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77 gr TMK and XBR 8208 were made for each other. In AR or bolt actions, from 2.255 to 2.32". It seems to like to be run warm.

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Is there a factory-like 223 magazine for longer OAL, more then 2.25?

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I was lucky to snag a Browning Low Wall .223 a few months ago pre-Covid. Truly mint condition (I swear unfired), and with 1-12" twist. Topped with a basic Leupold 3-9, it rose to Most Favored Status after the first couple range sessions before I got snared by the "lockdown" here in my neck of the woods. On a whim I tried the 40 grain Berger (flat base varmint, tangent ogive, hollowpoint), 28 grains CFE-223, Lapua brass/CCI SR primers. Instead of the 3/4 - 1 MOA returned by other 50-53 grain loads built with Sierras, this load returns a consistent 1/2-5/8 MOA on demand. (Loading of cartridges for this gun is done with LE Wilson dies which admittedly may contribute to the sterling accuracy of this straight-out-of-the-box single shot.)

Velocity is right at 3500fps. I like shooting the rifle and this load so much that I have to control myself.


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Sounds like you have a keeper gnoahhh. I'm a big fan of the Browning Low Wall and will own another one some day.


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Originally Posted by Taco2fiddy7
Is there a factory-like 223 magazine for longer OAL, more then 2.25?


ASC stainless and c-products stainless both allow longer seating 2.3" +/-

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Just starting loading for my Mossberg MVP and looking good.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

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Originally Posted by boomer68
Just starting loading for my Mossberg MVP and looking good.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Nice little 3 shot group. Keep them all looking like that and you'll know for sure that you have something. I'd also shoot 10 shots, to confirm the load, once you think you are getting close...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Down here you'll see groups like that, that the local Methhead shoot a 3 shot group like that at 10 yds with a scope and then claim its a ten shot group at 100 yds... when someone claims that no big deal, the next time they'll claim that they shot it at 200 yds..

I've seen guys at the range showing everyone a group like that and claim they shot it with their SKS or AK and claim it to be 10 shots at 100 to 150 yds....

don't know who they are trying to impress, but somehow enough of them seem to feel the need...

but Boomer.. nice group...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

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Originally Posted by Seafire
Down here you'll see groups like that, that the local Methhead shoot a 3 shot group like that at 10 yds with a scope and then claim its a ten shot group at 100 yds... when someone claims that no big deal, the next time they'll claim that they shot it at 200 yds..

I've seen guys at the range showing everyone a group like that and claim they shot it with their SKS or AK and claim it to be 10 shots at 100 to 150 yds....

don't know who they are trying to impress, but somehow enough of them seem to feel the need...

but Boomer.. nice group...


If boomer says he shot it at a 100 yards, i have no reason to doubt it. We see a lot of funny chidt at the range. No doubt about that at all. I could tell you stories. Even when we are shooting competition, we have had some funny chidt happen with new club members. One incident i remember very clearly was when we were shooting a centerfire shoot and a couple new members were there getting sighted in. They asked if they could shoot while we were having our shoot and being nice guys, we said sure, until the mo fos started shooting my competition target:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Those guys with their AR's damn near got kicked out. Along with their negligent discharge that landed 3 feet in front of the benches!!!! Then a couple weeks ago, I was shooting my AR15 with irons sights. There was a new member there with her boyfriend. They were both very nice people. Glad to meet them. They had questions about our club and I talked to them for a while. A couple of my friends were also there. What was funny about the new people was the girlfriend was giving the boyfriend schidt about me out shooting him with my irons sights. This younger guy (in his late 20's very early 30's) seemed offended, as he was a marine and "he knew how to shoot". His rifle just wasn't cooperating. He made the comment that if his "sniper" buddy was there, he would give me a run for my money. I didn't realize the girlfriend had been giving him chit about his shooting until about 20 minutes and a few targets in. They were 2 benches to my left. Had one of my friends between us at the other bench. Anyway, I was pretty focused on making good hits on the x ring with irons, but when I realized what the grilfriend and boyfriend were saying, I had to get a good laugh out of it. I told my buddy I hope his AR shot as well as mine did. He's a retired airborne ranger. I don't think those guys did as much shooting as other branches of the military do. As for guys shooting 10 yards and saying they shot at 100 yards, I don't know if guys do that at my club because we set up targets at 100 yards on our range. If they are wanting to shoot 10 yards, then maybe they can go to the pistol range. I figure if a guy has to lie about his shooting abilities and do something shady like you are suggesting, he will suffer from karma in the worst way imaginable... Oh, heres a target from that day when I was shooting my AR15 with irons:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Since this is my thread and that is a 223 rem load, I'll share that data with you guys. I've been using this particular load for quite some time now. I guess since I started shooting AR's, which hasn't really been too long. For some reason, this Noveske really likes these 69gr sierra match kings. Here's one of the first groups I shot with this rifle, back when It was wearing a scope:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The thing I really like abou this load is it has proven itself in a few different rifles. Even a couple bolt actions. Here are a couple more AR's that love it:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

And then recently with the same exact load:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

So for this thread, it seems fitting that I show off that load. Its a good one. It has proven itself to be very consistent shooting in at least 5 different rifles...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by boomer68
Just starting loading for my Mossberg MVP and looking good.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Nice group. What load are you running in the MVP?

