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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 15,864 |
Gotta toughen up a little....
Never explain yourself. Your friends don't need it and your enemies won't believe it.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams
Turdlike, by default.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965 |
Mule Dear,
In your experience does the 30/06 with a 180 grain bullet have any field game killing advantage over a 270 using a 150 grain bullet? Using the same type bullet at standard factory velocities out of the same length barrels.
idahoguy101
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965 |
Mule Deer, not Mule Dear
My question is would a 200 grain 30 calibre bullet, at say 2700 fps, be needed to outperform someone shooting a 150 grain 270 Winchester factory standard load?
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218 |
I have a buddy who used to be a .280 fan. In fact he outfitted both his wife and 2 daughters with a .280 as well. They headed for eastern Montana one fall to hunt antelope and he took along a couple boxes of ammo, which he thought would be plenty.
They ran out of ammo before all the antelope tags were filled and went to the nearest town (can't remember where, but it was tiny) and couldn't find any .280 ammo.
Before the next hunting season he sold traded all the .280's in on .270's and has been happy ever since. Besides, as he told me, "I never could see the difference between the .270 and .280 on game anyway!" Bullhockey, everyone knows that.....nevermind (grin).
Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38 |
idahoguy,
In theory the .30-06 should do better with 180's than the .270's 150's, but I have never been able to see a real difference on game.
The 200 might get us into that "big bear" territory, but not many of us hunt really big bears with a .270 anyway. On non-dangerous game a 150-grain .270 bullet works pretty darn well, at least in my experience.
In fact a really deep-penetrating 130-grain .270 bullet, such as the Barnes TSX or Nosler E-Tip, works very well on pretty big game. I have seen the 130 TSX used on 1000-pound animals and it worked very well indeed.
As alluded to in an earlier post, for 99% of hunting the .270/.30-06 question was pretty well put to rest by the invention of the Nosler Partition over 60 years ago. Some of today's bullets make the question even less debatable. A 150 TSX or E-Tip in the .30-06 is plenty for just about any non-dangerous big game, whether elk or similar-sized African plains game (or at least that's been my experience). A 130 in the .270 does very similar things.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 4,218 |
I think you could spend a lifetime using both in the field and not see any real difference....but there would not be any better way to spend a lifetime in my opinion.
Karma and Trouble have busses, and there's always an empty seat.
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
I can say that I've never tromped around brown bear country with a 270, I have with a 30/06 loaded with 220gr Partitions.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38 |
Not a bad choice at all.
I have hunted grizzly country in Montana with a .270 in my hands (or a .280, which is indeed the same thing) and haven't felt particularly nervous. 180 Woodleighs in the .270 or .280 would be an option, but I have generally had 150 Partitions in the rifle.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
Not a bad choice at all.
I have hunted grizzly country in Montana with a .270 in my hands (or a .280, which is indeed the same thing) and haven't felt particularly nervous. 180 Woodleighs in the .270 or .280 would be an option, but I have generally had 150 Partitions in the rifle. While maybe not ideal as big bear stopper I certainly wouldn't throw the 270 down and run
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
I'm with Steelie on this one..220 NPTs in a good '06 and I would feel as good as I would with a .375...especially after reading some of Phil Shoemakers stuff on the '06 and big bears...
Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 12,530 |
I agree but the 270 would better than a rock or hoping the bear would slipping on the brown stuff coming out of your pants while running away. Of course you may take a step back no matter the rifle in your hands and slip on same brown stuff
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38 |
Yeah, Phil's a believer in that combo.
Before Nosler made a 220 Partition, Phil used to carry a .30-06 with 200 Partitions for back-up on brown bears. Of course, that was before he got his famous .458--and one "interesting" experience with the '06 and a wounded bear helped him make the decision to buy a .458. But he obviously survived....
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 96,121 Likes: 1 |
Never seen a grizzly in Montana but I've seen salmon eating bears in Alaska and they tend to be on the large size! Fact is damn near anything shy of a rocket launcher still don't warm my heart when pushing bush.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,671 Likes: 6
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,671 Likes: 6 |
You make a living splitting ballistic atoms in print (like the 270 vs 30-06)... I enjoy your writing, despite the very narrow topic. Thing is, the oft repeated criticism of you is that you talk down to readers and this thread is a perfect example. Brad- With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. MMV, but I can't think of another writer that's as pragmatic and lends as much common sense to his prose than JB.
WWP53D
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
Never seen a grizzly in Montana but I've seen salmon eating bears in Alaska and they tend to be on the large size! Fact is damn near anything shy of a rocket launcher still don't warm my heart when pushing bush. You have a point there...buttt... On my first trip to Alaska ( fishing) I did what any good tourist would do, and strapped on my .44.. We ran into one of your bears...very gratefully he was completely cool...but my first thought on seeing him up close is......" this is gonna really suck..." Ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38 |
Steelhead,
Yes, brown bears do average bigger, and I have seen some VERY big ones, both on Kodiak and the Peninsula.
But we have a few bigger bears in Montana than a lot of people tend to believe. A few years ago some biologist caught a big boar that bottomed out a portable 800-pound scale--and as I recall that was in the spring. And a couple years ago another 800+ pound bear was hit and killed on a highway less than 100 miles from here.
The really big ones, however, are pretty shy. You're far more likely to run into a younger male--or a female with cubs.
The closest run-in I've had down here was in the Bob Marshall. I came around a corner in a trail one spring while hunting black bears, and found a 400-500 pound bear maybe 20 yards away, eating grass. I had a rifle in my hands (a 7mm Rem. Magnum) but he went the other way.
The only time I've been charged, though, was on Kodiak--twice on the same day by different females with cubs. Luckily they were bluffing, but it still got the blood flowing.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,313 Likes: 4
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,313 Likes: 4 |
You make a living splitting ballistic atoms in print (like the 270 vs 30-06)... I enjoy your writing, despite the very narrow topic. Thing is, the oft repeated criticism of you is that you talk down to readers and this thread is a perfect example. Brad- With all due respect, I couldn't disagree more. MMV, but I can't think of another writer that's as pragmatic and lends as much common sense to his prose than JB. He disparages the originator of this thread, repeatedly, and gets a clean slate. Bullchit. It's his MO... he thinks he's bringing down tablets from God but he's writing the same ballistic gack he's putting the fellow down for from Idaho. I'm calling Bullchit. Barsness never asks questions as he's apparently past learning. The only thing suspect, to borrow his sig line, is something other than his own opinion... I know a little man when I see one.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,569 Likes: 23
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 23,569 Likes: 23 |
Looks like I need to make a beer run for this one!
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 78,307 Likes: 2 |
Don't forget popcorn! ingwe
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,965 |
If you want to hunt bears with Phil Shoemaker, he says a 30/06 is good to go. I don't know how he feels about .270 performance on bruins but Phil is as informed about Alaskan wildlife as anyone and he endorses using a 30/06.
Besides, having one rifle is boring.
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