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RickyD, I have been making all the gun shows within 100 miles of Dallas for years and visit with all my dealer friends at the shows. You are not the first to report about the little devil that bites the hand that feeds it. The reason for the "BUT" in my earlier post. I think we all love the little "J" Smith but it's becoming more apparent with all every day carriers "little and light" in a rust free piece is desired and the little Kel Tec is filling that need. If I can't hit the subject with my Kel Tec means I have running room, get out of my way!
I finished off a deer a couple of years ago just to see how much power I had in the 32 ACP round with the high dollar ammo. A single head shot 2" behind the eye almost blew the eye out of it's socket from within. That's internal expansion and damage in my book. I would not carry a 32 without much more zap than standard ammo. Like most everyone else I prefer more power but for everyday use, little, light, concealable wins. Just the sight or report of a piece will win most confrontations but inside 30' a can is not safe. I have lazer grips on the 640 and can walk a can in the dirt pit where I shoot. Just installed lazers on the Colt Defender, best insurance policy I can buy especially after dark or in the bedroom. The one problem with the little guns in Dallas is the gangs of four to six in an auto, then a sig high capacity is needed. My business three blocks from Fair Park commands something larger than the Kel Tec but I will be parking cars for Saturdays Cotton Bowl football game on my lots and will have my little companion with me. -- no

Terry, it's been many years since I've heard anyone call a sap a sap. Kinda like when I went to my AF instructor Convention this October, they now call a chow hall a "dinning facility", WOW times do change. -- no <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Many years I carried a Colt LW Officer's 45 ACP in a Galco concealable and IWB. Sometimes in the small of my back.

Tomcat. I like the Kel-tec but they bite my hand. Not sure if it is my hand shape, (short and fat) or the way I grip a pistol. Whatever, they will draw blood. The tomcat doesn't.

BCR

Chalk me up for revolvers, a S&W Mod 38 Airweight or, in the woods, a 3" Mod 60. I looked at the Scandium Airlites when they first came out, but that aluminum alloy Airweight I have seems light enough, plus there was a warning about lead bullets pulling under recoil in the Scandiums. Almost all my practice is with cheap 158 grain lead reloads.

Actually, if TSHTF I'd rather be holding a semi-auto, but with a revolver there ain't no springs to worry about, and they FEEL more reliable, even if the stats might not back that up.

Plus my wife and son can use them easily, and everyone can see that they're loaded.

Preferred carry ammo in the city, even with the .357 Mod 60, is .38 plusP 158 grain LSWHP. In the woods/mountains that Mod 60 is likely to be loaded with the heaviest-constructed .357 bullet (usually 180 grain) I can find. This to get penetration on potential point-blank range feral hogs, dogs, lions or bear.

On both I have the Uncle Mikes Combat Grip, fatter and an inch longer than the Boot Grips, but a worthwhile trade-off IMHO, the bigger grips providing far more consistent indexing in the hand when grabbed in a hurry.

Birdwatcher

Birdwatcher

Birdie, (as Boggy says), sorry I missed you last October but couldn't get to the drill. Perhaps we can meet next October. I invite you to come to the Red Roof Inn Pool Party,(no swimming). I enjoy your posts and I am sure everyone else does also.
The J frame is a standard but for convience many are switching to a "better than nothing" piece. -- no

T LEE - Glad to hear you testify. I've had two Scandium S&W's one a J-Frame .357 and the other the 7-shot K-Frame.
Neither was even pleasant with +P .38s. I'll stick with my 642 and 640 for carry J-Frames.

I have the new rubber overmolded CTC Laser Grips on the 642 and 640. In addition to the laser sight the grips are very good ergonomically and absorb pretty stiff recoil.

NO... yepper. October it is, and it will be here before we know it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Norm, welcome to the club, had two quadruples myself and still going strong. Knew you were a savy guy. I had to remove the clipdraw to install the Crimson Trace Lazer Grips on the Colt Defender. Now looking for a good holster and may go with a slide. What you think Terry? I do like the inside the pants carry though, no hang-ups, no inquiring hands to worry about. -- no

Birdie, say hello to Ken for me. -- no - AKA - Sonnie

The CT's won't let you use the Clipdraw? Bummer, I would look for an Alessi "hideout" or a Milt Sparks "Summer Special" or "executive companion" then. All three are excellant IWB holders, I just can't get next to the slides, might as well do "mexican" with a big rubber band around the handle!

