Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders What "traditional" ML?

Here in MS we have been able to shoot single shot CF rifles for years during our primitive weapon season. Last year I pulled my Knight back out and really enjoyed taking a couple of does with it. I brought home a buddy's "old school" ML to clean and my son fell in love with it. He is 11 y/o has taken many deer with a rifle. This year he wants to take one with black powder. He doesn't really want to take my Knight. He really wants a traditional looking ML.

My buddy's rifle has no marking other than "50 caliber" on it. It's a carbine length with double triggers. (set trigger) The wood is realy good looking and it takes #11 caps. The buttstock has a rubber recoil pad. I've looked and looked and can't ID it or find one just like it online. Any ideas on where to get a rifle close to what I described?

Most important features are he likes the carbine length and the set trigger.

Thanks
Chris

Sounds like any number of the Italian imports.

You can find a used T/C Renegade or Renegade Hunter in .50 caliber for under $150. I know; I just saw one in a local shop yesterday.

Fine rifles, finer customer service.

.50 is an excellent caliber to go with; components are everywhere, cheap, and it has plenty enough power.

About 70-90 grains of FFg under a patched .490" ball will do fine for a youngster, and the deer won't like it at all. Alternatively, try the T/C Maxi-Hunter 275 grain HPs, or the 350 grain Lyman Great Plains bullets, assuming he can take a bit more recoil. The extra bullet weight won't hurt, but the RBs will work fine.

if it came from Europe it should have a company mark .
doesn�t mater if its Spanish , English or Italian
If its just marked 50 . It possibly could have had an aftermarket barrel put on it
Would you have a photo of it ?

the TC would be a good choice as would one of the smaller lymans in 50 cal

Not a in-line
No peep site
No shotgun primer

.. Cap or flint, black powder, round balls not power belts.

Spot

It sounds like some version of the Cabela's Sporterized Hawken. Navy Arms imported them too.

Does it look something like this?

Looks JUST like that. Thanks! I'll look on Cabela's site.

Thanks for the help guys. Really am proud that he likes more traditional things...as well as GAP 308s with NF scopes hanging on them .

not if its got doubel set triggers its not .
the cabelas isnothing but a name changed lyman deerstalker , . sold with the cabalas name by investment arms and imported from italy . which i aluded to above
LYMAN DEER STALKER
..

but even then it carries the eroupian proofing marks . not just 50 cal and it will have a serial number
have you had the barrel off and look on the bottom

are you sure it doesnt look like these . neather of which have anything to do with Lymand , investment arms . cabellas or other . pre-dating them considerably .
but the do both have double set triggers and if the barrel had been changed out at some time . would probably just have a 50 cal stamped into the barrel
hunter


or this
Plainsman

I didn't catch the lack of double triggers on the one above. Other than that it looks identical. Took it out of the stock and it has a big "I" and serial number.

Is that a rubber recoil pad on a "traditional" muzzle loader ?

Lord help us.

Oh yeah - I put one on mine too... guilty

well again if it has double sets . its not one of the cabelas or Lymans stalkers unless someone has put double sets on it .

however they are pretty much identical to the two i posted .

dose the letter have anything around it ?

a photo would sure help out

SFC as in E7?

Just a quick comment to say thanks for getting another young hunter started and especially sparking his interest in traditional muzzle loaders.

I have a 14 year old who enthusiastically walks past a Savage 10 ML (starting to wonder why I bought it) and a Black Diamond to pick up a traditional rifle as his first and only choice.

Maybe if this becomes a trend companies like T/C will get back in the game.

The single greatest mistake I have made in my life was selling a .32 Cherokee!

Here is a link to a pretty good sampling of what is available today:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_92_186_191

"Traditional" with rubber recoil pad...well it's more of a traditional looking ML than the Knight and Encore I shoot.

Joe, yep, E-7. HOPE to make 8 this year. I haven't been on much over the last year or so. Between work, the gym, shooting, and keeping the wife happy I don't get on the computer much. I'll slow down and post of some pics of Luke and me. I'm up 2 does and a hog already this bow season. Luke is having a fit to get started bowhunting. Think he needs one more year of gun hunting and growing into a bigger bow before he sits a stand with a bow.

SFCSNOW,
If you're willing to buy used and can take the time to look for it the T/C White Mountain carbine would fit what you're looking for. It had a 21 in. half round half octagon barrel, nice would stock with rubber recoil pad and came only in 50 cal. It was however only available with a single trigger. Here in the northeast it was very popular. It's short and light but the ones I've shot were very accurate with maxi-balls. When I see them for sale on the used market they're usually in the $250.00 range. They were well made, comfortable to carry and accurate. A big plus is they're U.S. made and backed by Thompson Center. If interested in one you'll have to shop the used market.
When I'm at my place in S. Miss. my brother and I always make a point of getting a few days in with traditional ML. I also have a great time with my uncle when he breaks out the s/s Ml shotgun and we swap shots with it on doves.

Checked on Gunbroker and found 2 of the white mountain carbines. Type in Thompson Center White Mountain Carbine. Even in you're not interested in buying the two listed have some good pictures so you'll know what they look like.

It's just an InvestArms carbine. They make the Lyman Deer Stalker too. Some varations have set triggers and some don,t.

They are good guns and the recoil pad is useful.

I don't see T/C getting back in the game. Serious traditionalist want an authentic gun (so the T/C is out)and everyone else wants to be able to hit their game at 200 yards.

Why can't you hit game at 200 with a traditional? Just asking. The bullet doesn't care what the platform looks like. All kinds of twists are available, you CAN mount a scope if your eyes are old and feeble like mine. Hitting stuff at 200 is not hard.

I haven't seen to many traditional rifles that will shoot sub-2" groups at 200 yards but I've only been at this since 1976.

The lock time for a traditional rifle is very slow compared to a modern rifle.

If you're gonna mount a scope then you are no longer traditional

i cant recall of hand but IA is eather an imprter or one of pedersolis sub's from Italy

also sold under cabelas and Lyman .

i have never seen one with double sets swapman . care to post a photo of one

yep as much as it chaffs my A$$ to say it .swampman is right . ill have to give him credit for this one
took some digging but the cabals sportarized hawken is avalable with double set triggers . if you want to pay 499.00 for it

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...amp;cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us