Home Forums Miscellaneous Topics Christ at the Campfire The Beginning

Ringman,
There could be comets and things because when he set the earth and the universe in motion, things like comets and meteorites would have also begun their travels regardless of the age of the earth. If he created an old earth, it would have the appearance of being 4.5 billion years old but it could be much younger than that. Comets and river deltas are insignificant compared to idea of the old, weathered earth. This(the aging of the earth) could have all taken place in the first day of creation when it says on the first day, "God created the heavens and the earth". Then the rest of the things MK4 mentioned could have taken place - the angels getting sent to earth and the destruction of the earth.

Also, I see no reason to believe that a flood would destroy all evidence of anything else ever happening. Everything is impossible until it is done. Many years from now I am sure scientists will have a whole new outlook on things that were thought impossible in our time. Such as cars, flight, and computers. Nathan

Who cares? If it was important, we would know.........

Nathan,

In 1997 it rained about an inch a day for two months here in Grants Pass. I asked a fellow who has three doctorates what what would happen if it rained an inch an hour for two weeks. I don't know why I picked those numbers, but I did and he responded, "Entire mountain ranges would be eroded away. Rocks and everything." The Bible tells us about a flood which lasted, uninterupted, for forty days and nights and then continued for another 150 days. Since fossils are rocks, they would have eroded into oblivion.

I agree with you about God creating a mature universe with the appearance of age. Afterall, how old did Adam and Eve look. How about the tomato, potato, and orange they ate. The plants had the appearance of a full growing season or seasons.

Ringman,

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think the earth was created in six literal days, and that the flood of Noah's day is the reason the earth looks "old". Other theories just don't seem to "hold water".

So, what is a literal day? Is it a 24 hr. period of time or is it longer?

In Psalms 90:4, we see a comment from Moses concerning this time line, �For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.� Again we see this again in 2 Peter 3:8 �But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.�

Is this a key to understanding certain references and their timelines? Could it be that in some scriptures, when a day is mentioned, its actual meaning is 1,000 years? Would this apply to Genesis?

One thing is for certain� God uses patterns. We have a 6-day workweek and we rest on the seventh. God created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. Man is now on his sixth day (6,000 yrs.) on the earth since Adam. We are fast approaching the seventh....the Millenial Reign.

Mk4,



Why even ask? Why do ou want it other than a solar day? God established what a day is with the light and dark cycle. Afterall, He named it. For someone who accepts the Scripture for What It says, there is no problem.

I wonder if your are serious or just want to stir something. Like Rush Limbaugh say, "Words mean things.". The Scripture in Psalms teaches us about God being outside the bounds of time. The One from Peter informs us about God's patients. Neither comunicate a thing about creation; only the Creator.

Jesus teaches unless one is converted and becomes like a child, they can not enter the kingdom of God. Read the First Chapter of the Bible to a ten or twelve year old, who has not been brainwashed to believe God's Word does not mean what It says, and see what they learn. Suggesting this used to irratate my pastor when I was a new Christian.

Mk4,

Sure! Good point about the 6 days work and a day of rest. I also agree that we are near the end of day six, and heading for the sabbath of rest.

I had some folks tell me that the Lord did not make the earth in 6 literal 24 hour days, because a day with the Lord is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. My question to them was then this: How old was Methuselah? If one day equals a thousand years, he would have been 365,000 years old for every year that is mentioned in the Bible. So that makes him 365,000 X 969 = 353,685,000 years old. Most skeptics think it was impossible for anyone to live to near a thousand years old. how about 353.7 million? I told them to be consistent in their dates.

If there was a pre-adamic world, and I believe that there is ample evidence for it in the Bible, then the Earth itself could be older than 6,000 years, recreated in Genesis 1:3. How much older? No-one knows, and neither do the scientists. Their best guesses usually have a built in admittance to an error of 50-100%. Like the earth came into existence 14-35 billion years ago. They could be out by 21 billion years by their own admission. That is a substantial error, in my limited intellect.

Any way, this is a fun post, and so far, praise the Lord, no-one has got riled up! Amen!

Shootist,

Thanks.

In answering your questions (a) through (d), I�d have to say, yes, yes, probably and I don�t know. There�s nothing clear in the scriptures to determine who Jeremiah was referring to in 4:26. Since there is no man, and the Lord�s anger is fierce (also vs. 26) and the angels have rebelled against the father�..who else would it be?

