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OP
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Do these have the rebounding hammer like the newer 1894 winchesters?
I am on a long term mission to get a winchester 71, but i've started looking at the browning reproductions. I just want a rifle to hunt with, no collector or safe queen. I plan on putting a good rear peep site and taking it to the woods.
It looks like the reproductions are a pretty good deal money wise, but I really don't want a rebounding hammer.
I think a few on the board here have a reproduction model, any other differences or quirks vs the original model?
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Campfire Outfitter
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The Browning 71's made by Miroku in the mid-1980s do not have a safety, or a rebounding hammer. Though why the rebounding hammer is a problem is beyond me. If you work the lever hard, as it should be worked, you'll never notice the difference in practice. Or at least I haven't in shooting both my 71 and a friend's 1886 Extra-Light reproduction made by Winchester/Miroku. I find the tang safety more annoying, though that can be remedied easily enough by removing it and replacing the mechanism with a metal plug. Here's a pic of my Browning 71 with a Williams peep sight. I like it, but I could be talked out of it as I like the 1886 Extra Lights in 45-70 more.
Last edited by Oregon45; 06/22/10.
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I agree completely on the excellent Browning repros and them not having that STUPID tang safetyt. One good thing about getting a Browning is that you could AI it and not be screwing with an original Winchester. The AI version gives a good deal more powder capacity, the cases last longer and you can get a 250gr Barnes Original out the muzzle at 2500 plus FPS easily. 200 grainers at over 2700. I have had and shot both, and am a BIG fan of the 348AI. If it were me, or did not already own a Winny that had already been AI'ed I woulde be working with Oregon45 here to get that excellent rifle on its way.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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How does your 348AI feed?
I've toyed with the idea of sticking this gun in the safe and setting up a special account to accumulate until I can afford to send it to Doug Turnbull for a full treatment and conversion to 50-110 with a half magazine, half round/half octagon barrel, AAA walnut, case hardening... the list goes on...
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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I have zero experience with ackley improved rifles. But the extra velocity and longer case life sounds nice. I just brought home a new rifle, so I am going to have to work at rebuilding the gun fund for a while. As to the rebounding hammer, I just don't like the asthetics of the mechanism. Seems like a browning may be the way for me to go. Oregan45 please PM me with what you would take for yours, I don't have the funds now, but in a few months I should and yours is setup about exactly as I'd like one.
Anyone have a good link that could school me on what is involved in AI'ing a rifle and who I should have the work done by. I'd like to learn a little more about it.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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One of the great things about the '86 and 71 rifles is the terrific feeding characteristics. Mine will feed EMPTY 349 AI'ed cases all day long. AI'ing the round does not seem to affect it, for sure not in my rifle. P.O. Ackleys two volue set called "Guidebook for shooters and reloaders" Has a lot of info in it regarding doing the improved treatment to a rifle. The loads in it for the 348AI, rather than being sent in by some overzealous hack like many of the dangerous loads in these old books were done by then Guns and Ammo editor Bob Hagel. For sure benefits of the AI cases are much longer case life without case stretching and MUCH greater case capacity. Claimed benefit, but I do not know how one would measure such, is reduced bolt thrust or pressure on the breechface. Whether a valid experiment or not, 'ol PO Acklley took a 30/30 rifle that had been AI'ed and fired it WITH THE BREECHBOLT LOCKING BOLTS REMOVED and it worked fine. To him, this proved his point that the AI theory really did remove bolt thrust from the rifle. Dave Scoville writes, in this months handloader magazine however, that bolt thrust really is mininmal even with non AI rounds and that when and if a levergun fails, it is in the thin barrel area just ahead of or at the front of the chamber at the bottom and that it is nearly impossible to get a lever action rifle to blow its breechbolt backwards or even to damage it. A theory I have no need to test as the Hagel proved data that gives me a full 2500fps from 250gr Barnes original bullets out of my 348AI are quite enough, thank you very much.
I hope this hepls or adds fuel to the fire. I wish I could post some photos for you, thoes 348AI'ed cases topped with a big 'ol round nosed Barnes bullets look COOL!
One more interesting factoid, the BC on these bullets is not bad either! Easily a 200-250 yard Elk smacker.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Campfire Tracker
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Matt,
I have an original M-71 Deluxe and like the rifle very much. I, too, have toyed with the idea of a Browning repo. Altho' I've never fired one, I like the idea of being able to hunt with one and not worry about decreasing collector value.
