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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
well I dunno about elk.. .never got lucky enough to shoot yet..
But deer, there is no problem breaking through both shoulders. You simply can't choose a POS head, and run a light arrow. We've punched through deer shoulders AND hog shoulders with the right head and a heavy enough arrow. BTW the shoulders were not the chosen target but the animals move sometimes and sometimes you just don't hit where you want regardless.
Too much is placed these days on distant shots with a bow. From the accuracy standpoint its not hard at all to hit a deer at 100 yards for a practiced shooter. Problem is time of flight, distance judgement, and then if you run a light fast setup you get much less penetration.
The only thing mechanical thats proven itself in archery is the compound. Funny that the more I shot deer with one, the more I ended up going back to a good recurve for the pleasure.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,567
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,567 |
I'm not sure what bow/arrow setup you're shooting, but you'd need to have some kind of cannon to shoot through one shoulder let alone two shoulders of our Ohio deer. I've hit one shoulder several times from the inside out on a quartering away shot with 125 Thunderheads at over 300 fps, it didn't even begin to punch through the shoulder. Granted it had penetrated through the chest cavity taking away some of the arrow's steam, but it stuck in the shoulder from the inside. I actually was able to life the entire deer (about 150 adult doe) off the ground trying to pull the arrow out with NO success. Had to unscrew the arrow from the broadhead. Had to be very careful field dressing that deer. And yes, I understand we'd never intentionally try to take a deer, elk, etc. through the shoulder. I once made a bad hit on a buck at 15 yards. I hit him right on the corner of the shoulder. It sounded like a rifle going off and only penetrated about 2 inches from the looks of things. No blood, and never found the deer. That's huntin. And I'm not shooting 40/45 pound equipment either by the way. I've never known or heard of anyone around here punching through a deer's shoulder with a broadhead. Sorry, just sharing my experiences and those of others around here in Ohio.. By the way::::; GO BUCKS, beat michigan....lower case no accident....
Last edited by hunter01; 11/25/10.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,354 |
I have hunted Licking county and Medina county OH whitetails and no I personally have not shot thru one or both shoulders. I have seen two shots go thru one shoulder, first one was a 240lb dressed 9 point and the other a 200lb dressed doe. Both shots made, killed the deer. First shot was with a Mathews Drenlin with a Easton FMJ and Slicktrick. I am not sure of the draw weight I can find out in a week once he is back. The second was with a hand made long bow 79lb @ 29" with a Easton FMJ and a Muzzy 125gr. I have shot thru a shoulder on a 170lb dressed 8 point in VT. I was at that time shooting a Reflex Caribou @ 73lb with a Easton FMJ and Slicktrick. A shoulder can be shot thru using a quality broadhead with a decent weight arrow. Does it destroy a shoulder like a bullet? Absolutely not. But it will break thru. I don't think any archer purposely shoots for the shoulder. It is hunting and sometimes the ideal doesn't happen.
Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 41
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 41 |
I am having a hard time letting this go. I have read all 7 pages of this post twice, because I have been thinking about using Rage broadheads. I love the way one post asked the OP if he would trust his life to the Rage head? WTF is all I have to say about that? And the guy was actually serious. . . For one the OP wife was hunting whitetails. Successfully with her Rage head. Anyone who would trust their life with archery tackle when it comes to a Brown Bear is a dumbass. I have a 375 H&H for that task, if archery hunting then most smart people carry a handgun appropriate for self defense. As far as mechanical broadheads go I killed a 327 P&Y bull elk with 100 grain spitfires in Wyoming,(with glock 10mm in tow for bears, again WTF). I have killed many whitetails with Thunderhead 125's when I got back into archery hunting I used the head that gave me the best accuracy and at the time that was the spitfire, why would I take the time to tune the damn thing if I don't have too? My opinion here, but if you have to open a brand new package of broadheads and start tuning then perhaps they aren't best engineered piece of equipment on the shelf.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,794 |
Hit any kind of bone with a rage and watch it go to pieces, bend or fail to open! I'm not talking wimpy white tail deer on broad side lung shots either. They are EASY to kill as are most deer. Step up to elk or moose ribs or anything of that size and penetration is a huge issue. They have a HARD time penetrating a big boars shield. I know the guy personally that machines them for Rage. He hates them and tells me all the time how weak they are. I have shot them into soft material and all kinds of stuff. They are complete junk...a throw away broad head at best. Sure they work for deer when all is well (broad side shots). Get a tough shot and good luck. But guys love to buy gimmicks and "crutches" for their poor shooting. I have shot several brands of mechanicals. When they work they work awesome. When they don't work, you lose an animal of a lifetime. Fixed blades work every time all the time. Flinch
Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,241
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,241 |
Hmmmmm...... I am not sure i should even add to this, BUT...... I am on both sides of the fence. I shot 125 gr. muzzy for years and years. Shot MANY of deer with them. I lost 1 buck that was hit near perfect, and i cow elks that i shot just a lil low and fwd. But i didnt lose teh faith in 125g muzzy's....alot came into play. Maybe the blade was not scapel sharp or i was just that fraction of an inch out of a vital hit. I agree with the KISS theory!! BUT......i did get bite by the RAGE MARKETING. And so i have tired them, and wow. They do what they say and even a couple friends have tried them and are impress with penetration and would channel. A mature buck i shot last yr was POOOOORLY hit (my fault), and it only went 35 yds with an increadle wound channel with a 2-blade Rage. WOW. I was thankful for alllll the diameter on THAT hit. There is a place for both. Common sense will prevail. I love the muzzy, kinda sold on the Montec's as well....and well, if i am shooting a mechanical, it is a 2-blade Rage. Have expereience and seen enuf shots on anmials (even poor hits) and the animals just dont travel far. WORD TO THE WISE:......since they are mechanical, things do move. EVREYTIME you nock a Rage check the head and make sure the baldes are SET!!!! Bad things happen if not and this was advised to me and am thankful for it. Rages are NOT a "stalk and hunt" broadhead in my opinion, cuz the baldes can shake loose of the o-ring. But they are great tree stand blades. On spot and stalk hunts..i will have a fixed head. There is my 2 cents.....feel free to give me change back!  Holy [bleep], I have never seen so many spelling errors in a single post. I wouldn't even mention it but when you type a reply and see a red squiggly line under it, it means you can't spell and you right click it and it fixes it for you. I feel stupider for reading your post.
-Piss into the wind.
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,241
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 3,241 |
I think you actually retarded me with that post.
-Piss into the wind.
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
I'm not sure what bow/arrow setup you're shooting, but you'd need to have some kind of cannon to shoot through one shoulder let alone two shoulders of our Ohio deer. I've hit one shoulder several times from the inside out on a quartering away shot with 125 Thunderheads at over 300 fps, it didn't even begin to punch through the shoulder. Granted it had penetrated through the chest cavity taking away some of the arrow's steam, but it stuck in the shoulder from the inside. I actually was able to life the entire deer (about 150 adult doe) off the ground trying to pull the arrow out with NO success. Had to unscrew the arrow from the broadhead. Had to be very careful field dressing that deer. And yes, I understand we'd never intentionally try to take a deer, elk, etc. through the shoulder. I once made a bad hit on a buck at 15 yards. I hit him right on the corner of the shoulder. It sounded like a rifle going off and only penetrated about 2 inches from the looks of things. No blood, and never found the deer. That's huntin. And I'm not shooting 40/45 pound equipment either by the way. I've never known or heard of anyone around here punching through a deer's shoulder with a broadhead. Sorry, just sharing my experiences and those of others around here in Ohio.. By the way::::; GO BUCKS, beat michigan....lower case no accident.... First, thunderheads would not be my choice to break bones... and you quote speed, thats part of the problem these days... speed freaks... it doesn't take speed to break bones.. it takes weight... just like folks wanting to shoot light bullets at deer. Anyway I can't say I've had the pleasure of shooting a deer over about 180 pounds... but I've yet to see a strong shoulder blade.... knuckle joint and lower bone yes, blades no. We have driven Zwickeys through the shoulders of 300 plus pound hogs including their shields though. I doubt a northern deer would be any tougher. I certainly wouldn't run a rage though anyhting like that.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,731
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,731 |
I have a friend with some experience with Rage heads. He took up bow hunting this year. He bought a Bowtech Destroyer 350 and the works for accessories. I recommended Spitfire broadheads. He bought some Rage 2 blades as well.
