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Tell me about the 38-40. Anybody make one? Can a 30-30 be made to work with it?

Nope.
It is actually a 40 caliber. A pain in the butt to reload as the cases are so thin and due to the bottle neck you can't use carbide dies. A 30-30 is entirely different, a 38-40 is a necked down 44-40.
The 25-20,32-20,38-40 & 44-40 were all made for the "short" action Model 1892 Winchester.
The 25-35,30-30,32 Special, 32-40 and 38-55 were all made for the "long" action 1894 Winchester.

Not a practical project and not a very good cartridge. A modern 45 Colt (so called Long Colt) or 44 Magnum carbine in a Winchester or Marlin can be loaded to any power level from "pooper" to "crusher" and the rifle/carbine would be far cheaper than an original "good shooter" 38-40.

Mike Venturino has written about the 38-40 in Rifle and Handloader magazines. It's one of those "why did they ever make it in the first place cartridges".

Good shootin'

The .38 W.C.F. first appeared in Winchester's 1879 catalog.
The 38-40 moniker was given by U.M.C. / Marlin.

As BossLady indicated, it is really a .40 caliber and is not related to the 30-30 at all. Perhaps they felt that the 40-40 would be too easily confused with the 44-40 (?).

Personally, I have found it ok for reloading and can be done easily enough......if one pays attention to detail (important!). The thinner case neck wall is more prone to damage than straight walled cartridges if one does not align it properly in the reloading dies.

Nostalgia is what has kept the 38-40 alive and well....especially if one has a vintage 1873 Winchester in that chambering and likes to make it talk once again.....

w30wcf

My first centerfire handgun was a Colt SAA in .38-40. I packed it all the way through high school and into college. I still have a special place for the caliber. Sometimes "practical" really doesn't have much relevance.

Tom

I can't imagine MAKING a .38-40 in this day and age. But SHOOTING one is fine! They are a little touchy to reload, but if you go a little slower and gentler than usual, it isn't any big deal. They are as accurate as any similar cartridge IF you work up a load your gun likes.

For some reason this caliber was very popular as a handgun ctg. in the very earliest decades of the 20th century. It was the most popular ctg. in the Colt Bisley and very popular in the Colt New Service DAs of the same period, and the SAA. Factory ballistics in a handgun were similar to the present .40 S&W.

I had a 4 1/2" New Service and noticed that it made one hell of a CRACK in that short barrel but was very accurate if you could stand the blast (this was before anybody even THOUGHT of wearing ear protection--HUH, WHAT'S THAT YOU SAY???).

Had a Colt SSA in .38-40 as well as a M92 Winchester more years
ago than I would like to remember. I got rid of the M92 when I
started to get head separations with the Hi-Velocity loads. I
was told later that the vertical locking bars were probably worn.
I should have looked into replacing or at least getting it looked at to tighten them up so the action would not be so 'springy'(?). I fired the Colt several times at night in the
'wilderness' and it really threw out a pretty impressive ball of
fire. This was probably because it had slower burning powder to
make the cartridge more efficient in the rifle. (Don't use
stiff loads in a SAA Colt.)

One of my favorite calibers, it can be purchased in new
Colts single actions and in levers by Uberti.
Its a fine short range deer round in Win 92's or Marlin 94's.
Reloading is no more difficult than others if you pay attention.
My most accurate rifle in 38-40 is a Navy Arms [Rossi]. Soda cans at 100 yards are easy targets from a rest.
Plan on reloading if used for hunting as manuals only show loads safe for 73's which equal a 40S&W for energy.

Surprised no one mentioned the Marlin 93's.
In the 50's the 38-40 was a very well used cartrdige in the deer woods of PA. This was before everyone thought that deer wore kevlar arnor and required a magnum to kill them.Many were even taken with 32-20's

I've taken deer with my Win. M92 in 38-40. Pretty fair deer gun, if you keep the ranges reasonable for the cartridge.

Just handled a new Taylor's (Uberti) SAA Smoke Wagon today in 38-40. Probably gonna have to have me one? ;O)

Got the new Uberti, fired it yesterday. 15 yards, with 180gr WW factory ammo: 3 shots within a 1-1/4" inch group, last two opened the group to 3". Most likely me?

Shoots a tad to the left with that ammo, but dead-on elevation wise at 15 yards, barely showing the front blade in the frame groove.

The M92 Win. shoots that same ammo very well.

Not to joke,but do you really mean 15 yards, or are we talking a handgun?

