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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Camp is where you make it.
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I'd say as soon as this thread dies, you should be good to go. He should be good by now and it's still going!!!. If you are that worried about moisture, you can put a piece of tyvek down or even plastic. to keep it off the safe. The bolts are NOT an issue. They are ready to drill 3 days later. As far as setting anchor bolts, There are better ways now. Most projects are engineered both ways. In my slab, I used coupler nuts with tape over them. I can finish right over the top. This speeds up the finishing and makes a much cleaner job. One the concrete is dried enough (12 hours or so) I simply flaked the skim of concrete off the taped areas and screwed a stud into the coupler nut. Now I have all the advantages of an anchor bolt with the convenience of nothing in the way of finishing. This really wouldn't work for a gun safe but for walls it works fine. Anchor bolts on a gun vault don't have to be torqued down, just snugged up so it doesn't walk off- it's not being vibrated or bumped around...
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Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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2 weeks is a really, really safe bet. He's covering his ass.
When we pour concret, it's 7 days before we can drive on a standard mix. Exactly. Maybe 10 days depending. I would also drill into the slab, like Dennis said 3-4 days. Hopefully the rebar was placed so you don't hit it with the bit. I would be more worried about moisture under the safe than any strength issues. A slab on a slab has great lateral strength, it also bleeds out more on top because up is the only way for the moisture to go. Of course you might as well wait the full 14 days just in case some freak thing happens later on with the slab.
Last edited by SamOlson; 05/26/10.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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In 28 days you have ultimate strength. You have about 80% in 7 - 14 days depending on the mix. in 28 days you have the specified strength, but NOT the ultimate strength. It cures for a LONG time. You can generally drive on it after 7 days. I just poured a 9 yd slab and missed a couple of anchor bolts. I drilled and put Red-heads in after 4 days and used an impact to tighten them. They held fine. As for moisture releasing, once it is gray, you have most of the moisture out. If it is still green, it is still wet. Depends on your climate and how you treated it after the pour. If you have kept water on it for days, it will dry slower but cure much harder and stronger. If it is warm and sunny, it will dry in 5-6 days. My main slab is 18" thick (to support my lathe) and the approach is only 4" thick. The 4" stuff was dry in 4 days, the 18" stuff took all of 7 days. We often started framing on a slab the 2nd day after it was poured. We tightened the anchor bolts with a rachet and I have never seen one pull out- just don't get carried away. You are partially correct. We specify 3250 PSI in 28 days for Class B concrete and usually end up with 4000 PSI. We consider that ultimate strength. Yes it does continue to develop strength as time goes by until all the cement/water has hydrated.
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Campfire Kahuna
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For crying out loud we run traffic on 3250 PSI concrete. We build bridge decks with 3750 PSI concrete.
Matt you could form it yourself, get some HD-50 in 50 lb bags and make it yourself. You can mix HD-50, place it and be driving on it in a few hours. That's interesting on 3250 psi concrete. We can't even pour a curb or fill a pan stair here with less than 4k. The only bridge we did with a concrete deck required a lot more. We failed two test pours in a row before the concrete people got it right, but it was a swing bridge - maybe that's why. In Wyoming wind? Not a chance.
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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For crying out loud we run traffic on 3250 PSI concrete. We build bridge decks with 3750 PSI concrete.
Matt you could form it yourself, get some HD-50 in 50 lb bags and make it yourself. You can mix HD-50, place it and be driving on it in a few hours. That's interesting on 3250 psi concrete. We can't even pour a curb or fill a pan stair here with less than 4k. The only bridge we did with a concrete deck required a lot more. We failed two test pours in a row before the concrete people got it right, but it was a swing bridge - maybe that's why. In Wyoming wind? Not a chance. Not that kind of swing bridge. Like a drawbridge that pivots side to side on a big bearing about 1/3 of the way across instead of up and down, balanced with a big weight box. It's made to go across bayous that only ocasionally need opening to let the shrimp fleet up in the bayou during hurricanes etc... Damn thing had a girders about 12' tall. Pretty much like any other bridge just built heavy enough to support itself on that one big bearing instead of both ends. Looks like this. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.texasfreeway.com/statewide/Orange/TX87-BridgeCity-SwingBridge/TX87-BridgeCity-SwingBridge-Pivot.jpg)
Last edited by NathanL; 05/26/10.
Otto is my co-pilot.
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it''s not green anymore. kind of an ashy-gray. is that good or bad ? (grin)
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Tear it out and start over.....