I believe the dinosaurs all but disappeared in the Ice Age. Had they been on the earth during the time of Adam, he would�ve named them as well would he not (Gen. 2:20)? However, I doubt that Adam had the brontosaurus, pterodactyl or t-rex on the animal roster. <grin> We certainly don�t see any on Noah�s ark.

As to the age of Adam and others that lived in that time period, the earth they lived in looked NOTHING like what we live in today. First of all, there was a water atmosphere about the earth and it shielded not only the sun but the suns ultra-violet rays from the earth giving very long life to the inhabitants. If you recall in Gen 2:5 �And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth.� Never rained�in the beautiful, lush garden of Eden? So, how were the plants watered?

The answer from Creation Scientists is that the earth was watered from a subterranean source. In other words from underneath the surface� along with the (Gen. 2:6) mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.� The earth was perfect in every way�until the day of Noah.

My apologies for being misleading on this post. The answer is that there are applications for both. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The study of the Pre-Adamite flood gives amazing insights into the judgement of God against Lucifer, and Satan's hatred for mankind, as God's creation.

Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep..........

Jer 4:23-26

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. KJV

See that the earth that Moses told of in Genesis 1:2 is the same earth that Jerimiah sees in 4:23 : without form and void.

Jerimiah's earth was in terrible upheaval and there was no light in the heavens. It contained mountains that trembled and hills that moved. All men were gone and cities destroyed. Even the birds and all vegetation were no more. And this total devastation occurs due to God's fierce anger.

Jerimiah is obviously not describing the the flood of Noah, which was a time that God partially destroyed society. There were eight of mankind, birds, all manner of animals, and vegetation saved from that deluge, and the light was never removed from the heavens. In Scripture all instances of the sun being obsured and bringing darkness, and floods, arise from God's judgement.

When we find the earth in Gen. 1:2, it has been sujected to God's harshest judgement and that is why it is so desolate. The earth was not created void. Isaiah 45:18 tells us that, "He created it not in vain (empty), He formed it to be inhabited....". But there was something He found more repugnant on this earth, than He ever has since. That was Lucifer's rebellion.

To get into that would make this post rediculously long and my sleep rediculously short. Can't have either. Night!

I am jumping in here to just to throw in my two cents. I believe when Paul wrote that time to God ;ie, "a day is a thousand years and a thousand years a day", is a example of the nature of God. He is omnipotent, sovereign, omniscient, infinite, and ubiquitous. We as humans are finite. If you bind the infinite, it is now finite. If it is now finite, how can it be infinite. Therefore....you cannot put God in a box, because once you do he bursts the box.
As for my humble thoughts, about a Pre-Adamic race, I will preface like this. I believe that Ezekiel was seeing the spiritual realm that is all around us. One example is how he described the spirit of God(the holy spirit) moving around like wheels inside of wheels with cherubim around them. I believe this because as with my time in prayer, I know others are listening to my prayers. Satan knows my darkest desires, and plays with my conscience. He knows that because ,( he put it there..yes), it is his job. The bible says he is a roaring lion, looking to steal, kill, and destroy. If his job is to hunt, steal, kill, and destroy....is it not foreseeable that he will use all the information he can get to perform his purpose? We can see it as with Job. Since Satan is not God, he will and must use every tool at his disposal, that is how he works. Satan is the father of lies, and he knows the best lies lay around the truth. He and one third the heavenly host were cast from heaven. The Lake of Fire that is hell is their destruction, as in Revelations. That is how the serpent was used to to bring sin (separation from God) in to the world of man (God's most treasured creation). Because God is God, he knew the end at the beginning. God never does anything flawed, without purpose, and nothing happens outside his will. There by God is perfect because he is God. The unseen realm of the spirit is where we hear and feel God, and it is where Satan and his demons work in. This is transmitted to our hearts and minds, thus the need to direct our prayers and to pray for discernment.
Faith is a funny thing. It is at odds with the world around us. Yet, it is what keeps us going. Faith in God, in ourselves, in the world around us, in that the sun will come up in the mourning. When you place your faith in God, everything will be handled. Even if you don't believe, he has done his will apart from your or my will for this long and will continue to do so. He loves us, made us, and made a way for us to be with him where there will be no more time or worry. HE will answer all my questions one day. The answer he is GOD alone, before time began,he is on his throne, he is God alone. UNbreakable...Unstoppable..Never ending. Always.