IMHO, one should not even consider improving one in any way until one has fired an examble therof. I think that many folks will realize that the recoil of the standard .348 is all they want/can handle...
The .348 is actually quite powerful for a lever gun. It is a marvelous example of our firearms history and heritage...
Edw
"As you walk thru life, don't be surprised that there are fewer people that you encounter seeking truth than those seeking confirmation of what they already believe!"
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Campfire Regular
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I had a nice 71 that I got in a trade and someone offered me big money for it so I sold it. I guess I am like you Matt, I did not want a safe queen. In fact I got rid of all my queenies. I do have a brand new Browning 71 and I have never shot it. I would have to get a peep installed to be able to use it since my eyes aren't the best. I hear the .348 is a real hammer like it is. I would really like to make a trade on an newer model used 1895 Winchester in .405. I gave one to a friend for Christmas a couple of years ago who takes me hunting in Mexico. It's a hoot to shoot and it really hits hard. Too bad there is really no way for me to put on a sight I can see for a reasonable amount of money.
"That God could and would, if He were sought."
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Either or both can have a Peep installed pretty cheaply. If you are not using it, please let Matt444 or myself trade you out of you Browning '71. Grasshopper, that 348AI DO come Back on ya, a bit.....
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Campfire Tracker
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I had a carbine model in the standard grade. I added a Lyman receiver sight and put a plug in the rear sigh slot. It was a great shooter. I would suggest adding a recoil pad and having fun. I never should have traded mine away.
Guns don't kill people, it's mostly the bullets
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Hey Safariman...what you got to trade? I have so much stuff, I probably will never shoot the 71 and I don't believe it has ever been fired. I go by a little different method about acquirng rifles or guns in general. I had a few boxes of .348 ammo. that I acquired in a trade somewhere. Therefore, I had to have a rifle to shoot them in. That's the reason I have so many and that's part of the reason I have an ex-wife.
"That God could and would, if He were sought."
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Campfire Member
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i have three Browning M71's. they are without a doubt the most accurate lever guns i have ever shot. with a Williams receiver sight they can group 'em like bolt guns. i have shot 4 different original M71's and the Brownings will shoot rings around them. as a shooter you can't go wrong with the Browning. i shoot cast bullets exclusively anymore as they shoot as well as jacketed. a 250gr. LBT LCFN @ 2200 fps is to me, alot of recoil. i have many bigger guns that don't pound me as hard as that load does.
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P.O. Ackleys two volue set called "Guidebook for shooters and reloaders" Has a lot of info in it regarding doing the improved treatment to a rifle. The loads in it for the 348AI, rather than being sent in by some overzealous hack like many of the dangerous loads in these old books were done by then Guns and Ammo editor Bob Hagel. It was Bob Hutton, not Bob Hagel. Nit picking - sorry. --Bob
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Guns don't kill people, it's mostly the bullets
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Campfire Regular
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My Browning M-71 Carbine is a nice little rifle. The main reason you'd go to the Ackley Improved version is to reduce brass stretching, but a bit more power is available. Here's the difference. The photo is of a slightly different modification, but the overall dimensions are the same. Left to right: .348 Winchester factory case; .348 Winchester necked up to .358" dia; .35-.348 Winchester Ackley Improved. Be aware that Hutton loaded the Lever Power series fairly hot, and the powders are not what they were then. Always reduce loads and work up carefully. Also, rimmed cases don't show excessive pressure as obviously as rimless. Rebarreled and necked up to .35 caliber allows a wider range of bullets from more manufacturers. Notice how the neck shortened when form fired, common to Ackley Improved cartridges.
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Campfire Ranger
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Wrangler John,
GREAT photos! And intel as well.
+ 1 on not really knowing what your pressures are until it os too late trying to use old guidlines. I used the slowest burning powder listed in the PO Ackley book and quit when I hit my goal of 2500fps. Enough, by any standard, for what might need to be done with such a rifle. If I need more I have a 416 Rigby.
Bull Shooter - good catch there. Still a good writer and handloader with useable data if one is conservative in use. I used the stuff only as a guidline to get me close.
Blowtorch, PM sent!
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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