Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR gunsmiths: who do you use or do you do it yourself?

I need to have a 16" upper re-assembled. I bought the parts to assemble one, thinking I'd get the fixtures and do it myslef, then I adjusted priorities and plans and had a guy do it for me. There aren't many around here who have done AR's so the pickin's are slim. This guy has a great rep for AR's and 1911's. I've had him do a couple of 243's and a couple of 1911 triggers with no complaints. The AR upper I gave him had a muzzle break that he didn't tighten, I noticed after getting it home. When I tightened the break, the whole assembly loosened up. So now I figure he doesn't have the understanding or strenght to assemble the thing, anyway. I may be wrong and should probably just take it back and let him have another go at it.

So what do you guys do? I'd love to learn to work on my own and I don't think it's that hard with the right tools. Any do it yourselfers out there? Anyone have a good AR 'smith, he'd like to share?

Let me know. I want to get that 16" upper tried out!

Hey RickyD,

By "the whole assembly loosened up" do you mean that you actually turned the barrel nut too while installing the brake? (Also not to be picky, but why the brake on an AR15 and not a flash hider? The 5.56 is mild to shoot & brakes are sure hard on the ears.)

The barrel nut should be torqued to 80ft-lbs max (although I just tighten snug & then to the next gas tube hole). There really shouldn't be a way to loosen things up by simply attaching a brake. Ideally, you'd just use a barrel vice to hold it stationary while you compress the crush washer with the brake. There should be no additional stress or torque on anything by using this method.

Either way, the AR is an easy ride to assemble (provided you have the right tools) I use a DPMS multi-wrench, an action block, and a barrel vice - along with my assortment of wrenches & roll pin punches.

Give some more specifics & maybe I can be of help.

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I'd rather have a flash suppressor on it too, but the brake came with it and it has forward holes that are supposed to decrease the noise. Maybe a decrease from an airplane engine?.......I dunno. But it was in the mix of stuff I bought, so I figured I'd include it for him to wrench together. He must have missed it.

He's a fine old fella and I hate to drag it back to him. His health seems be in need of a prayer or two lately so he don't need the stress. He only charged me 25 bucks and I've had that much fun with it, just looking it over and weighing the balance.......you know.....playing! But now I want to do some shooting, too.

From noting how solid the Colt upper feels, I never dreamed I was putting any pressure on the barrel nut, let alone enough to break it loose, while I threaded the brake down to compress a split washer. I never even got the washer fully flattened before the assembly came loose. So I wonder if he had it tight enough in the first place.

What I have is (I'm told) a Wilson heavy 16" stainless barrel threaded for a brake/suppressor. It came with the gas tube assembly, floated forearm, and the nut. Oh yeah, and the brake. I bought a complete no-name upper off the internet and it seems pretty decent. It was supposed to have been made by one of the majors. Who really knows but it probably was. The forearm is heavy aluminum with slots and picatanny rails (placed poorly). I have less than 300 bucks in the parts.

I might spring for the AR tooling, but not right now. Too many other things like food and clothing need some funding right now. Anyway, just goes to show it's always something with stuff!

Just put the brake back on with loctite. If you don't need to ever get it off until rebarrleing use 641 bearing retainer. I'm a competitive AR15 user and I guarantee this will work. No need for anything else. It'll hold the sight base on without screws and you can drop the rifle on the base and it won't go anywhere.

For a good match smith whiteoakprecision or whiteoakarmament is the way to go. But they don't deal in fun guns.

Jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for the reply. I don't want to make the brake permanent or even secured temporary until I check out the noise level with it on. My plan is to shoot it on and off and see if I want to leave it on or just put a flash suppressor on and leave it at that. I think if I have it on tight enough to compress the split washer it will be secure enough for a quick test run. I'll sure keep that bearing retainer recommendation in mind for when I do want to secure something permanently. Thanks.

If you want it on tight but not semi permanent, use the purple loctite. I can't think of the number. Stronger than 242 but not like the bearing retainer. BTW the bearing retainer will come off if you heat it with a propane torch. I've replaced so many barrels I think I can do it in my sleep.

FWIW you can't hardly mess up anything on an AR if you follow a guide. Can't get a bad headspace etc...

In fact FWIW the quality of the barrel and how its chambered and the extension is set up is about the most important part of the accuracy formula.

Your Wilson(RRA Barrel maybe?) should shoot under MOA with no problems.

Jeff

I've never had any problem with a crush washer not holding fast. I have had to resort to "pre-crushing" them a bit to be able to get a flash hider lined up properly, though. (Just pre-compressing the washer a bit in a vice to avoid having to use a 3' cheater bar when installing the flash hider.) I like things just shy of "crazy tight" (borrowing one of stick's technical terms) and have never had a problem with things loosening up on my AR's.

There is another company out that sells a "keeper pin" assembly that goes on over the barrel nut. It keeps the barrel from twisting or coming loose until the keeper screws are taken out. I can't recall the mfg. off the top of my head, but it was posted under www.shootingusa.com. The boys in Iraq have the handles on their AR's for urban missions and were twisting the barrels loose with the handles on the forearms when kicking in doors. This company came up with the keeper system to stop the barrels from coming un done. The boys in Iraq are VERY happy with the system. Flinch

The barrel nut won't come loose under our use. I don't doubt it in combat, though use of correct loctite would solve that problem. Just FYI. No flames

????????

The stinkin' Gas tube stops the barrel extension (Barrel nut) from coming loose.......

Unless I missed something in the last 20 years working on Black rifles and the Colt and Bushmaster Armorers courses I gotta call a "DOH I missed something really important, and am asking that the rest of you clue me the hell in!".


Been away for a bit.
Slam away for the disloyalty.....
I deserve it.

