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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Derby and hawkeye with plus ones,Sean. Yeah, he better watch out.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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could it beeeeeee,...the GOVERNMENT? ![[Linked Image]](http://scottfmathews.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/church_lady.jpg)
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Treason is pretty serious business to discuss. Treason is what's going on in Washington on a massive scale. What's going on here is a discussion of ways to confront treason ... ways the Founding Fathers hoped Americans would always confront treason when it showed its ugly head. Hawk, you need to actually go read Article III, Section 3. for someone with such a restrictive definition of war powers as yourself, treason means aiding someone in a declared war with the United States. it doesn't mean someone with whose politics you disagree....and the rush to describe political disagreements as treason is a trait usually seen in totalitarian states.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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what is this, retard civics class? whiners who either don't participate in elections, or happened to be on the losing side of an election, and don't like the resulting policies now making internet blather about revolution. this is the kind of insanity the left fell into after the 2000 election.
GTF over it, move on, and vote the bastards out. it has happened more than a hundred times since the founding.....it's called congressional elections. and reciting the declaration as if it permits treason against the constitution by the losing side in elections doesn't really get you anywhere.
if you want to come out of the closet as coup plotters, who cannot accept the verdict of the ballot box, then come out. but don't pretend there is some constitutional basis for it. Steve, the only clear statement I've made on the subject of violent revolution in this thread is that Obama's masters are hoping for such in order to identify enemies of tyranny and destroy them. Hardly an endorsement of violent revolution. Furthermore, you keep suggesting that just because some form of government has been voted for by the majority that it is de facto non-tyrannical. Where do you get this stuff? Tyranny of the majority is no less tyranny. Voting for tyranny was not an option provided for in the US Constitution, and the promoting of it, supported by a majority or not, is tantamount to treason.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I sure hope online educations don't cost a great deal of money!
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Posts: 131,954 Likes: 54 |
As I recall, Hitler and his Nazi party started out as a lawfully elected government. I don't think the conversation the OP referenced was about a specific coup being planned, but most likely about under what condition(s) replacing a government would be required under the Constitution. I would be more concerned if our military was NOT willing to uphold the Constitution against domestic enemies in elected office than I'm afraid of our military turning us into a banana republic military dictatorship. There is a very important reason the military pledges their allegiance to the Constitution and not to the President, Congress, or the federal court system. Upholding the Constitution is not treason; by the same token, NOT upholding the Constitution IS treason. Very true.
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Posts: 48,411
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
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NOT upholding the Constitution IS treason. Very true. hope you're not teaching that to your students...go read the constitutional definition, and then slap yourself twice.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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It is actually mind boggling scary some of these premises coming from some of our members.
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
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Treason is pretty serious business to discuss. Treason is what's going on in Washington on a massive scale. What's going on here is a discussion of ways to confront treason ... ways the Founding Fathers hoped Americans would always confront treason when it showed its ugly head. Hawk, you need to actually go read Article III, Section 3. for someone with such a restrictive definition of war powers as yourself, treason means aiding someone in a declared war with the United States. it doesn't mean someone with whose politics you disagree....and the rush to describe political disagreements as treason is a trait usually seen in totalitarian states. What's going on is not a mere political disagreement. War is currently being waged on the government of the United States. So far the aggressors are winning with little if any real resistance.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,954 Likes: 54 |
I sure hope online educations don't cost a great deal of money! For you, Isaac, it's free. You're welcome.
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Joined: Jul 2006
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Posts: 62,043 |
Worth what I paid for then!
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,954 Likes: 54
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,954 Likes: 54 |
NOT upholding the Constitution IS treason. Very true. hope you're not teaching that to your students...go read the constitutional definition, and then slap yourself twice. Better phrased would be "The active undermining of the Constitution by those sworn to uphold it is treason." But I agree with the spirit of what the man stated.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Steve;
Respectfully, as per "against" the Constitution, should (God forbid) it ever come to that:
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
"When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, -- That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." Another excellent post, Sean. what is this, retard civics class? whiners who either don't participate in elections, or happened to be on the losing side of an election, and don't like the resulting policies now making internet blather about revolution. this is the kind of insanity the left fell into after the 2000 election. GTF over it, move on, and vote the bastards out. it has happened more than a hundred times since the founding.....it's called congressional elections. and reciting the declaration as if it permits treason against the constitution by the losing side in elections doesn't really get you anywhere. if you want to come out of the closet as coup plotters, who cannot accept the verdict of the ballot box, then come out. but don't pretend there is some constitutional basis for it. Steve; If you believe that the Founders removed the ability of the populace to throw off a .gov outside of an election cycle, after having just formed one that way... And, that the 9th and 10th do not reserve to the people the ability the ability to do the same... Well, I think I have a better judge of you than that, and figure your comments more guarded than apparent to some. Out of respect for you, and given the gravity of the discussion, I remove myself from this one online.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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What part/aspect of our past history is repeating itself now which compels such incendiary dialogue? Well, those who opposed the views of the Founding Fathers, and blindly found their solice in the laws of the Crown, vehemently considered the Patriots as traitors for even talking about Independence. That's certainly repeating itself though the context is slightly different..... There were droves of people who found living under a tyranical rule comfortable....that's certainly repeating. The very debate here today, and the division of our ranks this debate it creating, is repetative of the debate and division that took place for many years prior to the start of the Revolutionary War. The simple real threat of We The People, bound together by what our Constitution GUARANTEES US, being WILLING to step up and defend Our Freedom from tyranny, might be the very thing that prevents the need for us to do it. Think about it, We The People....... Come on, Bob, the birth of our history was not just a series of cartoon-esque drawings and distorted paintings in a history book with neat stories attached, it was real People, in real dire circumstances, who had had enough and wanted to be Free Men more than anything else. MUCH, now, is eerily similar..............
