go to compare with Leupold.

I've used Leupold for a long time without issue. It's gonna be hard for me to change to a no-name scope and pay more money or even the same. Other than the occasional mention on snipers hide and the swfa forum, the SS line gets no praise elsewhere and even where it does it's a cheaper alternative to Leupold. I hope they don't expect to be swarmed by the masses...

JonA, I have spent 45+ years using optic's and have in my stable, Leupolds,Redfields,Burris,Leica,Nightforce,US Optic's and tried the SS series in the 16 and 20X. To my eyes the SS series are about the same quality of the Vortex brand. Really know nothing to SS warranty but I do know about Leupold,Leica and USO's warranty and they are second to no one.
I really do hope it is a quality product but I don't see it being an azz kicker to Leupold,Nightforce,USO.

Discounting a product because you don't like its name and you lack of knowledge about it, is of course, something you're perfectly free to do, even if it does lack logic or rationale.

I was sent the prototype for testing and evaluation. There is still time for some minor design changes before production begins (like the reticle, etc) so my input was solicited.


I'm sorry guys, I guess I didn't realize so many were unaware of SS's new models. Comparing the old fixed 10X, 16X, and 20X to the new models is analogous to comparing a VX-I to a Mark 4 Leupold. These new models are share nothing in common other than the name, they share no parts, they're made in a different factory to an entirely different level of quality that yes, compared side by side, blows Leupold away in most respects. I really suggest looking at them before forming an opinion about them.

This post was really meant as a heads-up to those who may be planning on buying a 1-4X NF, USO, S&B Short dot, Meopta K-Dot, etc, or other high-end 1-4X to let them know there will be another choice available soon. I don't know how the subject got turned to Leupold as they don't even make a 1-4X so comparisons are less than useful.

"I don't know how the subject got turned to Leupold as they don't even make a 1-4X so comparisons are less than useful."

If you did any reading here, you'd know that there's probably a dozen 1.5-5's used by us. Some with IR and some without. But since you're the first one to cassify a 1-4 to exclude the 1.5-5, I agree, the Leupold 1-4 VXII is not much of a scope but they do make a 1-4. And no it's not a true 1-4, neither is the short dot... Would like to see the SS on 1x with a line a few inches away and showing the view through the scope and around it, to see how close it is to true 1x.

I still think it's overpriced if it goes for $600 but I hope it's as good as you say.

Also, how long is the battery life and what battery does it use?

As are plenty of 2.5-8�s, 3-9�s, and various red dots I�m sure, but those aren�t 1-4�s either. For those wanting true 1X, or even close to it on the bottom end (for �unity magnification�), 1.5X does not satisfy the requirement. They�re apples and oranges. Sure, the scopes can be used for many of the same things, there is much overlap in the application, but a 1.5X scope is not an equal substitute for 1X.



This is not a correct method of evaluating the magnification of a magnified optic. For a scope, the distance begins at its objective lens, for the camera (or your eye) the distance begins at the camera�s objective lens (or your eye). For something a few inches away, you�re looking at it from two significantly different distances so naturally it will look different. For a 1X optic, this difference becomes un-noticeable as distance increases such that the length of the scope itself becomes insignificant. As you can see from the 1X pic above, for those timbers, at no more than a few yards away and everything beyond there is no detectable magnification. This is as true 1X as it gets.

For most RDS�s, which have no comparable optical system (the glass pretty much amounts to �windows� through which you are looking) they will look as you expect from only inches away (though many have distortion of one sort or another). No scope will do that--unless actually less than 1X in which case verything beyond the certain distance where it looks like 1X will be �shrunk� (you see this a fair amount with the cheaper 1-4X scopes on the market).



And I would have to ask again, based upon what? If based upon actual use someday, I�d hate to think how overpriced you would think the NF is at $1200. Much less the Leupold at $900. If you don�t think the Leupold is overpriced at $900, my best advice is to never compare it side by side with one of these so you can happily keep thinking that.



It uses a CR2032, the same as virtually every other illuminated scope out there. Battery life, I don�t know yet. I'll have to find out and get back to you.