E4E

P.S.
Rick,
Thanks!!!
Never thought our little insurrection/Mutiny would result in this.
All the best!
Pat

Well yes and no. I normally put my barrel nuts on and snug and loosen a few times. Then I usually cut one of the tits off and grind down so I have really nice clearance of the gas tube. I've never had mine move on me. But I have seen 2 on the firing line that somehow the nuts became a bit loose. After looking the tube was bound up by the star nut BUT it was loose. I suspect poor assembly in the first place.

I have seen one with a float tube where the whole tube/handguards came loose from the barrel nut. It also bound up on the gas tube.

Needless to say, anything coming loose, even if its stopped by the gas tube, is not inherent to match winning accuracy. Of course you are talking armorers courses. IE the rifle will continue to function and fire and a life may be on the line. I"m talking sub moa accuracy and a match win may be on the line. 2 totally different, yet related issues.

Jeff

Rost,

Torque to 85ftlbs. twice.

On the third time and the alignment aint right, back off slightly, and keep going untill you get the gas tube clearance.

Cutting nubs allows forthe thing to betray you.

Have gotten sub .5 MOA with 130ft. lbs of torque.

The anodizing and finish of the parts leads to false measurements.

Light lube like Rem oil, and Kroil instead of Moly grease minimize the variables while avoiding galling.

Have seen a couple of Crane SPR's with snipped nubs.
Both were seen thanks to them backing off and getting "Weird" after taking a set.

Just like the Gas key torque Values are under review, so is barrel extension torque.

"Feel" is what it is.
Given consistent components.

Accuracy does not have to suffer in the name of reliability.

E4E

P.S.
I like Kroil for a thread lube......
It's thin enough to allow for a better feel above 80ft. lbs.

Wow- lots of torque! Haven't done that much since prior to 1990. I suspect its much more combat ready that way though.

Have not that need in matches. I'll have to pick the brains of my gunsmith on what he uses as torque, if any.

I suspect strongly there is a mindset for match rifles, and a mindset for "my life depends on it" rifles.

FWIW the last rifle I did prior to 1990 had some type of lube on it and was torqued to 135 foot pounds. Taking it apart, the tool broke off nubs twice till I got it free. Since then its been less torque and no problems.

I"m with you on feel though-- so I don't use a torque wrench anymore and just snug it a few times and then do what I have to, including making sure the gas tube is totally free. Of course I"m looking for those 2 inch groups at 600 yards, consistently. So therein lies the rub. Whats more important.

Kroil is so multipurpose one should never be without......

Jeff

Rost,

For disassembly I Use a wrench that engages all of the teeth so I don't get the rounded off nubs.

During assembly though, the Military wrech is used,and I will confess to more than my share of cussing now and then when a good day suddenly goes bad.

Accuracy should not be affected much by the amount of torque applied, if at all.

Sometimes ya just get what ya get and have to go 1/2 a nub further.

On that note,
Have you seen the new FSB with the "Floated" gas tubes, or the new morsels coming from Daniels Defense and LMT?

There are some really tasty concepts involved in the switchbarrel,that would transfer nicely to the Highpower and CMP world.


Oh and umm....
2" groups at 600yds???

I would eat my own left ear for conditions that allow for such a thing!!!!!

I can't get anything but constantly swtching winds around here, even on calm days!!!!

You hiding a 600yd indoor range somewhere or am I Just not spending enough time in church? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Good luck to ya!!
E4E

Those are my goals for test groups. 5 shot groups at 2 inches. Sometimes we get there, sometimes not.

I"ve never been able to drive my service rifle for better than a 200-16x at 600, or if I get 17-18X I'll drop a panic 9 somewhere.... Ya know if you can't get the gun to shoot 2-3 inches or so at 600 then you just dont' have much room for error left.

FWIW the times I burred those nubs I had only the old 3 pronger running. Had not even seen a multi nub tool. Of course that was my early days and in the late 80s early 90s of the AR scene in DCM shooting.

Back to work.

Jeff

FWIW I have my own 600 yard test range bench right out the door and I just simply wait till its calm enough-- or I wait till dark and shoot at 10pm or so with a light on the target.

I"ll have to look at the mentioned products. I'm just not much into anything other than service rifles though. Have a match AR. Shot it in a match once.....

rost,
any chance the house next to you is for sale? or do you mind a camper parked in your dooryard <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
woofer

2" groups at 600 yards! You are my hero!

Anybody want to try and diagnose a rifle that is VERY inconsistent with it's groupings with Black Hills Match ammo? One group will be half MOA the next 2 MOA and back and forth. Same bench, rests, etc. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance

Huntr

Have a few shooters that come by at times to tweak their mid range 600 yard loads. No camper hookups, have to deal with cattle and dogs wanting to dig up your spent projectiles.

Sure is nice having it here though. Trying to figure out how to trim enough trees to make a bench at 980 yards.....

Hunter.... diagnoses. I'm thinking its something loose. But it can still be the ammo though I doubt it. But it could be on the edge of a sweet spot. I'd look at the barrel nut, scope mounts(if using a scope take it off and shoot iron sight groups and compare), gas tube binding barrel nut or carrier key, front sight base loose. Lots of variables.

If you get the variation in iron sight groups then it could be a problem with the rear sight or front sight having play, though it should be overall large groups but the small ones could be flukes.

Have you tried other ammo? Thats the first thing I'd do. And maybe test the BH in another rifle. And let a proven shooter shoot it. FWIW I had folks wanting me to test their ammo and gun at 600 all the time. Ended up about 50% the combo was fine, and 50% of the time it was not accurate. Meant normally tweaking the load.

More data on the gun, ammo etc.... details in a seperate post would be best and you can get more input and also have readable data for others with problems that may not be reading this post.

Jeff