Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders My New Sidekick

In all fairness to swampman fellas . Lock time is important in any firearm .
However I don�t believe there is a gun out there . Minus some of the very cheap ,cheap side locks . That would have a lock time slow enough anyone other then a professional shooter , would even know about it
IMO and again this is just my opinion. But a far bigger issue is just plain crappy poor quality trigger setups..

Well, I think if you're talking modern in-lines, the differences in ignition time are even smaller, harder to detect, and less consequential with respect to accuracy and I'd be willing to bet that swampy doesn't even know the lock times for the majority of rifles out there. And if you're going to make any conclusions about how lock time affects accuracy, the actual lock times are only half the equation. Once you have the lock times, then you'd have to run controlled tests to see how varying the lock time affects accuracy.

Or, just talk out your ass as swampy is wont to do.

Trigger, yes, and barrel/crown/twist rate for your projectile and a host of other variables all relegate lock time to the back of the bus as a factor affecting accuracy in modern rifles.

yep and what about powder burn rates and ignition temps ????

what good does it do to have a cast action . but then use a powder that ignights at say ??? 750 deg vs one that ignights at 400 deg ?

again as you say . all are so minute that 99.9 would nto know the diffrence .
but ha since we are on it . shouldnt we include that to the list

All I can say is the most accurate muzzleloaders are boltactions.

I beg to differ with ya on the bolt action

That's right, that's all you can say.

Maybe if you keep repeating it, and click your heels together three times........

I wonder how many state and national champion muzzleloaders shoot "bolt actions?"

They aren't allowed to use boltactions. They are stuck with antiques.

And you'd be wrong.

you mean like Rigby's , Tryon, Gibbs and Whitworth rifles

Last I read the championships only state that the rifle must be a reproduction of an original or antique.
So since your bolt action is actually nothing more then a plunger type ignition .
Which existed late 17th early 18th century .

Why do you think it wasn�t used as a successful long range ignition platform for muzzle loading rifles ????
Was it a conspiracy or something ????. I bet that�s got to be it .

i say you need to put you money where your mouth is and give it a go
build a replica rifle and potition for acceptance .
tell then you have 200 + years of long range muzzleloading history saying your full of BS .
i think you been googling to much on bolt actions and have decided that what your reading about centerfires also pertains to muzzleloading .
but again thats my oppenion . you have yours .

im still waiting for the : so you figured this out on your own post "
that one post had me spitting coffee LMAO










guys . your only going toget one liners or qoutes from reporters like RW fromt his guy . im a thinking its best just to ignore him

I had a REM. 50 cal when the first came out.. Its was very very accurate. Years ago,,Rem 700.s centerfires were one of the most accurate rifles out there, and had the fastest lock time of all the rifles out there. This was one the the reasons it was one of the most accurate rifles. The REM Bolt action muzzy, was somewhat the same design. If you think a hammer gun is faster than a bolt gun,, you guys have a lot to learn.....

Who said a hammer gun is faster than a bolt gun?

OK. Prove it.

i dont think anyone is saying its faster. just that its not less accurate .

i also submit that while slower . it is not slower to the point you or most likly anyone else on this board would notice it unless the gun was not working properly .

we also should remeber that there are guns out there that shoot far better then the person pulling the trigger is capable of shooting

Yeah, like all the guns I own . . .

If it was possible to have 5 hammer guns,with the same bullet,same amount of powder,and same ignition source,and shoot 3-5 shot groups with these guns,,,,,and then,,if possible, which it isnt,,,,retofit the same guns with a bolt actions, and with the same loads,ect..im think you would get some better groups....not much better, but enough to see the faster lock time of the bolts actions will make a difference..

I like that,,,,(The only Goverment i trust is my 45-70 GOV)...

I'm thinking you wouldn't. So where does that leave us.

But just for conversation's sake, how fast is the lock time of the "bolt action," and how fast is, say, the T/C Omega?

Also, how big a difference in lock time does there need to be before the average shooter will experience a difference in accuracy?

Also, if lock time makes such a huge difference, I'm thinking swampy will rush right out and get the CVA rifle with the fastest ignition time there is.

Now maybe im way off base here . But lets re cap

The original statements were :

1)The bolt guns are more accurate. The lever makes no sense.
2)Fixed barrel.....much faster lock time.
3)Only the Savage is faster. Just the fact that it's a Remington makes it better than the rest
4)All I can say is the most accurate muzzleloaders are boltactions

Now I left some of the bla bla out . But the above is the jest of it

Lets take #1 shall we .
Bolt guns are more accurate . Again I point out that lever actions also carry a bolt .
The only difference is that a fully bolt action releases the firing pin . While with SOME lever actions like on the Winchester 64 or Marlin�s , the firing pin is struck by a hammer . Which can produce slightly slower lock speed /


2) fixed barrel , much faster lock time .
We already covered the lock time so lets hit the fixed barrel issues
With both designs the barrels are fixed to the receiver. Past that you either gave a floating or bedded barrel . Of which by the way is how. Remington got the name of Bedington . Because it take so much bedding compound to properly bed the receiver and barrels.
As to whats more accurate a free floating or bedded barrel ?? Well that still a mater of debate .


Now if one subscribes to the point of view that . Lever actions are less accurate because the stock is a two piece and that the magazine or in some cases loading tube is attached to the barrel .
Then how does this relate to modern muzzle loading when they all carry RR in the same position and most have some type of two piece stock .
I would also submit that if the true issue was the 2 piece stock , then you all would be shooting traditional rifles for the accuracy

3) physically impossible since they both are based off the same action .
With the only difference being that the savage has a stronger lock up . � assuming we are talking about the ML10
So the only diffrence in speed is concerning muzzle loading
a) breech design
b) powder choice

4)All I can say is the most accurate muzzleloaders are bolt actions
Is this because the are slower to cycle ? Which again is negated by the fact we are talking muzzleloaders
Is it because in the prone position you can sometimes achieve a more solid rest
Again we are talking muzzle loading rifles here .
Is it because like with a side lock , you don�t have the internal torque playing a part in ignition. I would point out you don�t have that with any inline ignition .

I have to wonder . Do you understand what the bolt in a bolt action actually does what purpose it serves .



as to Brucie exsample

IF and again it�s a big if , the only way one could do such a test , is to completely remove the human element.
Which mean the guns would have to be mounted and fired electronically in order to discern which design was more accurate
As such lock time would mater 0 .
IE no human element . No issue with lock time .

When you add in a human element then you start adding human variables that effect accuracy . IE Trigger pull . Hold , stance , sight picture , stock fit and design .

Of which again I point out that the biggest issue with all be they blot , lever or side lock . Is a crappy trigger pull . Which will effect a shooters accuracy far more then .a 500 thousands of second , slower lock time .

Like smoke pole . I would agree that if one could do just what you stated . And completely remove the human element from the question so as to base the findings on accuracy of design . I don�t think one would see any difference at all .
�IF� all one was doing was changing out the receivers

LMAO i just got this LOL its been going right over my head

ya , then why isnt her on here toughting the electra for its lock time LOL

good poiont smokepole

Rem. Etronix, anyone?

ROR......