Whatever....

Did you have some sort of problem reading the answer the first time?

nope not gonna do it...

You too will see the benefit when you see the final reticle.

Then again, maybe you will not, as you seem perfectly happy providing opinions on things with which you have no experience and products which you've never seen, much less used. I guess it's not just a couple people in the Optics section who make a habit of doing that.

Maybe I will...

Look, I may not have looked through this sooper sniper version but let's get something clear. The fundamentals of a low powered scope remain the same. I'm all for turrets and ranging reticles but if you're gonna range a distant target where a turret is needed, you will crank it up to 4x.

It is what it is and no amount of gadgetry will make it anything more. I'll stick with a proven product until I need a Short Dot, you can save the sales pitch.

JonA, nice folks here but very opinionated. You've shown grace under pressure. Keep to the high road, it suits you well.

Terry

Thanks Terry. I really have no problem with strong opinions, provided they are based upon something.

Jon: HOw many degrees of rotation to get from 1X to 4X? Looks like this scope may be directed to the 3-gun market. Any thoughts about installing a cat-tail or more pronounced power ring?

Also, does the scope come with Zero-stops or the equivalent?

About 180. A cat-tail should work very nicely with it. It's nice the illumination knob is on the turret housing so it isn't on the ocular getting in the way, but even so a cat-tail will make it much faster.

No zero stops. Though with 10 Mils per turn it's unlikely you'll ever turn a knob more than one full turn so getting lost is unlikely.

Gentlemen,

Just in case anybody here is interested in what the new reticle looks like, here you go:

On 1X thick heavy posts #4a style, easily visible and fast:



Illumination for more speed:



Crank up to 4X and it becomes a more "long range" reticle with fine lines that won't cover the target and 1 Mil hashes for ranging or holding off elevation/windage:





More pics:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/DSC00353.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/DSC00351.JPG[/img]

oh my. I bet that is spendy

I"ll say this... I'd buy US first if its the same and I have the choice... but for my money, I"ll look at any scope first, without a firm pre formed opinion and then go from there.

I have not been impressed with L quality and usually buy Z conquest since its a better scope for the same money give or take.

Same will go for this one.

Jon- nice write up for a quicky test.

I was wondering if this SWFA product is made by the same Japanese factory that was making the Weaver Classic Extreme.
I have one of those in a 1-4X, 30mm tube with the illuminated German #4 reticle, and think highly of it.

Well i have read this thread a couple of times and the scope looks OK. My question is. What is the final price on this scope?

Sam, I don't know if they make the Weaver, but it's the same factory that makes Nightforce scopes--not the compact and F1 models which are made in the US, but the rest of the line which is made in Japan. Making high quality, extremely tough, durable scopes is nothing new to them.

Bea, no final word on price yet. Sorry.

at $600 it would be a competitor. If its up at $900 most will just go Nightforce. The NF eye relief is short but it is a very tough scope.

How come the reticle looks very sharp on 4X but not on 1X ?
Does the scope's focus change as the magnification is increased ? E

Beat me too it Terry!!

I've followed JonA's posts for many years and he's as reputable as they come and I'd have complete confidence in a product he's given a favorable recommendation for. Others may have differing tastes/preferences/opinions but that doesn't mean that this new scope is crap. As stated, I'd say a hands-on comparision would be in order before disregarding it as a legitimate offering at a competetive price-point.

FWIW - I'll be in the market for an IR 1-4x before too long and I honestly would've never given the SS a look if it weren't for this post but now I'll definitely give them a look when it's time to buy.

Thanks for the heads-up.....

it will be crap indeed if it is not mounted with LaRue mounts and rings.

Possibly. If they can keep the price lower it certainly will be an even bigger hit. We'll have to see how it all shakes out.

The NF is a very nice scope, but the reticles that will be available that will be both fast at close range and precise at long range, the glass quality, lack of tunnel vision, the eye relief, illumination brightness, etc, are going to make the SS tough to not choose if the price is much lower at all. IMHO anyway.