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Originally Posted by Rickshaw


Nice group. What load are you running in the MVP?



This was a 55gr Hornady V-Max with H335 and BR4 primers.

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Originally Posted by boomer68
Originally Posted by Rickshaw


Nice group. What load are you running in the MVP?



This was a 55gr Hornady V-Max with H335 and BR4 primers.




Thats a good combo.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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BSA, I wasn't suggesting Boomer was an exaggerator...I was more talking about some of the local clowns you see on our local range, which is one of the nicest on the entire west coast...

Just an example of the methheads and trailer trash down this way...

I went over to the range this afternoon, went up and looked at the crowds on all three ranges...

I figured it was easier and safer to just come back tomorrow morning,,

with this CV crap, they have only been open on the weekend, and the crowds have been large
and not many of them being overly safe.. as a military medic, who has done a lot of range medical support, the more ARs you have with users were never military trained for safe firearm handling, the bigger chance you have for problems to happen...


"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC

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Originally Posted by Seafire
BSA, I wasn't suggesting Boomer was an exaggerator...I was more talking about some of the local clowns you see on our local range, which is one of the nicest on the entire west coast...

Just an example of the methheads and trailer trash down this way...

I went over to the range this afternoon, went up and looked at the crowds on all three ranges...

I figured it was easier and safer to just come back tomorrow morning,,

with this CV crap, they have only been open on the weekend, and the crowds have been large
and not many of them being overly safe.. as a military medic, who has done a lot of range medical support, the more ARs you have with users were never military trained for safe firearm handling, the bigger chance you have for problems to happen...


I totally agree buddy. I see a lot of that chidt out in the national forest pits. My clubs range is for members only, so a lot of that kind of bs is kept to a minimum. The locked gate keeps a lot of the honest people out, but we occasionally get people sneaking in and causing havoc. One of my biggest pet peeves is to be out in the nf or blm pits and have a car load of meth heads roll up and start unloading all their ar's. Generally those people are doing mag dumps and not focused on shooting any kind of target/group, except for an old tv they brought out to shoot at. Thanks for clarifying.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by Prwlr
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Well all right, they do over penetrate on cockroaches, LOL!


Have you seen TEXAS cockroaches? laugh laugh

26.5 grains of TAC under 50 grain NBT for 3300 fps from Rem ADL 22" barrell, Federal case , Federal 205M, goes into 6's.



Pretty much my same load - 26.5 grains of TAC with a 50 grain VMax, with Tulammo SRM primers for 3300 fps in a 26" barrel.

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Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Seafire
Down here you'll see groups like that, that the local Methhead shoot a 3 shot group like that at 10 yds with a scope and then claim its a ten shot group at 100 yds... when someone claims that no big deal, the next time they'll claim that they shot it at 200 yds..

I've seen guys at the range showing everyone a group like that and claim they shot it with their SKS or AK and claim it to be 10 shots at 100 to 150 yds....

don't know who they are trying to impress, but somehow enough of them seem to feel the need...

but Boomer.. nice group...


