Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 300 wsm and 200 gr bullets

So, you're thinking that the 200 is gonna suffer at ranges past 250? Actually it's gonna begin to take over at the longer ranges.

Running 200's in the 2850-2900 range isn't chump change is one heck of a good load especially for those hunting elk and for those looking to go long. And with people getting speeds in the 2850-2900 range I'd say that the bullets are not taking up too much case capacity.

What bullets and powders did you work with that you found that the bullets took up too much case capacity?

Last thought, I've used the 250 SMK which is a fairly long bullet in my 338 WSM and never found it to take up too much space.

Floggin Part 2 over....grin, but truly I'd like to hear about your experience with the 200's and what lead you to this thought process?

Many thx

Dober

200's past 250 is where the 300 WSM shines as an elk round.

My fav accuracy load

200 AB
N-165 71.6 grains
Win primer
Norma case

2,900 mv 1.5" groups at 300.

I shot a couple of them in Canada on a whitetail hunt a few years back. Once was with the Speer Grand Slam 200 grainers, and the other was the Nosler Accubond. Both were loaded with Reloder 22, and both seemed to start to drop faster than the 180's I shot past 250 yards.



Do you mean .325 WSM?



The energy isn't really what draws questions in my mind, just the velocity. Yeah, the 200's are going to hit more like a truck, and I could be wrong about everything I've said so far, but I just feel you get the best of all things considered with 180's as compared to 200's, that is all.

Oh, one more thing, I absolutely love the state of Montana. It's one of 3 states I'd like to live in somewhere along the way.

You may be bothered by the idea of the 200 grain bullet having its shank hanging down below the case neck. Any guesses about what it does in a 300 Weatherby?

Having never shot a .300 Wby, I wouldn't even want to venture a guess, and I'm spitballing here, but I am guessing that the .300 Wby casing will hold considerably more powder than the .300 WSM casings will. Does that sound about right?

And it's not so much about the shank going below the case neck which bothers me. What concerns me is more about how much the bullet shanks on 200-grain bullets sit below the case neck once they're seated. After my trip to Canada, I started looking for answers why I was getting bullet drops, and when I looked at a bullet next to a seated round, it was almost numbing to me as to how far into the case it was seating. To me, it was just eating up too much of the case capacity.

It hangs down in the Weatherby too, about the same as in the WSM.

Yes, but there is much more case powder capacity with a .300 Weatherby than with the .300 WSM.

I shot .200's all the time in my .300 Win Mags, but since I could load up to 10 more grains of powder in a typical load, it didn't concern me nearly as much.

True. I'm just saying the relative standings of 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, 300 Win. and 300 Wby. don't shift much with changes in bullet weight.

...............After the 300 WSM first came out, there were concerns and as was written, that because of its shortened case, which in turn reduced powder capacity, that the velocity would suffer using the 200 grainers. It was touted by writers that the 300 WSM velocity "really would" suffer (compared to the 300 Win), when using the 200 grain bullets and that this cartridge is better suited for the 180s and lighter!!.............Absolute horse puckey!!!

Well! So they thought anyway! From a 24" barrel using the 200 grainers and as someone stated before, 2850, 2900 and to slightly over 2900 fps, is extremely good for the shortened 300 WSM case with less powder capacity when using the 200 gr bullets. Gees! I can get 2732 fps using a 210 gr VLD and RL22 out of my 16.5" barreled 300 WSM Ruger shorty carbine, and I haven`t even tried RL17 yet with that bullet which will probably get me to 2800 fps or there-abouts.

Since those velocity #s happen to be reality from a 24" barrel, then why would it matter how deep into the casing the bullet`s shank or bottom needs to be even though the powder capacity is reduced???

Per the 49th Edition Lyman Manual; quote............."Ballistics of the 300 WSM averaged 30 to 50 fps below the full sized 300 Winchester Magnum, while consuming around eight to ten percent less powder in our lab tests.".........unquote.

I`d say that`s a pretty good deal. On the range, or when hunting any animal, an average reduction of 30 to 50 fps in any bullet weight (the 200s included), is absolutely meaningless. And in reality, even a 100 to 150 fps difference is meaningless as well.

So this business about the 300 WSM velocity levels suffering when using 200 gr bullets??,,,,That is absolute BULL***T!! Originally, that probably got started by some rag tag writer who was probably more biased towards the 300 Win, who just maybe didn`t care too much for the new shorty competition!!!!

Well we sure agree on the Montana thingy...over the weekend I spent Saturday taking the daughter and grandkids fishing. They had a super day and wore me plumb out..grin If you get this way this summer and we'll hit the river and rip some lips!

Sunday after church the wife and I took a hike for bruins, saw elk,sheep,goats but no billy the bruin. Had an Amazing day!

And nope I meant 338 WSM... (M70,3 weight Schneider cut to 21", I call it Fat Bastad")

Dober

I got it from personal observations based upon where said bullets were hitting at given ranges. The 200-grainers were hitting lower than the 180's that I loaded and took along, and all were loaded to the max recommended powder charge with RL-22. I didn't need a magazine hack or anyone else to make my mind up for me, so take a valium and settle down. As I said several times before, it's just a personal opinion.