No E, the scope's focus doesn't change as the magnification is increased. The glass is fantastic in this scope in all respects.

Taking pics through a scope showing the reticle and the view both in decent focus is not the easiest thing in the world to do. Some pics come out sharper than others. I can only do my best.

IIRC, the last time you criticized one of my through the scope pics (back when I used to waste my time in the Optics Section) you were invited to post some pics of your own that you had taken and you declined.

So no, there is nothing wrong with the optical system. Sorry to disappoint you.

This close enough?

School me.

What advantage does a 1x scope have over a 1.5x scope?

Actual 1x magnification works better for both eyes open shooting on the move. Though most can use the 1.5 power without issue. It should be noted that even the S&B short dot is actauly 1.1x. An Aimpoint or Eo-tech are examples of true 1x or no magnification. Heres a link with some good reference though JonA doesn't agree, he doesn't even lump the 1.5-5 in with the 1-4 scopes even though it's actual magnification range is 1.5-4.5.
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=466897
note the "ruler of truth"
No ones ever said for sure what this scope is, just as close as you can get.

Now let me say that this scope looks promising I'd like to see a stronger reticle on 1x just in case the batteries die, the fine lines don't look very bold to me and at 1x precision is second to speed. (not saying you don't have to aim)

I have also heard speculation of a $900 price tag by another reviewer and find it suprising since Chris stated his goal was to give a better option the the Millet DMS yet be comparable in price. Guess he got carried away.

Still need to know battery life and if it's IR is visible in the full sun but I doubt I'll get any answers.

I see. I would say that the "true" 1X is highly overrated, at least in my experience.

Yes, I disagree because it's wrong. The "ruler of truth" tells fibs. That is simply not a correct way to measure magnification and gives incorrect results.

That reticle is still a prototype, and there will be others available. So don't worry, there will not be any scope anwywhere that is faster at close range with the illumination off. That's one of the most important design goals.

No, you misunderstood. He did once say he cringed when a Soldier or Marine bought a Millett to take overseas and many did so because they wanted a simple, easy to use reticle.

But the bar was never set that low for this scope--not even close. Quite the opposite. Millett is crap. Made in China. Quality and durability well below that of the old style "cheap" Super Snipers. The HD line is a totally different ballgame.

For this scope, goals of Nightforce+ quality at Leupold- price is a more accurate description. When you cut out the giant markup added by the manufacturers when they stamp their names on the side, such things are possible. The HD line is about offering a really, really, really high quality scopes at affordable prices. Most certainly not competing with Millett.

I hope you had your lower lip puckered out and a tear in your eye when you typed that for full effect.

I haven't heard of any official testing results on the battery life from the factory. When I do, I'll let you know.

As I already said, the illumination is daytime visible but it won't glow brightly like a short dot in full sun. You can see it's there, the reticle is red, but it doesn't help speed. But the reticles offered won't need it in order to be fast in such conditions.

Quote, "I see. I would say that the "true" 1X is highly overrated, at least in my experience."

Remember the ACOGs use the Binden Aiming Concept with a 4 power scope but you need a bright dot to catch your eye and shoot with both eyes open, basicly seeing the target with your left eye and the dot with the right eye. That's the magic of an Aimpoint or Eo-tech and where the 1-4 scopes try to be both a fast close up sight as well as providing some magnification for the longer ranges. Still probably a compromise on each end.

Quote, "I hope you had your lower lip puckered out and a tear in your eye when you typed that for full effect."

No tears here just asking questions, you couldn't just leave the dot on and see for yourself how long it burns?

Are you still calling it a "true 1x scope"?

Quote, "Millett is crap. Made in China."

At least we can agree to this.

Well, unless I carry it around with me all day and sleep with it, I'd be likely not to notice exactly when it burns out so my accuracy would be limited. Most likely I'd forget about it. I'd rather give no info than inaccurate info. Somebody at the factory will get paid to do this accurately. I'd rather let them.

Yes. Why wouldn't I?

I am with Jon on this whole "ruler of truth" business.

It mostly demonstrates general incompetence of the person who came up with that method. You can not measure magnification of a focusing optic that way. That simply does not work.

