Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Jack O'Conner/elk/270 win

I am presently working my way through a book about the life of Jack O'Conner. I read last evening that he killed 21 bull elk in his 50 career. 17 of the 21 were killed with the 270 win. Did not say what load he used. However, his Grizzly load with the 270 was a 150 gr nosler partition. We have better bullets today than JOC had access to so I would go on the line to say the 270 is a fine elk cartridge. given the opportunity however, I would take my 30-06 with 180 gr partitions. thanks but no "lubricated" bullets for me.

'Bob-

O'Connor did good work with his .270. When he describes his shot placement, it is almost always through the ribs behind the shoulder, no matter what the game. Had he been less patient and precise, and tried punching more than ribs, he may have had a different track record.

C&B

It is often stated (surmised?) that one of the reasons Jack and Elmer disagreed so much about small and fast versus big and slow was the way they hunted and the terrain they hunted in.

Jack hunted back in the days when a decent hunter could find elk grazing out peacefully in open alpine meadows. He could wait for a broadside shot. He also loved sheep hunting, another open country pursuit. He was also one hell of a good shot.

Elmer more often than not prowled the thick timber. He needed a bullet that would punch through an elk from any angle since he would have a short time to make the shot. Also, Elmer grew up shooting big black powder guns and I�m guessing just took a liking to what those big slugs would do.

That REALLY oversimplifies things, but is one of the things I�ve heard repeated a lot.

One thing mentioned in the book is that JOC lost his first elk. He shot it with the 270 and found it three days later, spoiled. Shortly thereafter, JOC built a 35 whelen for elk but there is no record of him shooting an elk with it. Again, 17 of 21 elk were shot with the 270.

In one of Jack's writings he says he soon discovered that going to the 35 whelen over his 270 was a mistake. He used the 06 quite a bit.
Prowl around used book stores and sites like Alibris.com to find Jack's works. Well worth the reading and gives a lot better insite than someone elses interpetations of what he wrote.

I am just starting to get around to JOC, I am reading a biography and will eventually get to some of his original stuff. Just finished Uhuru by Ruark, pretty strong stuff!

Another writer long gone that wrote alot of good stuff was Les Bowman.

Re: Ranch13's post -- Bowman had lots of experience to share and I appreciated his writing. Both O'Connor and Keith were favorites of mine as well. Bob Hagel is maybe the one I always read and re-read to make sure that I got everything down right. I actually greatly appreciate the work of most gunwriters and Ken Howell and John Barsness are among the finest I've ever read for honesty and intellectual integrity. It's a treat for me to read good stuff.

Actually, O'Connor's first elk was lost while he was using a .30-06 (I have several of his books and articles) and he did buy a .35 whelen as a result. O'Connor did later lose an elk gut shot with a .270 after his automobile accident. The Elk bedded down on another ridge and O'Connor's hunting partner ran ahead of him shooting at the animal with a revolver causing it to get up and run away. It should be noted that J'OC never said a .270 or 06 were "ideal" elk rounds, but that they were plenty adequate and that the average elk hunter is better off with a gun he can shoot well than one that scares him.

-Lou

Some things never change . . . . ..

BMT

If he, O'Connor were alive today, I wonder if he would have liked the Accubond or Interbond bullets in say a .270 WSM M70 Classic?
Do you think he would have ever gotten around to hunting with an Ackley?
I can't imagine someone who liked flat shooters and mild recoil as much as he did, not liking a .280 AI with an Accubond bullet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Interesting! It's all conjecture on my part, StrayDog, but I expect he would have appreciated those rounds. Whether he would have found them significantly more useful, though, is even more speculative, given the closeness in caliber (as in the .280 AI).

I sometimes wonder if many of us don't hold to a certain combination (caliber, bullet weight, velocity and so on) regarding the game we hunt simply because it has done so well and we wonder where the limits actually are, given its past and very successful performance. Rifles and cartridges become friends, in a way...

In view of the fact that Ackley and Occonor were in their hayday at the same time, and JOC makes little mention of them I think speaks for itself.
He did use the 7mm rem and the 300 wby some, and the 338 win mag.

As Ranch13 stated, it's quite unlikely JO'C would have been unaware of Ackley's work. What's more likely, in my opinion, is that O'Connor thought the improvements less necessary or vital to the hunter than the student of ballistics.

257Bob - read all the Ruark you can get ahold of. I've found it best not to try and figure out what he might be saying but rather to just listen to what he is actually saying. He knew his topics, especially when it came to politics.

.257Bob--Try "Something of Value"...makes Uhuru look tame. one of the best books ever written about Mau-Mau, IMHO.

I think O'Connor's elk were just poorly educated and didn't realize they needed something above .30 to kill them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Steve NO, read something of value, uhuru, the old man and the boy - part one and two, horn of the hunter, use enough gun, and recently, a collection of his short stories. have gone through most of hemingways stuff too. liked "for whom the bell tolls" most but also enjoyed green hills of africa and others.

JOC also really like the 300 Weatherby but that probably had something to do with the fact that he liked Roy Weatherby also.

I have read another outdoor writer who surmised that in JOC's day, just a generation ago, the elk acted differently. That is, elk were actually found out in meadows and open areas during daylight much more frequently than now because the forty or fifty years or so since have brought about an exponential increase in hunting pressure. His reasoning thus went that this was more favorable to cartridges like the .270 where an animal could be watched, taken in the open away from the timber when the angle was right and watched as it fell, hitting it again as was necessary.
I don't know if this has any merit or not. Maybe Ranch13 or others can shed some light on this.

George

I don't believe the elk act that much different. They do get a lot more pressure before the rifle season opens now. ATV's and hikers all summer, depending on which area there's 30-45 days of constant bombardment of camo clad folks carrying the latest greatest archery gear , and which ever set of cow calls/ bugles/grunt tubes and cover scents available. Followed immediately by about 10-15 days of deer hunters.
Elk have always been somewhat shy, and hole up with much pressure. Back in the good ol days archery season was the 15 days preceeding the 1st day of season, and elk and deer season run the same time.
We also were told to stay the hell out of the elk country before season opened,and don't leave camp before you could see to shoot.
Now much of the advice leans to preseason scouting, using the latest greatest led lights to find your way after you leave the comfort of your vehicle hours legal shooting light.
Elk don't got headlights and they tend to notice people do.

Jack used the Western 139 grain open point for most of his hunting. He regarded this bullet highly.
Mike.