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if it's not in your familiar old man camp way of doing things
I suppose we may have a general gap between the young and old. I grew up shooting iron sights and was in my twenties before I fired a shot through a scope, so am more comfortable with less magnification than some of the young guys. I can't handle the shakiness of 14x, and before hunting scope adjustments were refined to what they have become today, had enough sight in experience to know not to trust adjustment notches. We could adjust a scope 4 notches and it would move an inch on the paper, 4 more notches and it would move a different amount and maybe even shoot at a different elevation. So, this is why the old man camp guys don't want to change the adjustments, we havn't learned to trust them yet and being more comfortable with hold over than adjusting. But I do find the B&C reticles very quick, dependable, and useful.
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It's good to know that so many people out west can INSTANTLY judge wind well enough to mentally calculate (factoring in angle of the wind to line of fire) whether they need hold 6" or 36" inches of windage (or something else) into the wind on a quick shot at 378 yds (or whatever distance). I'm exaggerating a little, but the difference in windage due to misjudging the wind by merely 5 mph is in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 inches at 400 yards for a .270 Win. with typical 130 gr bullets. That's more than enough to miss the vitals of a deer or pronghorn, even with a sub-moa gun and a sub-moa shooter with a solid shooting position, and one hopes that is a clean miss and not a gut-shot animal.
Do you take a abacus with you when you hunt to calculate each shot? I had a long conversation with a long-range shooter friend recently regarding wind. He shoots 10k to 12k shots a year. Practices with the local police sniper unit, shoots in regular competitions, instructs, etc. Regular practice shots up to 1,000 yards. His advice regarding wind, forget about it until you're past 400 yards or are having strong winds. I'll stick to his advice, thank you.
Last edited by brymoore; 05/20/10.
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Long range shooter or long range hunter?
Very big difference IMO.
With just a 10 mph wind a .308 with a .420BC starting out at 3000 is pushed 8" at 325 yards.
That's the difference between a solid heart/lung hit and less desirable paunch hit on a WT.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Campfire Tracker
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It's good to know that so many people out west can INSTANTLY judge wind well enough to mentally calculate (factoring in angle of the wind to line of fire) whether they need hold 6" or 36" inches of windage (or something else) into the wind on a quick shot at 378 yds (or whatever distance). I'm exaggerating a little, but the difference in windage due to misjudging the wind by merely 5 mph is in the neighborhood of 5 or 6 inches at 400 yards for a .270 Win. with typical 130 gr bullets. That's more than enough to miss the vitals of a deer or pronghorn, even with a sub-moa gun and a sub-moa shooter with a solid shooting position, and one hopes that is a clean miss and not a gut-shot animal.
I had a long conversation with a long-range shooter friend recently regarding wind. He shoots 10k to 12k shots a year. Practices with the local police sniper unit, shoots in regular competitions, instructs, etc. Regular practice shots up to 1,000 yards. His advice regarding wind, forget about it until you're past 400 yards or are having strong winds. I'll take my advice from people doing it versus someone theorizing. No theorizing on my part. All you have to do is shoot under controlled circumstances (e.g., at a range) when there is any appreciable wind to see the effects of wind. Try this the next time you are at the range when there is any appreciable crosswind (e.g., a MEASURED 10 mph or more) - don't correct for wind and see where your shots at 400 yards land - I'm guessing you'll be surprised based on your comments. "Strong" winds is not very descriptive, but based on what happens at 400 yards, once you get close to 10 mph, you had better correct for wind. If where you hunt doesn't have much wind, then don't worry about it, but in the places in the plains states I've hunted, there is often wind, and it is often more than 10 mph, which based on your friend's advice would be "strong" wind.