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I asked Barsness about that and that's not what he recommends now or in the Optics book he wrote. I don't see why you would do that unless you hunt in temp's of 140 degrees. John told me he dunks scopes in warm water (comfortable to the touch) for 30 seconds or so.
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Campfire Ranger
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so is argon/krypton even better than nitrogen? i hear the molecule is bigger [/quote] Honestly I didnt go look at the molecular weight of each and compare. But from the hip I'd say yes. Argon is less reactive than Nitrogen. It is suposedly less reactive to temp change also. Maybe it plays different with light also....... Its all meaningless to the shooter. But Costco will put Nitrogen in your tires of your car if you want. For alot of the same reasons they use it in scopes. [/quote] If your lucky certain brands leak on the first shot.
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Campfire Ranger
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If your lucky certain brands leak on the first shot.
Or after you get done boiling them...
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Campfire Ranger
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Ray Atkinson recently posted the following:
"Also all the nitrogen goes out of any scope after about a year, even in todays best high dollar scopes or so the big boys have told me..the secret is in the seal. Just passing that on for what its worth, I suppose they should know.
But, if one takes one of these scopes apart then do it in a clean enviorment and keep the scope standing on its front lens at all time and don't let it tip..Nitrogen is heavier than air and will not come up and out or the scope unless you tip it..carefully slide on the ring, then the rubber collar, then ocular lens and presto you still have the nitrogen in it, at least for awhile and if it had any in it to start with, which isn't likely in the first place on an old Lyman...Anyway thats the process used back yonder by the best of gunsmiths."
I claim NO EXPERTISE in the area of optics, but I would be surprised/disappointed if the nitrogen leaked out of my Leupolds. Likewise, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the nitrogen, if there ever was any nitrogen, in my old steel-tube Weavers and Lyman Alaskans has leaked out over the years.
Jeff If the nitrogen leaked out of the scope within the first year and the owner of said scope lived in a humid climate they would see fogging internally.
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I don't know about this molecular size argument. Argon gas is in the form of single Argon atoms, while Nitrogen gas is in the form of N2 molecules, and without looking it up because I don't have the reference at home I would be surprised if the N2 molecule wasn't larger, or at least longer, than the Ar atom.
I also would be surprised if either gas doesn't leak out over time, but purging the scope with a dry gas like nitrogen or argon will ensure that it starts out dry and will probably stay dry for some time. Certainly if you open your scope, whatever nitrogen or argon is in there will instantly depart, Mr. Atkinson's statements to the contrary.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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That's very close to what I've been led to believe. Argon is better than Nitrogen because the molecules are larger. My 6.5X32IF Minox binocular is purged with Argon. A Krypton/Argon mixture should be even better. The important thing is if the scope actually leaks. The big difference is between the gases passing through an effective seal by osmosis (sp ?) and a seal that no longer works. That's why it's a good idea to test scopes by submerging them in warm, 140 degree water and seeing if they leak. If they leak, after 5 mins or so, then everytime the air pressure changes, air will enter or leave the scope, along with moisture. Something you don't want in a scope. E Since moisture is larger than Nitrogen or Argon, then that doeswn't mean that the moisture can get in even if some of the Nitrogen or Argon leak out.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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If some want to dunk their scopes in hot water so be it. Since that is something that is hard to imagine a scope being subjected to, I find little interest in doing so for the reason of why subject it to an extreme that may cause it to fail prematurely. Which in all likelihood would be at the wrong time. Leave them outside on a cold winter night then bring them in the house and see what happens seems to be more realistic of real world conditions. Let the manufacturer do the extreme testing in it's R/D department. Can't remember of hearing about a Leupold of recent manufacturer fogging. Even by the non Leupold people on this forum.
Last edited by battue; 09/17/10.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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That is the point exactly. Stressing scope seals beyond what they would ever encounter in real life hunting conditions is pointless and irrelevant. Would you throw your scope or bino into 20 feet of water to see if would withstand heavy rainfall?
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Campfire Tracker
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Guys, I agree.