RJM - "Having been in LE for over 25 years and a CC Instructor for 15 years I can advise you that the last person you want to take gun advise from is a police officer. 95+% know less about shooting and handguns than 99% of the people on this board. Depending on the community 95%+ do not carry a gun off duty on a regular basis. 25+% fail their qualifcation on a regular basis."
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That is a pretty general comment, kinda like all hunters are blood thirsty murderers. I have been in Law Enforcement for 8 years now and never failed to qualify at above what our SWAT team is required to shoot at. (Lead Firearms Instructor, instructs for Gunsight too) I have been carrying guns since I was old enough to walk and shoot at least 10,000 rounds a year or more. I shoot in Cowboy Action, local 3 gun, Sporting Clays, Long Range Rifle and Hunting anywhere and anytime. What you talk about is that there are some LE folks that have little to no experience and fail to qualify. They are in LE because they always wanted to be as a kid, some are in it because it was a calling. A person should watch those generalizations as it puts a blanket over everyone. Some get into LE without knowing what is required and what it takes to survive. I carry damn near 24/7 in Colorado weather from 100 degrees to below freezing and feel I have something to contribute since it is something I do everyday. The other point that might need to be made is, how often does the general public thats carrying right now, have to qualify. An honest to god someone else is scoring their hits qual. How many actually set up a combat course, multiple targets, getting out of a vehicle, barricades, weapon transfer, malfunctions, timed and then count up your kill shots.....Or is it stationary target at 7 yds, draw from the holster and get your hits from there. Think about it, your up at the range and you "Pretty much" get them all in the A Box or the ten ring. I shoot a qualification 5 times a year plus freebies for practice and have never failed to qualify at 95% or better. Does that make me an expert, no, but your comment about LE officers is degrading and wrong. Please, lets quite the bashing of cops, you're supposed to be one of them.

T LEE- When I was a newer officer I did have a pair of Sap Gloves for awhile that my Captain gave me. I would give up my ASP and Baton for those.....Maybe <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> There are quite a few of my officers who didn't know what a sap was, so I made one out of Deer Hide and #9 shot..It was an eye opener for them. Noone wanted to take a free hit with it either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ha sooo. Sap Gloves are GOOD. Them a Denver sap and a Kel-Lite are all the non-lethal's I ever needed.

Dropping your sap gloved hand on a mopes shoulder was akin to God tapping them on the shoulder!

Bird Watcher,

"but with a revolver there ain't no springs to worry about, and they FEEL more reliable"

If it feels good in your hand you're probably going to shoot it better. Confidence in a weapon is important.

Welcome Bushwacker, (incedently that was my handle for years when the CBs first became popular). Sap and gloves have fell by the wayside replaced with flashlights and that extention thingy. Cops carry more weight on a Sam Brown than I can pick up now and someone was correct about the old steel 1911 being for more than shooting. These light weight duty pistols wouldn't compare.
Give us some of your experience. I was just a Conservation Officer, game warden), and deputy sheriff in San Juan county NM years ago. Terry is the expert. -- no

Ya Shreck, for day in, day out easy simplicity over the years its hard to beat a j-frame. I just wish they held more'n five.

I've tried autos, the clincher being my wife persists in leaving them chamber-empty 'cause they're "safer" that way. If TSHTF I sure don't want any last minute fumbling about whether its gonna go "bang" or not.

Birdwatcher

Birdie, with todays modern pistols and the fireing pin block it's OK to carry with one in the chamber just like your J fully loaded. -- no

Hunter1960 and Bushwacker I 100% stand behind what I said. You may be lucky enough where you live to have officers that a) may know something about guns b)actually carry off duty but I can tell you from traveling all over this country that the majority in the majority of the areas do not.

And yes the lower the crime, the lower the LE deaths the less officers carry off duty nor care about how well they shoot in general.

I was with Dallas PD for 11 years. They had to have a policy directive stateing that if you were in the city you had to be armed...and there were people often caught without.

In the last two northeast agencies that I belonged to less than 1% of the officers carried off duty. 99% don't fire a shot between qualifications.

One of my best friends and hunting partners for the last 20+ years is a Captain with a major Massachusetts department. He is a hunter, shooter, Excellent officer, instructor..and never carries off duty. Why I asked... "Because it makes me feel like I'm on duty". He was telling me that they had a detail recently guarding prison (like felony conviction) inmates doing road clean up. The Corrections Officer overseeing the prisoners was unarmed. The female police officer assigned to the detail from the city was armed per departmental policy....she didn't want to be however...why? "Because one of them may hit me over the head and take my gun"! AND MY FRIEND WAS BACKING HER TO NOT HAVE TO CARRY THE GUN!!!!! And the majority of the officers on that department which is just ouside Boston don't carry off-duty.

I 100% agree with you guys that there are parts of the US especially the South and Southeast where officers are much more 'into' firearms. But look at the general populus and you will see why... a much higher percentage of the civilian population are also gun owners. And when crime is higher, when violence is higher more people are likly to carry guns...and since officers come from the general population more of them will be better with firearms.

Bushwacker...it's because I am one of "them" and that I care that I bash the grand majority...I wish I could bash them in their unthinking heads to knock some sense into them. Degrading...you bet. Anyone in LE who doesn't carry offduty or care enough to shoot well enough to save his own life let alone someone elses should be degraded. And if they got into it without knowing what it was all about and don't care to change please bow out and make room for someone who does. And I can tell from your tone you are not one of them.....glad to meet you.

Bob

T Lee...nice gun. You still have the original barrel in there or have you switched out? Will try to post a picture of mine but every time I try to something locks up my computer....Bob

Left gun is a 1952 Commander, BarSto barrel, Ebony grips and MMC sights. Right gun is a 1951 Commander the same features but in hard chrome with ivory grips....Bob