Fairly well explained in my earlier post, just above the one you reference.

Sorry, did not know what a Smoke Wagon was. I'm not a SASS shooter anymore

Taylor calls some versions of their "tinkered" Uberti SAAs, Smoke Wagons. Fortunately, they do not stamp that crap on the pistol itself. Basically just a Cattleman, with some extry attention to the action and cosmetics.

Very slick action, especially the trigger pull. I'm happy with it, both in appearance and function.

I've got a Ruger Vaquero convertible in 38-40/40S&W, an older Marlin Carbine, and a Cimmaron '73 repro. They are absolutely fun to shoot and so far, Knock wood, I haven't had any issues reloading this round. I picked up about 4 boxes of ammo at the gun show and have been shooting this brass for about a year now. Probably on the third round of reloading.

Bart

Bought several boxes of fairly new WW 38-40 ammo some years ago (around $22 per box then), then got another full box that a buddy picked up at an auction and sold me for $15, two years ago. All 180gr soft points.

That last one is in the old yellow, red and blue Western X box, but both box and ammo is still like new.

Also have about a dozen or so original WRA headstamp 38 WCF cartridges that more or less came with the M92 some years ago. They're lead bullet loads, no idea what the bullet weight is?

Have dies, probably won't need to load anything anytime soon, unless I go on a binge with the Uberti? ;O)

I sometimes hunt deer with the M92, but no reason to shoot the sock's off'n it, already know how well it shoots.

My 1892 38-40 was made in 1910. Bore is shiny with minor, superficial pitting. It shoots clover leaf groups at 20 yds. with 180 gr cast bullets and Clays powder. It, in fact, out shot my new Marlin 1894 CB in .45 LC. This '92 came with the shotgun type butt stock.

38-40 can be reloaded on a Dillon or progressive press if one is careful and bells the cases on the powder drop stage. The bullets will slide right in. If not, a bullet catching the case lip will end up with a crushed case on the bullet seating stroke.

DF

One of my favorites, I had a early 90's SAA 4 3/4" that was a beauty. I also had my favorite gun of all time in 38 WCF (38-40 is for those Marlins ) my rifle was a 1912 vintage 92 Winchester "Baby" SRC 14" barrel. I took deer at short range with it and it was great at short range. I had to sell it years ago when I was a newlywed and needed money...

LBP,

You're so right. My bad. It definitely IS a .38WCF. That's exactly what's stamped on the barrel.

Guess I've been contaminated by Marlins, etc. too long. Or, I could rationalize and say I was addressing that crowd...

Probably just need to own up...

HA!

DF

.

As others have stated, the 38 WCF is somewhere between marginal and useless. So why did Winchester ever design that caliber? Not because it was needed but to sell guns. New calibers always sell guns. Just look at some of the modern day "useless" calibers, the Winchester WSM's most of which are already obsolete. Remington also made several short fat calibers, does anyone remember any of those now? The 38 WCF enjoyed some popularity or Winchester would not have chambered it in rifles for 50 years. They, the 38 WCF and 44 WCF, are great fun to shoot and that in it's self is all the reason that I need to use them.

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That was a weird post... bot hack I assume?

Anyway, I have a pretty cool Marlin 1894 in 38-40 (38W as stamped on the barrel). It's not original but the serial number is from 1895 and it is still as solid as a rock and shoots great!

I do not know much about it, maybe someone here does. I assume a 120 year old gun is bound to have some repairs; the butt stock has been replaced, the receiver top has been drilled to match 336 bases, and it has a 20" octagon barrel. Initially, I figured this was cut and re-crowned and the sight and mag tube cap had been moved back but I have seen others that look like this so I'm not sure.

I have been shooting it to make some brass, I have everything I need to reload but haven't tumbled the first piece of brass. Any insight would be great.

Thanks

From wikipedia..."Ballistically the .40 S&W is almost identical to the .38-40 Winchester introduced in 1874, as they share the same bullet diameter and bullet weight, and have similar muzzle velocities.[19]"...so I guess the round is relevant to some. I find it easy to reload and haven't crushed a case with a single stage press.

One of my SAA's is a 38-40, I keep looking for that M92 that someone prices low because of that odd-ball cartridge so I can snatch it up.