What is a .338 WSM? A necked-out .325 casing?

Yeah I can make cases out of the 300 or the 325, but since the 325 came out that's what I've been using as it's just a bit easier.

I'm a tish bit of a 33 cal nut case.

Dober

Mark what kind of speed do you get with 225's, 250's, 275's from the 338WSM? Is it in 338-06 class or a bit more?

I work with a gunsmith who does rebarreling and such, and people are all the time coming up with chamberings which amount to wildcat cartridges. One of the most popular versions around here is the .300 Whisper.

Jimmy-to save time this morn I'll just say that with the 180's to 250's subtract 100 fps from the 338 Win Mag and it's pretty much what you've got.

About the 275's that I can recall I've not ever run them in it. But, I might of tried the 275 Speer..would have to check the records.

I found that the sub 100 fps of the original mag to be true of the 300 and 270 wsm's as well. They're very very close to the original mags but 100 fps is the diff. 4 the most part, how's that for being non commital...grin

Dober

...............I wasn`t trying to make up your mind for you! And, any frustration that I seemed exhibit regarding this subject was not directed towards you in any way.

So, I don`t need any valium, nor do I need to settle down.

so Mark, we NEED a 9.3WSM, wait a minute JB already did this!

bigsqueeze,

I don't know who the "writers" were who "touted" that with 200-grain bullets the .300 WSM "really would" suffer. To my knowledge, I published the first article on handloading the .300 WSM and I'd found that 200's worked just fine, getting around 2900 with (as I recall) H4831 and RL-22.

But one of the Winchester ammo representatives at the time the .300 WSM was introduced did say at one of the writer get-togethers that 200's wouldn't work. Now, he wasn't one of the techies, but a sales/marketing guy, and never said how he knew this.

My guess was that he was just parroting the same old BS some old-time gun writers pushed for years, and really didn't know anything. Maybe the "writers" you read just repeated what he said, but I didn't, since I actually tested a bunch of handloads in the .300 WSM before writing about it.

I wouldn't make so much of this except that over the years I have grown quite weary of claims that "writers" say this, or "writers" say that. In fact at one gun show where my wife and I had a table, one guy came up and looked at the books. When he deduced that I was gun writer, he immediately went into a rant about "you writers saying the .270 isn't enough for African game."

At first I gently tried to tell him that I had never written anything like that in my life, but when he just kept ranting I finally had to get in his face and tell him to fold it five ways and put it where the moon don't shine. He was somewhat startled, perhaps because up to that point he'd been so self-entertained, but did shut up and move on.

I know a lot of gun writers and often they don't agree on anything, anymore than 100 Internet posters agree on anything.

I`m with ya all the way on this one! I cannot recall the names of specific writers, but have read these deductions when it comes to the 300 WSM and 200 gr bullets; basically saying that the 200 grainers are too long thereby decreasing the powder capacity, which in turn diminishes performance.

Just now thought of something!!!

Well! Well!! Looky at what I read in my Edition V Sierra Manual under the 300 WSM summary!!

About half way down I read.....Quote....."Given the similarity in velocities, most comments concerning the 300 Win Mag apply equally to the 300 WSM. One important difference is that because of OAL limitations set by the action length, THE 300 WSM IS PROBABLY BEST WITH MEDIUM TO LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT BULLETS OF 150 TO 180 GRAINS. THE HEAVIER 200 AND 220 GRAIN BULLETS WILL REQUIRE A SEATING DEPTH THAT PLACES TOO MUCH OF THE PROJECTILE INSIDE THE CASE. THIS REDUCES AVAILABLE CAPACITY THAT IN TURN, REDUCES PERFORMANCE LEVELS."....Unquote

Any cartridge, regardless of case capacity or lack of it, WILL ALWAYS fire a lighter bullet faster??? I also see four loads in my Sierra manual showing 24" tubed 300 WSM 200 gr velocities at 2850 and one load at 2900 fps. By comparison, a "26" tubed" 300 Win Mag, shows one loading at 3000 fps and five loads at 2900 fps.

I don`t see or understand how the 300 WSM can be labeled as,,,,,"probably at its best with 150 to 180 gr bullets because of its reduced casing capacity." Sure! the lighter 150s and 180s will move faster. But that also applies to the 300 Win and all other cartridges....

Then wouldn`t the 300 Win with its full sized casing, given the same comparison,,ALSO,,be better with 150 and 180 gr bullets as opposed to the 200 grainers?

Any 30 cal round, shorty mag or otherwise, that uses a longer and heavier bullet, will certainly have reduced powder capacity and in turn, reduces velocities.

So what began several years ago with opinions in labeling the 300 WSM as an inferior performer using 200 grain bullets, has apparently carried over into at least one reloading manual`s summary,,,namely Sierra!