You might be able to heat a riflesope up to 140 degrees in actualy use if it is sitting in a vechicle outside of Bagdad in the Summer, but it damn sure won't be submerged in water while you do it..
That type of seal 'test is pretty much abuse.. just like shooting a barrel until it gets super hot to see "how good the steel is" by shooting the throat out.
To all gunmaker critics- "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.."- Teddy Roosevelt
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Campfire Tracker
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So,I'm thinkin now that my molecule's are bigger than most.. I'm good with that...
Come on America, Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I've heard that scopes need to be air conditioned or you shift POI. In the sun they heat up and start to stretch and move around. You need a chunk of aluminum several inches away with chromoly steel in between to keep that from happening. Very complex thermodynamics....
Me
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Who ever told ya that needs a rehab stay....
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Campfire Tracker
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I wrap all my guns in aluminum foil..doesn't everyone?
Come on America, Athletes and actors are not heroes, only soldiers, airmen,marines and sailors get that respect�and let's add firemen and LEO's
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I've heard that scopes need to be air conditioned or you shift POI. In the sun they heat up and start to stretch and move around. You need a chunk of aluminum several inches away with chromoly steel in between to keep that from happening. Very complex thermodynamics.... Ask anyone. They will tell you that is the real value of the high rings.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Kahuna
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I've heard that scopes need to be air conditioned or you shift POI. In the sun they heat up and start to stretch and move around. You need a chunk of aluminum several inches away with chromoly steel in between to keep that from happening. Very complex thermodynamics.... Ask anyone. They will tell you that is the real value of the high rings. Okay, now THAT is fuggin' funny! I'm ROLLIN'! And, yes, I know that was a joke. WELL DONE, Ringman!
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Campfire Regular
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Ray Atkinson recently posted the following:
"Also all the nitrogen goes out of any scope after about a year, even in todays best high dollar scopes or so the big boys have told me..the secret is in the seal. Just passing that on for what its worth, I suppose they should know.
But, if one takes one of these scopes apart then do it in a clean enviorment and keep the scope standing on its front lens at all time and don't let it tip..Nitrogen is heavier than air and will not come up and out or the scope unless you tip it..carefully slide on the ring, then the rubber collar, then ocular lens and presto you still have the nitrogen in it, at least for awhile and if it had any in it to start with, which isn't likely in the first place on an old Lyman...Anyway thats the process used back yonder by the best of gunsmiths."
I claim NO EXPERTISE in the area of optics, but I would be surprised/disappointed if the nitrogen leaked out of my Leupolds. Likewise, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that the nitrogen, if there ever was any nitrogen, in my old steel-tube Weavers and Lyman Alaskans has leaked out over the years.
Jeff No, it does not leak out in one year. Don't believe everything you have heard.
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Campfire Tracker
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I used the fifteen foot drop test on one of my VX-3 1.75-6 scopes and it passed with flying colors. It didn't even change zero! I let it slip out of the ladder stand, and the rifle landed in the snow barrel first. I cleaned out the barrel and was good to go. I did switch stands in case the naughty words scared the deer away. whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger! There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I used the fifteen foot drop test on one of my VX-3 1.75-6 scopes whelennut I'll have to remember that for when I test my VX-3 scope..
Don Buckbee
JPFO NRA Benefactor Member NSSA Life Member
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Where's the post or e-mail where he said that, RD ? The book, "Optics for the Hunter" does say just that, page 43-45. In the book, he doesn't specify 140 degree water or 5 mins. That I've seen him state in other articles or posts. Odviously you've never hunted or shot in really warm temps if you think a scope would never warm to 140 degrees. Try putting your hand on a black scope on a day when it's been in full sun for a while and the air temperture, in the shade, is over 105. E
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E, I PM'ed John after seeing you state this thinking perhaps he actually did say something you claim he did and as usual he didn't. If you feel that your test is indicative of hunting conditions you encounter that's fine. You should just state that instead of telling everyone that John Barsness stated it and save lots of folks from sending their scopes to Leupold for repair.
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