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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How do you folks sight-in your deer rifles for MPBR? I have a 270W shooting a 130gr pill...My shots won't be longer than 275 yds...my comfort zone  Does a 2.5" zero @ 100 yds sound correct??? I'm only now trying to understand MPBR vs. doing calculations in the field for drop...someone told me just to sight-in like this and I'd be GOOD to GO...At 300yds I was told just hold up a tad higher from center of vitals... What ya all think??? Take me to school somebody I'd appreciate it The question of the OP seems pretty direct to me...so simple a child could understand it....he asked simply whether being zeroed 2.5" high at 100 yards would get him to 275 yards, the farthest he intended to shoot. I don't recall that he asked whether he was doing it "right",or was suffering some level of diminished acumen because he wanted to do it this way,as opposed to how some others do it.... Late Bloomer the answer to your question is "yes", a 270 with 130 gr bullet zeroed 2.5 or so inches high will get you to 275 yards very easily,and you will be slighly low at 300 yards. Shoot to confirm. You will kill a pile of game zeroed in this manner if you take the time to learn your rifle,and its' trajectory,and work on your field skills.And you will do it at all sorts of distances out to your self-imposed limits,whatever that may be. I'm continually astonished by how some otherwise intelligent people here feel this compulsion to insult people who do not do things their way,rather than simply pass on the good information and experience they have obtained along the way. He asked what do you all think? Pretty open ended question, of course Bob makes smart ass comments and in particular makes guesses about things. I've seen many times with you Bob if it's not in your familiar old man camp way of doing things you do the typical left hand attacks. Seems things like this give you a little sense of superiority. I'm BOB I don't need nothing but a 4x scope and KNOW the best way to sight in. Anything other than the way BOB does it shows a lack of experience. Just cuzz you generally post "nice: don't make you any less of a pompous prick. Scott don't forget "obtuse"....  I am not going to engage you in a public debate on the matter. We have done that enough...apparently you don't like the way I do things and that's fine.....I've said many times ".....this is how I do it....do it your way...." It seems to me that when someone does not do things "your way",they are in for a round of criticism and name calling and personal attacks. This apparently makes you feel pretty good about yourself,and given your general demeanor on here I am not surprised.People who are confronted by an alternative point of view they cannot handle frequently resort to child-like behavior for self-gratification; it gives them confidence they otherwise lack..I mean this is pretty apparent through a lot of posts. So, apparently we have two standards on here....when the OP asks about a 4X(among other scopes),and I relate what I have done with them,and declare it "easy"(meaning BTW,I feel it is "enough" for the appointed task) I'm a (what?)....oh yeah..."pompous prick"..... But when Scott says...."spinning turrets is easy",or ..."killing shidt is easy".....or something else...then it is to be taken as gospel.I get the program..... Where I come from we call that a "double standard"....At least I go to great lengths to avoid belittling people...you, OTOH seemed to have developed this into an "art form".. Do me and yourself a favor,Scott...please put me on ignore because I intend to do the same to you.You really are not the type of person I care to have any involvement with....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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You said it Bob!
If you do things like Scott does them then you're right, if you don't then you get called childish names by him.
I've seen enough of his posts to know that they are very light on substance and very big on pomposity.
Please put me on ignore as well Scott.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Do you take a abacus with you when you hunt to calculate each shot?
No abacus needed. Just need to know the range (laser rangefinder), the windspeed courtesy of a windmeter and wind angle to line of fire, and a chart with windage for 10 mph crosswind at 25 yard intervals. I can do the mental math once I know the distance and crosswind component of the wind. If shooting out to 200 yards or a little further, the wind doesn't matter much, but any amount of range time with any appreciable wind shows what wind does once you get out to 300 yards or further. On second thought, Mr. Moore, just ignore everything I've written about accounting for wind because obviously you don't need to know anything about wind for the shooting you do.
Last edited by Ramblin_Razorback; 05/20/10. Reason: added last paragraph
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Do you take a abacus with you when you hunt to calculate each shot?
On second thought, Mr. Moore, just ignore everything I've written about accounting for wind because obviously you don't need to know anything about wind for the shooting you do. It's a joke, don't take it personal. Abacus is funny. Use what works for you. I'm killing 2 to 4 animals a year with one shot, so trying to change my mind on MPBR will be tough.
Last edited by brymoore; 05/20/10.
