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A friend of mine just returned from a hunt in Namibia, where he used both 210 Scirocco's and 210 TSX's out of his 340 Wby.
He was very impressed by the Scirocco......they hit hard, penetrated and held together well........so well in fact that he didn't recover a bullet........
However, the Nosler AB was not given a good wrap by the PH, and two other contract PH's he met.......they all said they were too soft, despite the core bonding, with a much thinner jacket than the Scirocco.
Who has used both or either projectile on PG and what were your observations on their performance.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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A good friend of mine had equally poor performance with AB in Africa as well as here in the US with Elk and Mule Deer out of a 300 Weatherby so I never used them. Personally I would not use either the Scirocco or the ABomb out of a 340 Wby or for that matter out of anything faster than 2800 fps. TSXs TTSXs, A Frames, TBBC or Partitions are a better choice I think. On the other hand another friend uses the 260AB out of his 375 H&H and loves them. I've switched almost exclusively to TSXs or TTSXs. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Campfire Kahuna
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Blair,
The one safari where I saw a lot of AccuBonds used was a big cull shoot in South Africa, where the guy who owned the land contracted with a local butcher for 5 tons of game meat. The shooting was done by two groups of 10 or so American hunters over most of a month. Aside from the culling, the Americans also took a number of trophies.
The AccuBonds ranged in size from 140 7mm's to 250-grain 9.3's, and there wasn't a problem. Among other animals, I saw one guy take a big blue wildebeest with the 140 from his 7mm-08. One shot kill, bull went 75 yards and piled up. Another guy got the unoffocial "best shot of the hunt" award by taking 14 animals with a .338 Winchester Magnum and 225 AB's. The first 12 animals were one-shot kills, and included a blue wildebeest bull, three kudu bulls, a gemsbok bull and a waterbuck bull. The extra shots were fired on a springbok he finally hit a little off-center, at a blue wildebeest that he "tried to get fancy on" (his words) by shooting it in the head to preserve the hide for a rug. Missed the brain, but then dropped it with a chest shot.
I used a number of 250-grain 9.3's on animals from cull warthog to kudu and gemsbok bulls. All worked just fine, even on severe angling shots.
I haven't seen as many Scirocco II's used yet, but so far they have all done very well. The only difference between them and the original Scirocco's is that they aren't heated up as much, so the jacket stays harder.
I have sectioned both bullets and the SII does not have a thicker jacket than the AccuBond, in fact in many bullets the AB's jacket is thicker.
Construction of the AB's depends on diameter and weight. The heavier ones are designed to retain more weight, especially in larger diameters, just like Partitions.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I've never used the Scirocco on PG, but I, too, used 140 gr. AccuBonds out of a 7mm-08 with great success on game up to and including kudu and gemsbok. As jorge suggested, perhaps the guys who had issues with them were indeed seeing a speed limitation, as mine topped out at just 2769 fps at the muzzle. They held together and mushroomed perfectly.
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Campfire Kahuna
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That's no doubt a factor.
The most "strain" I've seen put on an AccuBond in Africa was a 160-grain shot from a 7mm Dakota at under 100 yards, the animal a red haartebeest bull. The bullet worked fine, even at a muzzle velocity of 3100 and the close impact.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Blair,
The one safari where I saw a lot of AccuBonds used was a big cull shoot in South Africa, where the guy who owned the land contracted with a local butcher for 5 tons of game meat. The shooting was done by two groups of 10 or so American hunters over most of a month. Aside from the culling, the Americans also took a number of trophies.
The AccuBonds ranged in size from 140 7mm's to 250-grain 9.3's, and there wasn't a problem. Among other animals, I saw one guy take a big blue wildebeest with the 140 from his 7mm-08. One shot kill, bull went 75 yards and piled up. Another guy got the unoffocial "best shot of the hunt" award by taking 14 animals with a .338 Winchester Magnum and 225 AB's. The first 12 animals were one-shot kills, and included a blue wildebeest bull, three kudu bulls, a gemsbok bull and a waterbuck bull. The extra shots were fired on a springbok he finally hit a little off-center, at a blue wildebeest that he "tried to get fancy on" (his words) by shooting it in the head to preserve the hide for a rug. Missed the brain, but then dropped it with a chest shot.
I used a number of 250-grain 9.3's on animals from cull warthog to kudu and gemsbok bulls. All worked just fine, even on severe angling shots.