![[Linked Image]](http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c66/wildswalker/siglinepic3.jpg)
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Derby and hawkeye with plus ones,Sean. Yeah, he better watch out. I chalk those up to blind squirrel theory happenstance. Even those two have to get at least a little something right every now and then, if only by mistake.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Oct 2003
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Upholding the Constitution is not treason; by the same token, NOT upholding the Constitution IS treason. actually no, it isn't....but making war on the United States government is. if you're pissed vote them out, file a lawsuit, give a speech, start a newspaper, write a blog. when you can't do any of those things because the government stopped you from it, then come back and talk about blood of tyrants and stuff like that. but till, then don't make a fool of yourself...and the conservative movement...by talking 'bout no revolution. Steve - I apologize for offending your sensibilities by using the general Merriam-Webster definition of treason (i.e., "1: the betrayal of a trust") rather than the specific legal definition that would be used at the trial of someone accused of the crime of treason. As with a lot of things the Founding Fathers were wise enough to enshrine the legal definition of the crime of treason into the Constitution to avoid abuse as you indicated, but the general usage of the word treason is certainly applicable to what I was describing.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,954 Likes: 54 |
What part/aspect of our past history is repeating itself now which compels such incendiary dialogue? Well, those who opposed the views of the Founding Fathers, and blindly found their solice in the laws of the Crown, vehemently considered the Patriots as traitors for even talking about Independence. That's certainly repeating itself though the context is slightly different..... There were droves of people who found living under a tyranical rule comfortable....that's certainly repeating. The very debate here today, and the division of our ranks this debate it creating, is repetative of the debate and division that took place for many years prior to the start of the Revolutionary War. The simple real threat of We The People, bound together by what our Constitution GUARANTEES US, being WILLING to step up and defend Our Freedom from tyranny, might be the very thing that prevents the need for us to do it. Think about it, We The People....... Come on, Bob, the birth of our history was not just a series of cartoon-esque drawings and distorted paintings in a history book with neat stories attached, it was real People, in real dire circumstances, who had had enough and wanted to be Free Men more than anything else. MUCH, now, is eerily similar.............. Some very intriguing observations, right there.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,954 Likes: 54 |
Derby and hawkeye with plus ones,Sean. Yeah, he better watch out. I chalk those up to blind squirrel theory happenstance. Even those two have to get at least a little something right every now and then, if only by mistake. I give you more credit than that, Sean. You may be wrong a lot, but a blind squirrel?? That's taking self-deprecation too far. 
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 61,130 |
Derby and hawkeye with plus ones,Sean. Yeah, he better watch out. I chalk those up to blind squirrel theory happenstance. Even those two have to get at least a little something right every now and then, if only by mistake. I give you more credit than that, Sean. You oughta, if by no more than happenstance.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
What part/aspect of our past history is repeating itself now which compels such incendiary dialogue? Well, those who opposed the views of the Founding Fathers, and blindly found their solice in the laws of the Crown, vehemently considered the Patriots as traitors for even talking about Independence. That's certainly repeating itself though the context is slightly different..... There were droves of people who found living under a tyranical rule comfortable....that's certainly repeating. The very debate here today, and the division of our ranks this debate it creating, is repetative of the debate and division that took place for many years prior to the start of the Revolutionary War. The simple real threat of We The People, bound together by what our Constitution GUARANTEES US, being WILLING to step up and defend Our Freedom from tyranny, might be the very thing that prevents the need for us to do it. Think about it, We The People....... Come on, Bob, the birth of our history was not just a series of cartoon-esque drawings and distorted paintings in a history book with neat stories attached, it was real People, in real dire circumstances, who had had enough and wanted to be Free Men more than anything else. MUCH, now, is eerily similar.............. the patriots WERE traitors to the Crown...although they always tried to argue that their beef was with George III's ministers and not his royal Personage. not much way to paper around that. but the "revolution" boys need to unwad their panties, take a deep breath, and stop acting like hysterical democrat women in 2000. yes, we lost an election and have a horrible president and a bolshie Congress. but, dudes, they were legally elected and they ARE the president and the Congress. you don't like that?....and I certainly don't....you vote them out, just as the Constitution contemplates will happen. that's how we do things in America. and stop mistaking a political dispute with a pack of leftie nit wits for a casus belli. it undermines the integrity of the right wing political opposition when people start blathering about coups....as well it should....and frightens away those very voters you need to make sure nothing like this happens again. now, if on the other hand, you simply don't believe in majority rule in a constitutional republic, and think you should just have it your way because you're right.....well, that's a fascist coup d'etat, not a constitutional remedy. some folks don't seem to grasp the distinction. those who lightly chatter about revolution should google up some images of real ones....or just try Lebanon on for size.
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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