Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Anyone reloading 470 NE?

Ray,

Am I missing something with 5744?

I understand 5744 was developed specifically for large case capacity big bores as a high bulk fast burning powder for reduced loads, negating the need for fillers and it isn't position sensitive. IIRC, Western Powders used the .416 Rigby as the platform for development.

Use of a filler might give you a tad bit better consistency, but isn't necessary.

David

Depending on the load density used, filler could be useful even with 5744 to get reliable ignition.

Imagine this scenario: You have a load with a powder that has 50% case capacity. You have a down hill shot. You tip the muzzle downward, the powder in the case runs from neatly packed against the primer, to congregated behind the bullet, leaving a sizable space between primer and powder. You may not get reliable ignition upon pulling the trigger, especially in cold weather.

I just received an email reply from from Johan Loubser, ballistician for Ramshot Accurate Powders. Quote, "It's not necessary/essential to use a filler. However, you can use it if you want too. Some claim they've seen improvements while other do not. It boils down to the specific combination of components and weapon." Seems Hatari has a case scenario point. Also when shooting your 470 from a treestand...

Paladin,
I have used 5744 both with and without fillers, and in every case I got considerably better accuracy with the fillers with 5744 in the 470 and 450-400..I suspect because of the Fed 215 primer which is the best we have since nobody will sell us the hotter 216 primer that the factory boys use..

I wouldn't know about the .416 Rigby as I would not use a filler in a bottle neck cartridge of any kind, as there is no need and also I probably wouldn't choose 5744 for a reduced load in the Rigby, as I never felt the need to reduce the Rigby that much. I always just cut the load back to the starter book loads and that worked fine for me, but also I have never used lead bullets in the Rigby either, so I'm not qualified to pass judgement on loading the Rigby with cast bullets and 5744..

I suspect Hatari has a point in his post above also.

Looks like Johan hit the nail on the head and well he should have since he developed the powder and is where I got my information (actually from Keith Anderson). Some people like and think they need fillers and some don't.

I suppose if one were hunting with a .470 from a tree stand 30 feet above ground for whitetail with a feeder twenty feet out, or hunting the elusive arctic snow snake, a filler would indeed be mighty handy.

All kidding aside, and specifically speaking of 5744 in the .470, from my limited experience I haven't found the need or use for fillers, and I don't doubt for a second better accuracy might be attained by using them. I have never used Federal 215's have never had a problem lighting any kind of powder, but it could be that I haven't experienced the proper conditions for primer failure. Certain primers have exhibited better accuracy than others in smaller calibers/cases.

I don't know about the Rigby either. I only mentioned it due to the fact that it was one of the main cartridges used to develop 5744 and has considerable capacity for bore diameter.

I've got a little experience using fillers in bottle neck cases and I've found them to be real handy using heavy (115 - 130 grain .224 bullets) in a .223 Remington. No matter how I tilted the gun barrel up, down, tapped or shook the rifle before shooting, I couldn't get any consistency. When I finally found the right filler, everything changed. The filler made all the difference in the load I was working on, but not so much due to holding the powder against the flash hole, but because the filler sealed the case mouth with the chamber not allowing pressure to escape. This was for subsonic loads, so the peak pressure generated wasn't enough to form the case to the chamber and seal it. But this is the Big Bores Only section, so enough about small case capacities and smaller bores.

As a rule, I don't use fillers just because a case is of a particular design. I don't really like to use them, but sometimes they are the only way to achieve the desired results.

David