If boomer says he shot it at a 100 yards, i have no reason to doubt it. We see a lot of funny chidt at the range. No doubt about that at all. I could tell you stories. Even when we are shooting competition, we have had some funny chidt happen with new club members. One incident i remember very clearly was when we were shooting a centerfire shoot and a couple new members were there getting sighted in. They asked if they could shoot while we were having our shoot and being nice guys, we said sure, until the mo fos started shooting my competition target:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Those guys with their AR's damn near got kicked out. Along with their negligent discharge that landed 3 feet in front of the benches!!!! Then a couple weeks ago, I was shooting my AR15 with irons sights. There was a new member there with her boyfriend. They were both very nice people. Glad to meet them. They had questions about our club and I talked to them for a while. A couple of my friends were also there. What was funny about the new people was the girlfriend was giving the boyfriend schidt about me out shooting him with my irons sights. This younger guy (in his late 20's very early 30's) seemed offended, as he was a marine and "he knew how to shoot". His rifle just wasn't cooperating. He made the comment that if his "sniper" buddy was there, he would give me a run for my money. I didn't realize the girlfriend had been giving him chit about his shooting until about 20 minutes and a few targets in. They were 2 benches to my left. Had one of my friends between us at the other bench. Anyway, I was pretty focused on making good hits on the x ring with irons, but when I realized what the grilfriend and boyfriend were saying, I had to get a good laugh out of it. I told my buddy I hope his AR shot as well as mine did. He's a retired airborne ranger. I don't think those guys did as much shooting as other branches of the military do. As for guys shooting 10 yards and saying they shot at 100 yards, I don't know if guys do that at my club because we set up targets at 100 yards on our range. If they are wanting to shoot 10 yards, then maybe they can go to the pistol range. I figure if a guy has to lie about his shooting abilities and do something shady like you are suggesting, he will suffer from karma in the worst way imaginable... Oh, heres a target from that day when I was shooting my AR15 with irons:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Since this is my thread and that is a 223 rem load, I'll share that data with you guys. I've been using this particular load for quite some time now. I guess since I started shooting AR's, which hasn't really been too long. For some reason, this Noveske really likes these 69gr sierra match kings. Here's one of the first groups I shot with this rifle, back when It was wearing a scope:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The thing I really like abou this load is it has proven itself in a few different rifles. Even a couple bolt actions. Here are a couple more AR's that love it:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

And then recently with the same exact load:
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

So for this thread, it seems fitting that I show off that load. Its a good one. It has proven itself to be very consistent shooting in at least 5 different rifles...



Those are some nice patterns.............

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Originally Posted by sgtsmmiii
Originally Posted by Prwlr
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
Well all right, they do over penetrate on cockroaches, LOL!


Have you seen TEXAS cockroaches? laugh laugh

26.5 grains of TAC under 50 grain NBT for 3300 fps from Rem ADL 22" barrell, Federal case , Federal 205M, goes into 6's.



Pretty much my same load - 26.5 grains of TAC with a 50 grain VMax, with Tulammo SRM primers for 3300 fps in a 26" barrel.


I shoot 27.5 gr behind 52-55gr bullets out of 5.56 chambers.

Typically Rem brass and they prefer S&B primer over the CCI 450's.


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Great thread guys! Thanks for sharing some very useful information. I’ve owned dozens throughout the years and just couldn’t justify it at the time. I’ve always liked the rifle since, as a child in the ‘70’s, I grew up with it so to speak. A few years back I decided that I wanted a few AR’s, mostly for the practical applications that the AR platform was designed for but also because it holds a nostalgic place in my heart. I’ve been shooting 77 TMK’s from my 11.5” 1-7. I had read that the heavier bullets have a longer “dwell” thereby getting better velocity than the lighter bullets, all that notwithstanding the twist rate and stabilization requirements. I’ll be getting back surgery this fall and plan on using reloading as a way to stay busy and productive so I’ll actually test that theory during my recovery. In the meantime I just got my BCA upper in 7.62x39 and I’m blown away at the potential accuracy I’m seeing with Wolf HP and FMJ. I am having the usual light primer strikes on the Wolf FMJ but not with the Wolf HP. I had read that BCA uses the extended firing pin in their 7.62x39 BCG’s but it ain’t working. I emailed them yesterday and I’m waiting for their response. They processed and shipped my order in less than 24 hours and 6 days later it arrived. It was well put together with everything tight. I threw a cheap Truglo red dot and after 3 or 4 rounds I was shooting 3 shot triangular shaped groups that were right at or slightly under 1”. I’ll be putting a better optic on it but so far I’m extremely impressed by BCA. We’ll see how they advise me to proceed on the firing pin deal but that’s small potatoes compared to the quality, price and customer service....thus far.

I was so pleased with BCA that I ordered a 20” .308 upper from them two days ago and it shipped yesterday. They suddenly had the 7.62x39 upper in stock so I bought it. The next day they were sold out. When I saw they had the 20” .308 upper in stock I jumped on it. Later that day it showed they were sold out. They’re selling them as fast as they can produce them.

PS.....the 7.62x39 has the side charging handle like its arch nemesis the AK47 😁 and I’m pleased with my choice for that caliber. It’s the enemy’s cartridge, in an American designed and American built rifle that retains the side charging handle of its nemesis. I asked BCA what their bore diameter was and it’s .311 so that makes buying cases of cheap ammo a no brainer.


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1:12 should handle a 63 gr bullet fine

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Just picked up some 55 grain Sierra Blitzkings and Vihtovouri N135 for my Rock River Arms AR and S&W Sport. Both have a 1 in 9 twist. Looking for some suggestions for this powder/bullet combo if anyone has used it?

Thanks.

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