I haven't seen as many Scirocco II's used yet, but so far they have all done very well. The only difference between them and the original Scirocco's is that they aren't heated up as much, so the jacket stays harder.
I have sectioned both bullets and the SII does not have a thicker jacket than the AccuBond, in fact in many bullets the AB's jacket is thicker.
Construction of the AB's depends on diameter and weight. The heavier ones are designed to retain more weight, especially in larger diameters, just like Partitions. John, Thanks for the detailed reply......that cull hunt would give you some good data to work with! And it's very interesting in what you say about the AB in the heavier weights having a thicker jacket than the SII, not to mention the heat treatment............ We sectioned a 210 SII prior to Ross going on his hunt and the jacket was so thick towards the base that the core material was very thin.........which explains his decison to try them in conjuntion with the 210 TSX's. He was really impressed by the way the 210SII's performed, hence my post. The PH, Mike Kibble also uses the 90gr SII in a 6mm-284 and swears by their performance even on red hartebeest. Regards, Blair.
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A good friend of mine had equally poor performance with AB in Africa as well as here in the US with Elk and Mule Deer out of a 300 Weatherby so I never used them. Personally I would not use either the Scirocco or the ABomb out of a 340 Wby or for that matter out of anything faster than 2800 fps. TSXs TTSXs, A Frames, TBBC or Partitions are a better choice I think. On the other hand another friend uses the 260AB out of his 375 H&H and loves them. I've switched almost exclusively to TSXs or TTSXs. jorge Jorge, I have had the same sort of results with AB's on scrub cattle here in Oz, together with some very limited testing from my 338RUM on oryx in Namibia. But that shooting was done with 225's and down........might try the 250's after what John has related.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Blair: I've pretty much done a "one stop shopping" with Barnes TSXs or TTSXs. About the only other "serious" bullet I use is the Swift A Frame and that is because I have a "lifetime" supply of 400gr for my 416 Rigby.
One other caveat, I felt uneasy with the 210 TSX for leopard out of my 338 so I've worked up some great loads that shoot to the same POI as the TSXs with Partitions. Bottom line is I stay away from ABs, IBs or BTs. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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jorge,
I can understand your rationale......
I have had good results with the A-Frames as well and they usually shoot damn well.
As an aside, Mike's younger brother, Brian Kibble swears by them in his 300 Weatherby as a PG, back up rifle.
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I used 160 gr Accubonds in my 7mm RM for six PG animals on my 2005 South African hunt. All animals that were shot "on the shoulder" were complete pass through DRT kills. That included a Red Hartebeest at 200 yds and a Black Wildebeest at 250 yds.
Back at the skinning shed, my PH, who also shot a 7mm RM and did extensive reloading and testing with his, was continually amazed by the large wound channel that my 160 gr ABs left inside the animals.
I have also used that same 7mm RM 160gr AB load on 2 Caribou, a Musk ox, and a cow elk.
SAVE 200 ELK, KILL A WOLF
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Take your pick, As far as I'm concerned a "bonded core" is a "bonded core" and they all work the same as far as I can tell and that is they are all excellent..
I still like the Nosler Partition as a personal choice, but maybe thats just old thinking, but hey its based on shooting hundreds of animals with it, and observing it used on hundreds more and based on that I'm pretty well decided on the partitions.
I don't really know of any "bad bullets" being manufactured today as the bullet companies have outdone themselves in this last century. I have not had a bullet failure in I can't remember when, but at one time bullet failure as described today was pretty darn common, they mostly all came apart but they usually killed the animal and I say usually.
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I used 160 gr Accubonds in my 7mm RM for six PG animals on my 2005 South African hunt. All animals that were shot "on the shoulder" were complete pass through DRT kills. That included a Red Hartebeest at 200 yds and a Black Wildebeest at 250 yds.
Back at the skinning shed, my PH, who also shot a 7mm RM and did extensive reloading and testing with his, was continually amazed by the large wound channel that my 160 gr ABs left inside the animals.
I have also used that same 7mm RM 160gr AB load on 2 Caribou, a Musk ox, and a cow elk.
Can't argue with that performance.............especially those shots that were pass throughs for on the shoulder placement.
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It seems to me that some don't take into consideration the difference in a cow elk or Eland and a bull elk or Eland. That difference can be as roughly much as 600 or more pounds on the high end on elk and possibly more I suspect in a few cases..In Eland the differnce can be probably as much as 1000 or more pounds perhaps.