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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Campfire Tracker
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As most of these guys have said (tzone, Sam, etc.) you'd be perfectly fine going ahead to do it at 7 days, though if your contractor says 2 weeks, you might as well just wait the two weeks in case some freak accident occurs. That way if it would be something your contractor did, he can't turn it around on you for not waiting the two weeks he specified.
Sam does bring up a great point about the rebar, and hopefully you won't run into any issues there while drilling.
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shouldn't - the general anchor location was marked and avoided when setting the rebar.
thanks to all.
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shouldn't - the general anchor location was marked and avoided when setting the rebar.
thanks to all. Famous last works in construction - "Does this mean to avoid this or does it mean to stick it here?".
Otto is my co-pilot.
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I recieved approvals on several mix-designs, for three different wind farms on Tuesday of this week. We poured several "mud mats" yesterday, and the bases for the towers will start on Saturday. I'm betting there will be towers standing on that concrete in two weeks.
I hope that puts things in perspective.>grin<
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Campfire Ranger
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Did you hear about the unfortunate collision between a prison bus and a concrete truck?
Motorists were cautioned to be on the lookout for hardened criminals...LOL
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Campfire Regular
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Did you hear about the unfortunate collision between a prison bus and a concrete truck?
Motorists were cautioned to be on the lookout for hardened criminals...LOL GEEZ!
My biggest fear is when I die my wife sells all my gear for what I said I paid for it.
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There is a lot of good general info here. You shouldn't have to worry about concrete strength for a slab on slab issue, especially considering the weight of the safe you'll be putting on the slab.
The only comment I'd make at this point is that in lieu of a typical red-head type anchor bolt, look into the Titen HD Concrete screw made by Simpson. Typical expansion bolts have to remain in the concrete, even after you are done with them (if, for exapmle you moved the safe elsewhere). You have to just cut the top of the anchor bolt off flush with the slab. The Titen HD is a self-tapping screw that can be removed easily, and re-used if necessary. I'm a Structural Engineer who designs concrete structures for a living, and the Titen is a fantastic product.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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There is a lot of good general info here. You shouldn't have to worry about concrete strength for a slab on slab issue, especially considering the weight of the safe you'll be putting on the slab.
The only comment I'd make at this point is that in lieu of a typical red-head type anchor bolt, look into the Titen HD Concrete screw made by Simpson. Typical expansion bolts have to remain in the concrete, even after you are done with them (if, for exapmle you moved the safe elsewhere). You have to just cut the top of the anchor bolt off flush with the slab. The Titen HD is a self-tapping screw that can be removed easily, and re-used if necessary. I'm a Structural Engineer who designs concrete structures for a living, and the Titen is a fantastic product. Never....never ....admit that around here....you just painted a target on your back for Les! 
Liberalism is a mental disorder that leads to social disease.
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There is a lot of good general info here. You shouldn't have to worry about concrete strength for a slab on slab issue, especially considering the weight of the safe you'll be putting on the slab.
The only comment I'd make at this point is that in lieu of a typical red-head type anchor bolt, look into the Titen HD Concrete screw made by Simpson. Typical expansion bolts have to remain in the concrete, even after you are done with them (if, for exapmle you moved the safe elsewhere). You have to just cut the top of the anchor bolt off flush with the slab. The Titen HD is a self-tapping screw that can be removed easily, and re-used if necessary. I'm a Structural Engineer who designs concrete structures for a living, and the Titen is a fantastic product. We did a McDonalds where those were specified. I agree, they are good, just very pricey. When I say "Red heads" I am using it as a generic term for anchor bolt that is install AFTER concrete has cured. I don't even know what brand I have.
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I'm a Structural Engineer who designs concrete structures for a living I got no beef with that, but when I say my mixs will exceed specifications - and am willing to prove it using ACI standards - please don't tell me I don't have enough cementicious materials. > sigh< Test cylinders, I've made enough to sink a carrier.
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Campfire Ranger
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I had the locksmith over yesterday, scoping out the move (out of one basement and into the other). I gather he's got an "L" shaped sled and winch system for extracting safes out of basements.
When I moved the smaller one (only a 600#er), I discovered two of the anchor bolts were spinning when I went to loosen the nuts. I managed to wedge the safe up enough to get a sawz-all blade under to cut them off.
I'm going to remove the bolts on the bigger one this weekend and expect to have to do the same.
At the new location, sawz-all access will be blocked on three sides by concrete walls - it might be a permanent install....
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Use the screws... they work REALLY good, maybe 5 bucks a piece here at the lumber yard. ANd then you can remove them later if needed much easier.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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