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Campfire Tracker
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I think using MPBR is great out to a distance where the shooter has practiced sufficiently, so I'm not trying to change your mind. Using MPBR is one of a number of legitimate solutions, and it works particularly well for those who shoot a cartridge that is very flat shooting like a .270 Win.
You obviously aren't shooting animals much past 250 yards with any appreciable (10+ mph) crosswind if you aren't taking wind into account, so if that approach is working for you, then continue on until you run into a situation that changes your mind.
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My last 5 kill were from 250, 225, 400, 285 and 325. No wind problems. I do shoot my gun a lot during the summer at milk jugs from 100 to 400 yards. I've never had wind issues.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Take me to school somebody I'd appreciate it Dober does dots. dave
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg) Only accurate rifles are interesting.
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Campfire Ranger
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FWIW, I have dots on a 6x42 on my 338 Ultra Mag, as well as a turret. I'm zero'd at 225. First dot goes 325, second dot will get me to 425. It's the only scope I have dots.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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How do you folks sight-in your deer rifles for MPBR? I have a 270W shooting a 130gr pill...My shots won't be longer than 275 yds...my comfort zone Does a 2.5" zero @ 100 yds sound correct??? I'm only now trying to understand MPBR vs. doing calculations in the field for drop...someone told me just to sight-in like this and I'd be GOOD to GO...At 300yds I was told just hold up a tad higher from center of vitals... What ya all think??? Take me to school somebody I'd appreciate it The question of the OP seems pretty direct to me...so simple a child could understand it....he asked simply whether being zeroed 2.5" high at 100 yards would get him to 275 yards, the farthest he intended to shoot. I don't recall that he asked whether he was doing it "right",or was suffering some level of diminished acumen because he wanted to do it this way,as opposed to how some others do it.... Late Bloomer the answer to your question is "yes", a 270 with 130 gr bullet zeroed 2.5 or so inches high will get you to 275 yards very easily,and you will be slighly low at 300 yards. Shoot to confirm. You will kill a pile of game zeroed in this manner if you take the time to learn your rifle,and its' trajectory,and work on your field skills.And you will do it at all sorts of distances out to your self-imposed limits,whatever that may be. I'm continually astonished by how some otherwise intelligent people here feel this compulsion to insult people who do not do things their way,rather than simply pass on the good information and experience they have obtained along the way. He asked what do you all think? Pretty open ended question, of course Bob makes smart ass comments and in particular makes guesses about things. I've seen many times with you Bob if it's not in your familiar old man camp way of doing things you do the typical left hand attacks. Seems things like this give you a little sense of superiority. I'm BOB I don't need nothing but a 4x scope and KNOW the best way to sight in. Anything other than the way BOB does it shows a lack of experience. Just cuzz you generally post "nice: don't make you any less of a pompous prick. Scott don't forget "obtuse".... I am not going to engage you in a public debate on the matter. We have done that enough...apparently you don't like the way I do things and that's fine.....I've said many times ".....this is how I do it....do it your way...." It seems to me that when someone does not do things "your way",they are in for a round of criticism and name calling and personal attacks. This apparently makes you feel pretty good about yourself,and given your general demeanor on here I am not surprised.People who are confronted by an alternative point of view they cannot handle frequently resort to child-like behavior for self-gratification; it gives them confidence they otherwise lack..I mean this is pretty apparent through a lot of posts. So, apparently we have two standards on here....when the OP asks about a 4X(among other scopes),and I relate what I have done with them,and declare it "easy"(meaning BTW,I feel it is "enough" for the appointed task) I'm a (what?)....oh yeah..."pompous prick"..... But when Scott says...."spinning turrets is easy",or ..."killing shidt is easy".....or something else...then it is to be taken as gospel.I get the program..... Where I come from we call that a "double standard"....At least I go to great lengths to avoid belittling people...you, OTOH seemed to have developed this into an "art form".. Do me and yourself a favor,Scott...please put me on ignore because I intend to do the same to you.You really are not the type of person I care to have any involvement with.... Steelhead cannot handle a debate. Never has been able, never will. Whatever merit his point of view may have on a given subject is lost in a barrage of personal insults and attacks. The dude's best years were Jr. High and he's still livin' that dream. With that said, if I'm running a turret I do what I believe he does- which is, a nominal 100-yd zero, which I can easily click up to a 200, or MPBR for that matter, zero if field circumstances dictate that. It really is the most flexible and (once you get over any phobia of changing your zero around) the most "intelligent" way to do things. You gain everything, lose nothing. But it does require a scope with good repeatability and RTZ characteristics and some range time verifying that. I fully understand, as a former Leupold junkie, how once you get the damn thing zeroed you just want to NOT TOUCH them knobs anymore. I get that. But if a guy is willing to turn em, and has a mechanically sound scope, zeroing at 100 and dialing to other zero's really makes a whole bunch of sense. As to running an actual MPBR zero as a person's "one true zero"... eh, not for me. I don't want to be zeroed that high in some circumstances. But I can see it's merits in some terrain, for certain, and it's utter simplicity for a high percentage of game shots cannot be denied.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Steelhead cannot handle a debate. Never has been able, never will. Whatever merit his point of view may have on a given subject is lost in a barrage of personal insults and attacks. The dude's best years were Jr. High and he's still livin' that dream.
