Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire More M4 5.56 problems in Afghanistan

And, you know this exactly how?

Of course, we can't use massed fire at all, huh? Damned M240s and M249s can't do that, right? MkIXs must suck at it... M2s fail, I guess.

Try guessing on something where you actually have a semblence of a clue. Hint: this ain't one of those topics.

Well, that is, unless you ask the leftists, the .gov apologists, the lie-berals, and the MSM.

I don't [bleep] care if we fight on the ground with blue baseball bats instead of red ones.

The whole thing went out the window when we started being nice.

Burn it down...........

No disagreement there, amigo.

The military's job is to go to distant lands, see unique things - and break them, meet interesting people - and kill them, and then come the [bleep] home.

Go there, break stuff, kill damned near anyone/everyone, and GTFO.

Make your "visit" so memorable that no one else ever wants to contemplate "enjoying" the same.

When we lost that, we lost.

Man, that was a GOOD reply VA.

Drinking and typing are a bad combo....

Consider the source.....

Couldn't agree more....on both counts.

I will withhold comment on the whole M4 / 5.56 issue, but I will note that I see flights of A-10's almost daily here in the Ouachita's.

Seems to me they could be put to much better use in Afghanistan than here. Instant close air support would tend to make the whole infantry weapon issue a moot point, would it not?

Close-air ain't a bad thing. But, boots on the ground, securing real estate = victory.

When you keep patroling the same circuit, trying ti find new bad guys who've replaced the ones you killed yesterday or last week, and allow them to retain control of their turf, you don't win.

Never, ever refight for the same ground. ALWAYS take the fight to the enemy, take their positions, and make them die for their country/beliefs.

Those ROEs are as old as warfare, and never waver from true.

Well, there's ragheads... and then there's ragheads...

Rifles are part of the traditional Afghan culture in that open country. Winston Churchill wrote of 'em....

"To the ferocity of the Zulu are added the craft of the Redskin and the marksmanship of the Boer,"

I believe more'n a few of our casualties there have been from aimed rifle fire .

Birdwatcher

I agree 100%. But I think boots on the ground works better after you blow their fortifications / hiding places to schit with air power.

I believe this was pretty much what was happening at the beginning of the Afghan operation, Spec Ops infiltrating enemy territory and ID'ing targets, air power taking out targets, and then infantry coming in and mopping up. It was working then, we should still be doing it now, "collateral damage" be damned.

As a former grunt, I'm all for "softening" schit up. Do so, at will.

And, you're right. That was what was occurring, or at least that was the implication.

Of course, that's prior to having the Manchurian Muslim and his merry band of defeatists in power.

The media requires us to not only win our wars, but to do so with style points. Simple victory is insufficient. Not only must we win, but those we defeat must love us and acknowledge our victory as the best possible outcome of the war.

We give candy with one hand and cluster bombs with the other. Like our policy, our wars are schizophrenic.

The object of war is to break the will of the enemy to resist, i.e., to subjugate the enemy. Our desire for them to love us as well is simple hubris and delusion.

My personal philosophy of war aside, it would seem reasonable in this day and age to create a rugged, reliable, accurate rifle with modest recoil and rapid fire capability able to inflict decisive damage to the enemy at a reasonable cost per unit.

Of course, in no way does the AR15/M16/M4 platform fit this description. We've only known that for 45 years. Sigh.

Yeah, the tribal cultures of Iran and Afghanistan are legendary marksmen. And in truth, we're probably lucky they switched from their Enfields and Persian Mausers to the AK. If they had those, they would seriously outrange us.

Drinking??? Drinking alone will cause that much consistently annoying drivel year after year??? I've been thinking some kind of hybrid psychiatric disorder...

Do they make breathalyzers for keyboards

Beyond ANY shadow of doubt, this is Pontification, in it's purest sense.

Just EXACTLY how much time do you have on the M4 system there, Pit-Bull Man ?

GTC

It's the 'massed Fire thing that FLOORED me.

General Ferdinand Foch has spoken ?

GTC

Soldiers of any flavor hate and fear that which kills and maims them the most. US Troopers hate and fear IEDs,Taliban and El Qaida hate and fear airpower. WWll Germans greatly hated and feared our artillery. We greatly hated and feared the MG 42 MGs. If we want to win and instill real fear, our Soldiers are going to have to be doing the real killing. Massed fire never seemed to make much difference. WTF good is 10,000 misses per minute?? Give the guys a GOOD powerful,accurate rifle and throw the selective fire crap away. Leave that to the MGs. TEACH EVERY SWINGIN' DICK TO SHOOT!!! WWl the standard was evrybody had to hit a man size target at 500 yds and a head shot at 250. RELIABLY! Change the ROE and make the Troopers killers..AGAIN!!