ILya

The whole point of it is you can't compare a scope with an eo-tech or Aimpoint, those are "true" 1x optics. Scopes can't be true 1x or no magnification at every range.

But everyone is welcome to their opinion.

A couple of comments:
1) when the distance to your target is a lot larger than the length of the scope, a 1x focusing sight offers effectively the same image size as a non-focusing sight. For practical purposes, targets more than 10-12ft away effectively appear unmagnified. So yes, you can compare.
2) when using a focusing sight like a 1-4x24 on 1x, you should be keeping both eyes open, in which case you brain makes sure that everything appears to have unity magnification.

ILya

I would note that parralax and eye/head placement slip in here somewhere and BAC even works on a 4x ACOG as long as the dot is bright enough.

Using it as a scope I agree it makes no difference but it does not have all the benefits of a true 1x red dot.

Yes bindon works at 3x or 4x for an ACOG, but it takes practice and *continued* practice, at least for me and my 3x ACOG. It's easier at 1x, for me.

Ok folks, I took a ton of pics of the new reticles. It is my understanding that these two will are the final production designs of the first two that will be offered with the scope. A BDC type will possibly be added later, but for now these are it. The first:









This reticle is much like the last one but with the small posts in the middle solid instead of hollow. This makes it better to use on 1X with less of a "large empty center" and I find it makes it faster/easier to use on 4X as well as those hollow posts just didn't get the job done.

The next reticle is designed to be a bit faster at close range on 1X:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0113.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0006.JPG[/img]

This particular prototype version has a bit of illumination overrun on the bottom post but that shouldn't be there for the production scopes.

I figured it would be helpful to compare these to popular comparing models:





At the range in the sun, 1X illumination off:

Shortdot:



NF:



SS:



Other SS:



With illumination:

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0061.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0051.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0030.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0041.JPG[/img]

4X Illumination off:









Illumination on:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0031.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0040.JPG[/img]

Now for a closer range comparison. 10 yards in decent light, illumination off:

Shortdot:



NF:



SS:



Other SS:



Illumination on:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0170.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0167.JPG[/img]

Complete darkness with weapons light (standard 60 lumen LED G2):

Illumination off:









Illumination on:





[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0043.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0039.JPG[/img]

Much better.

Any word on battery life?

No word on battery life yet. I asked but they don't have a firm number yet.

I had been meaning to update this for a while now, sorry for the delay, folks. First here are some pics to give you guys an idea what the reticles look like in open-spaces longer range use vs. the close range use of the pictures above. Please forgive some being out of focus--that's not a reflection of the optics of the scopes, I was just not having my best day with the camera.

100 yds, 12" Gong:





200 yds, 12" Gong:





300 yds, 15" Gong:





500 yds, 18X24" Gong:

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0081s.JPG[/img]

[img]http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/SuperSniper/1-4X24/FinalReticles/PICT0102s.JPG[/img]

Personally for this type of use, 100 yd+ on 4X, I like the T reticle better as it simply looks like a good tactical reticle you'd expect to find in a higher powered scope. Though I like the circle reticle better at close range on 1X.

Which one I like better I guess depends upon how I plan to use the scope the most. Luckily either will work for either use very well so it's hard to make a "wrong" choice. They're both very fast on 1X and at 4X both give a clear, uncluttered view of the target and about 25 mils around the target which few 1-4's that are fast on 1X provide.

OK, enough about the reticles. In the time I spent with these, the #2 biggest impression they made on me was the optics--specifically on 1X.

The S&B Short Dot is obviously very good. Despite being rated at 1.1X it's very easy and comfortable for me to use. My mind seems to pretty much cancel the difference in magnification through most of the FOV. Pretty much anything more than a few yards away I can look at with both eyes open and get a nice unity view through the scope--for most of the FOV.

Toward the edges of the FOV I see objects begin to separate and see them double, but only toward the edges. The "sweet spot" where I see objects as single entities is most of the FOV so I can use this scope well without really noticing the edges. There is a blue tint, but you don't really notice it too much unless you're comparing it side by side with the SS so it's not really a problem.