With that said.......
Typical liberal-esque smoke and mirrors blame shifting..... There's no personal attack of your own, there, in that, Obama Boy? Why are you posting on this thread anyway, you've led us to believe that you hunt in a deep dark rain forest where shots are quick and fast, at mere feet, and you need a hot chamber because every spit second counts....... MPBR, BC's, best caliber, and best bullet, best this, best that,,. ect...shouldn't even mean dick to you. Hell JeffObama, you don't even need a rifle up there in your Pacific coast jungle, just get a decent aluminum baseball bat and hide behind a tree. But don't get a blue one...................
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Whatever merit his point of view may have on a given subject is lost in a barrage of personal insults and attacks. The dude's best years were Jr. High and he's still livin' that dream. Pot head, meet kettle..
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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 Y'all have succeeded in taking me out of my happy place enough to where, yeah, I'll take a shot at SH or his ilk when it's there. Why the [bleep] not?!. You guys sure don't hold back. But if the other guy is even reasonably polite, I'll debate a topic calmly, politely, and to the best of my ability, effectively. And BobinNH will back me up on that. He and I have had several "conversations" where we didn't agree but you know what, Rancho? Reasonable people can disagree in a reasonable manner. Then there's YOU. The master of the snide, passive-aggresive little poke, usually contributing nothing of substance, and intended to annoy. You must be so proud.......
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 32,312 |
Steelhead cannot handle a debate. Never has been able, never will. Whatever merit his point of view may have on a given subject is lost in a barrage of personal insults and attacks. The dude's best years were Jr. High and he's still livin' that dream.
With that said.......
Typical liberal-esque smoke and mirrors blame shifting..... There's no personal attack of your own, there, in that, Obama Boy? Why are you posting on this thread anyway, you've led us to believe that you hunt in a deep dark rain forest where shots are quick and fast, at mere feet, and you need a hot chamber because every spit second counts....... MPBR, BC's, best caliber, and best bullet, best this, best that,,. ect...shouldn't even mean dick to you. Hell JeffObama, you don't even need a rifle up there in your Pacific coast jungle, just get a decent aluminum baseball bat and hide behind a tree. But don't get a blue one................... Bob is a friend, Steelhead is an azzhole who is poison to a forum and so are you, and I don't just hunt the deep dank chit, though I most certainly do that and not a little. Wanna see some eastern Oregon pics? It can be quite open. Terrain suited for a MPRZ with a .270 if a guy was so inclined.......
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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.... and why are YOU posting on this thread? Or my thread in the Classifieds?
Just to be a dick and stir chit up.
The CENTER will hold.
Reality, Patriotism,Trump: you can only pick two
FÜCK PUTIN!
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Campfire Outfitter
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Probably.
But you so rightly deserve it..........
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Should add too, that Scott's a friend....and you are a whiny ass Obama Voter.
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