I have a 1906 Colt SAA and a similar aged Marlin 94 in the 38-40. Great cartridge for what it was designed for. My father killed a lot of PA whitetails with one. I found my 94 tucked back in a closet of a neighbor that was selling a lot of his collection . I had the barrel relined and made new wood for it, and gave it some color with some cold blue. The Colt is nickle plated, not too bad of shape. However back in the era it was made, Colt had a bunch or 41 caliber barrels that they stuck on them and I ended up with one.
I shoot .403 cast bullets in it as that is the biggest it will chamber in the 38-40 cylinder.It shoots tad high and a little to the left at 15 yards,but the Marlin 94 will shoot about 3-4 " groups at 100yards.

It is hard to find bullets for it as a 40S&W does not have a cannelure. I buy mine from Dardas Cast bullets and he will size to the dimension you need within reason. New barrels will probably slug to be . 401. Grafs & Sons has brass every once in awhile for the 38- 40. I load 16 gr of 2400 in both of mine. Lee has dies for them.

Quite some time ago, Ruger did a production run of their revolvers and sold them thru Buckeye Sports in Ohio.Ever once in awhile you can find one at gun shows.

I have a marlin in 38-40 and also picked up a Ruger Vaquero combo with a 40 S&W cylinder and a 38-40 cylinder. the Vaquero is a fun little pistol. I bought a bag of 500 cast bullets for the 38-40 at a gun show in Billings MT and still have a couple hundred left.

Old thread.

Upgraded my earlier post with new photo. Photobucket sucks.


My 1892 38-40 was made in 1910. Bore is shiny with minor, superficial pitting. It shoots clover leaf groups at 20 yds. with 180 gr cast bullets and Clays powder. It, in fact, out shot my new Marlin 1894 CB in .45 LC. This '92 came with the shotgun type butt stock.

38-40 can be reloaded on a Dillon or progressive press if one is careful and bells the cases on the powder drop stage. The bullets will slide right in. If not, a bullet catching the case lip will end up with a crushed case on the bullet seating stroke.

DF

I own a few, all handguns. A Ruger Buckeye 38 WCF/10mm, a custom 5 1/2" gun built on an old Flattop Ruger 357 and this custom that began life as a 357 Mag M28-2.

"However back in the era it was made, Colt had a bunch or 41 caliber barrels that they stuck on them and I ended up with one."

All 1st generation SAA Colts in 38-40 and 41 Colt had the same bbls stamped "41" on the bottom. The bore diameters are the same and they used the same bbls for both calibers.

I think I understand .What would that bore diameter be then? My relined Marlin is .401. I need to check that stamping then.I did slug that barrel two years ago,but presently forget what it was.

The case head separations in such cases comes from "oversizing", not overfiring, except in some extreme situations. When sizing the brass be sure not to set the dies on the shellholder, Back it off enough that you are primarily sizing the neck enough to hold the new bullet. Brass will last much longer this way and of course, moderate loads should be used.
Rick

So I snuck up on this buck that was napping and carefully laid my old '73 Winchester in 38-40 on him and snapped a pic before he woke up because I knew the 38-40 bullet would just bounce off if I shot him.

Yep,my father hunted Pa whitetails for about 50 years with a 38-40 and heck of a lot of them fell to it. I"d use mine for deer here in CO,but they are not legal

To listen to some, you would wonder how people fed themselves before smokeless powder. Many deer were killed with the 25 20, 32 20, 38 40 and 44 40. Hunting was a skill that was paired with shooting.

Here's my 1894 (DOM 1904) in 38-40. Not much finish left on it but the bore is pristine and the action is tight. It is a fun rifle to shoot. And, a 24 inch barrel on a Marlin 1894! Whoodathunk!


The only factory loads I found used lead bullets so I bought some Berry's 180 grain jacketed Hybrid Hollow points and loaded them up. Accuracy is good. I haven't tried them on game yet. I should think they would be an improvement over the all-lead bullets.



As for loading, I crushed a few cases and then I got out the instructions. Oh! That's what the expander is for...…. Now, reloading is no problem. - T.S.

38-40 you say? I can't get enough of them...

WOW!!!!!

Wow is right!!!

Me too....(No...the "other" me too...)-

What beauties!!!!!!

I'm guessing I'm one of the few people born in the later half of the 20th century that can say the 38 wcf was the first centerfire I shot.

I deer hunted with one (a Model 92) as a yute.. never got a deer but I did get my first rifle-shot fox squirrel with it. It was more than enough gun.

And it seals the chamber so much better with low pressure loads than most modern "straight" cartridges.

An enjoyable round all around.