That makes a difference in what caliber one should pick perhaps. It does with me..If I draw a cow permit in Bedkys hayfield, I will take my 30-30, or 250 Savage or whatever. If I draw a bull permit in a good area out comes the 338 with either 210 Noslers at 3005 FPS or the 300 gr. Woodleighs at 2500 FPS and I may take both bullet weights as they shoot to the same POI in my gun, I am prepared for whatever is offered...
Just my personal take on the subject and I wouldn't feel undergunned with the old 30-06 with 180 or 200 gr. Noslers.
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I cannot comment on the SS's as I have never used them. In 2007 I hunted Namibia for plains game using my 30-06 and 165 grain NAB's. I took 9 animals (kudu, springbuck, impala, blue wildebeast, gemsbuck and Hartmanns zebra to name a few) and all were one shot kills. Distances were mostly under 100 yards with the exception of the springbuck which was about 200. In March I went back and used 200 grain NAB's in my 338. I took 3 gemsbuck, a bull and a cow eland, a hartebeast and a few others. Once again, distances were fairly close and I had no problems. Both eland took 2 shots, but they were anchored and the sencond shots were to finish them off. Hope this helps.
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Lawd I pray the SS isn't too tough to open up reliably on deer sized game from a 338-06. Starting it at 2750 fps isn't anything near warp 9 like the 340 Wby and at 300 yards it's getting down to 2200 fps. I don't plan to try to take a poke further than 300 yards.
Enjoying Each Sunrise...
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I'm running the 225g Interbond in my 338 rcm. I probably don't even need a bonded bullet at the sedate 2650 fps I'm running them but I have almost 1000 of the interbonds left over from my 338 Lapua days.
I haven't used the rcm on game yet so I hope the IB isn't too tough to open well at those speeds. I've used the 165g IB from a 300 wsm on a few deer and the results were great. I've used the 260g AB from a 375 ruger in africa for 5 one shot kills in a row. I think the interbond holds together better then the AB but it also forms a larger mushroom and may not penetrate as much do to frontal resistance.
I haven't tried the SS's but I would be interested to hear if anyones used the 225g IB on game and what the results were.
Bb
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I used 160 gr Accubonds in my 7mm RM for six PG animals on my 2005 South African hunt. All animals that were shot "on the shoulder" were complete pass through DRT kills. That included a Red Hartebeest at 200 yds and a Black Wildebeest at 250 yds.
Back at the skinning shed, my PH, who also shot a 7mm RM and did extensive reloading and testing with his, was continually amazed by the large wound channel that my 160 gr ABs left inside the animals.
I have also used that same 7mm RM 160gr AB load on 2 Caribou, a Musk ox, and a cow elk.
BB: Sounds like they are pretty tough.....
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Mule Deer, I sure do agree with you on the 9.3x62 and the use of 250 gr. bullets, even the 286 gr. Noser is a little tough for deer, but it doesn't waste a lot of good meat is the upside.. I don't like the 270 gr. Speer as its too soft..I have loaded up a truck load 250 gr. Balistic Tips and 230 gr. GS Customs HPs. The GS customs 230 gr. HP's are the berries on light skinned game and my favorite so far, The light green tipped Balistic tips should be about perfect for Mule Deer,if not I will be pulling bullets until hell freezes over!  I believe the light green tipped Balistic tips have been discontinued for some reason????? not sure.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ray,
The 250-grain 9.3 Ballistic Tips were discontinued when the 250-grain AccuBond came out, as were several of the other above-.30 Ballistic Tips. From what I can tell by sectioning bullets, the AccuBonds are exactly the same bullet as the Ballistic Tips except bonded.
I have had the same experience as you with the 286 Partition. A very good bullet but it doesn't expand all that widely, due to the partition being moved forward. It kills deer and doesn't shoot up much meat, but it doesn't kill deer as well as the 250 AccuBond.
I have pretty much settled on the 250 AccuBond as an all-around bullet in the 9.3x62 and similar rounds, as it kills the smaller stuff noticeably faster than any 286 I've ever tried, but also works on heavier game. It has worked very well on big elk and kudu, and I used it on a grizzly last year in Alaska where it also worked perfectly.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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I kniw a arizona coues is far from african pg but my 270 wsm pushes accubonds at 3230 fps. I put one into the shoulder of a coues at about 35 yards. Recovered the bullet in the rear quarter. Retained about 67 percent.
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