Oncewaslost,

I think you have some insight into the reality of God. He sure is infinite, and how can we, the finite, perceive him in infinity? Good question. It was Peter that said the thing about a day with the Lord as a thousand years. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Satan sure does work in the spiritual realm, but I doubt he ever has the time to mess with me as an individual. I am not that important to him. He is not all powerful, he cannot be present everywhere at once, he is not all knowing. He does have a band of devils that do his bidding.

RickyD,

Finally weighed in, huh? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Looks like there are more folks out there than I thought that see the pre-Adamic creation. I think the reference in Jeremiah about the men, could be a future reference. God is going to destroy this planet in the future. This time by fore.

Funny thing about an infinite God. The book he gives us is an infinite book. It can have several applications at the same time. Historical, Practical, Prophetical. Past, Present, Future. The creation scientists do not go along with the Pre-Adamic thing. They think it compromises our belief in creation. It doesn't.

I think that when the Lord destroys the earth in the future, and makes him a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness, it will be the same as the first one, the one before the first destruction in Genesis 1:2. It will be perfect, and perfectly inhabited by people, that are perfect. That blows my mind to even think about. An earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. I spent 30 years arresting the unrighteous, and was never without something to do. Glory! A new earth with no police officers! No need! Living in the presence of Jesus Christ - the righteous. Amen!

amen.

Thanks shootist..I get confused sometimes.

oncewuzlost,

Wait till you get to be as old as me! I wake up confused and it only gets worse. My best time of the day is when I am asleep. I make very few mistakes then.

Mk4,

How do you know that Adam didn't name the dinosaurs? Just because the Bible doesn't specifically mention dinosaurs doesn't mean there weren't any. The same goes for Noah's ark. The Bible doesn't give an exhaustive list of animals aboard the ark because it wasn't necessary to the story. Someone might ask how they would fit dinosaurs on the ark, but consider the fact that the dinosaurs wouldn't have to be old (and therefore very large). It would be much better to have young (thus smaller) ones. Besides, the average size of these "terrible lizards" was about the size of a sheep; in fact, many were almost chicken-sized.

I agree with you in that MOST of the dinosaurs probably did die out in the "ice age". But I would disagree about WHEN the ice age occured. I think it's probable that it happened as a result of the flood. Conditions then would have been harsh, and probably conducive to major ice formation. Also, if the water canopy theory is true, the atmosphere would have been thinner after the flood. Isn't it believed that many of the large dinosaurs took in oxygen through their skin? If this is true they would have strangled once they got too large.

If there had been any dinosaurs at the time of Noah, God would have saved them all.....right? Knowing what we know about dinosaurs, how big of an ark do you think that would have required?

The Ice Age and the Flood are 2 different and distinct events.

Mk4,

The accepted length of a cubit is 18". If that was the length used at Noah's time the arc was 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. In a lecture I heard it could hold 522 double decker railroad cars full of animals. Its length to width ratio was 6:1. That ratio was not used until modern times. Also, there is no record of a ship approaching this size until the last couple of hundred years. Maybe God knew something afterall.

Take a look at Job 38. God began to speak to Job. He talked about springs in the sea, which were not discoverd until late in the twentieth century. But I digress. God spoke about lions, mountain goats, deer, donkeys, wild ox, ostriches, horse, hawk, and eagle. These are animals we're familiar with. God continues and talks about "'Behemoth which I made WITH you. He eats grass like an ox. Behold now, his strength is in his loins, and his power in the muscles of his belly. He bends his tail like a cedar...if a river rages, he is not alarmed."

What animal have you seen a picture of that can bend its tail like a cedar. ItS power is in its belly to hold up that huge tail. It is not concerned about a raging river because it is so huge. Sounds like a sauropod dinosaur to me.

Consider also the Isiah 30:6.

"...from where the lioness and lion, viper and flying serpent, they carry their riches on the backs of young donkeys and their treasures on camels' humps...."

"Everyone" knew the flying serpent was mythalogical until a fossil of a winged serpant was found in Sourthen Mexico about twenty years ago.

You need to trust in the Lord's Word.

Is carbon dating credible???

I wonder...............

I doubt it. All scientist know is how carbon 14 breaks down since they have been looking at it. How about before the catastrophe of the flood, in a different environment where it never rained, and the thing with the ozone layer.

And it still is not precise. I have heard instances of Carbon 14 dating where a live mollusk was dated as having been dead for over a thousand years. Pretty acuurate! But that may have been an old devil's tale -- just like evolution.