In short, it's hard to find much flaw with the Short Dot, obviously. It's a hell of a scope.

The SS, though, to my eyes provides an even better view on 1X. The "sweet spot" in these scopes is basically the entire FOV. With both eyes open I can track an object from the side, see it "enter the scope tube," track across the FOV and exit the tube with very little noticeable distortion of any sort. They provide the most "looking through the window of an Eotech or Aimpoint" or "looking through an empty tube" view I've seen. With both eyes open you need not do any mental tricks, concentrating on what one eye sees more, to have a very clear and undistorted view as if the scope wasn't there. There's no blue tint either.

The NF was a distant 3rd in this comparison. It's supposed to be a true 1X, so one might expect better. I don't know enough about optics to explain exactly what was the cause but it just doesn't agree with my eyes. With both eyes open I basically see double through it for most of the FOV. There is a small "sweet spot" right above center where objects look singular giving me a comfortable unity view, but it's very small. The rest of the FOV I see double much like I do with a 1.5X, 2X, etc, scope where I have to concentrate on disregarding what one of my eyes sees.

Naturally that makes it pretty uncomfortable and slower to use even disregarding reticle differences. Again, I don't know why or if they look that way to everybody, I can only report what my eyes see.

Anyway, to me the optical prowess of a 1-4X on 1X has to be right up there in importance, maybe only #2 to the reticle/illumination since their purpose is to try and be as close to a red dot in speed as possible. If your brain takes extra time to process what you're seeing, that's a disadvantage.

I guess this is a case where there's more to the story than the spec sheet will tell you. I highly encourage anybody shopping for a 1-4X who plans to use it on 1X much to look through as many models/brands as you can side by side before buying.

Latest word on price (nothing official) is they'll be around $799. They should be available very shortly now but I don't have an exact date.

No official word on battery life, though I did leave them on for days at a time and never killed a battery. The next guy to test these prototypes had one finally die. So sorry, no official number yet but they certainly aren't short lived. And of course one of the strong points of these scopes is they'll still be extremely good without illumination, where by comparison, the Short Dot really needs the illumination to be fast even in broad daylight.

On a 1-4, I think I'd be partial to the circle reticle for quick target aquisition. Might have to squeeze one of those into the mix....thanks for the updates Jon.

That looks pretty damn good. Will have to see where the $$ comes in, though.

No need to wait to see where the price comes in at. They're up on SWFA's site at 799.

Very nice looking scope.

But somehow milliradian adjustments and mill hash marks on the reticle of a 4x scope meant for a weapon that is lucky if it shoots 2MOA makes me snicker.

JonA, I wish that I might have seen this thread earlier, I could have alread been saving up for one.

I think you gave the best review I've ever seen on a scope, all of your through the scope pictures are just great, thank you very much.

I also note that while everyone is entitled to their opinions, those that are based on facts and actual experience are worth far more than those based on conjecture and rumor.

Thanks again for the review, I had seen on of the earlier cheap SS scopes and was unimpressed. I've heard that the newer ones were better but your pictures and reveiw actually demonstrates it, thanks again......................DJ

Everybody here whose AR�s will only shoot 2 MOA if they�re lucky, raise your hands.



Thanks DJ. Yup, the new SS stuff is a whole new ballgame. Here are a couple reviews where the 10X HD is included against some high dollar stuff:

High End Tactical Scopes

High End Tactical Scopes Part II

They've got some more stuff in the pipeline as well. The one I'm waiting for the most is the 5-20X50HD. Just wait until you see this thing....

Great reviews, thanks for posting the links.

I always enjoy what Ilya Koshkin has to say about optics.

I also thought it interesting he was building a 264 LBC like I just did.............................DJ

For anybody interested: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2359334&gonew=1#UNREAD .

Ball ammo, chrome lined carbine barrels w/NATO chambers.

<MOA every time I tell you.

I currently have an Aimpoint and Bushnell Elite 2.5-16 Mil-dot so the "Donut" reticle below would make a nice in between for me.....