He put a piece of cardboard in front of a piece of foam, and another behind it. He shot it 5 times with the Spitfire heads. He got 3 cuts in both pieces of cardboard. He did it again with the Rage heads and got 2 cuts twice and only one the third time. He figured one blade didn't open.
He put the blue foam block on it's side and shot it lengthwise. He cut it right down to the broadhead with a carpenter's saw and only one blade opened. He did it again, and found that only one blade opened. He went with the Spitfires. He got his first deer this past week. A nice 115 pound doe.
I killed 3 deer this year with 100 grain Spitfire heads.
I killed 4 last year, 3 the year before, and 3 the year before that. I can go back 25 years... I've used Spitfire heads since I was a teenager and won't use anything else.
"I didn't get the sophisticated gene in this family. I started the sophisticated gene in this family." Willie Robertson
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 57,485 |
anyone that trusts a mechanical will get burned eventually. Nuff said there.
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,343
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,343 |
I switched to 100 grn. Rage 2 blade this year. Zipped through this doe at 20 yards with no issues at all. Huge holes on both sides, when I butchered her it was obvious the heads did exactly what they were designed to do. This was shooting 59#, 28" Beman ICS at 278ish fps. Not bad, but not screaming fast either. ![[Linked Image]](https://lh5.ggpht.com/_ZbaPf72ggMA/TPzzln5ueoI/AAAAAAAACQw/mLO1jxlwBbA/s912/2010-12-05_17-47-21_706.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://lh4.ggpht.com/_ZbaPf72ggMA/TPz2REZXimI/AAAAAAAACQ4/w0JP7pgFeyE/s912/2010-12-05_17-45-45_364.jpg)
Last edited by bersh; 01/15/11.
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 24,851 |
anyone that trusts a mechanical will get burned eventually. Nuff said there. Yep, unfortunately for me it was a giant of a Coues Whitetail buck in Tucson AZ. Lets just say losing a 130+inch 5x5 Coues will get you sick to the point of NEVER ever wanting to use a mechanical again no matter the hype.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,644
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 24,644 |
anyone that trusts a mechanical will get burned eventually. Nuff said there. Absolutely concur.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/X0n16mr.png) WWP53D
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,677
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,677 |
For years I shot Muzzy's, and they drove me nuts. For some reason, perfect shots produced zero to no blood. Almost gave up on 4 different deer after shooting and finding no blood. Glad I kept up on them, because I found them 40-75 yards away from my stand. They do the trick, but I can not stand not having a blood trail. I hunt in thick, remote places people dont like to go. After I shoot an animal, 8-9 times out of ten I can not see the deer take off. If I have no blood, I many times have no chance.
Plus, mechanicals, for me anyways, fly straighter. I got good with muzzy's, but with more surface area, they have more of a chance of not flying straight, hitting limbs, etc. If I hit a deer in the shoulder with a mechanical, then I chalk it up that it was a bad shot. I would rather have a straight flying mechanical hit where it is suppose too, and do as much damage as it can, producing a trail where I can find the animal. There is nothing worse than knowing you hit that animal double lung, and not knowing where it went, and cant find a trail of blood to locate it.
I am sure I might get lynched for that, but that is the way I roll, and it works for me.
joe
Providing digital marketing services for startups & small-to-midsize companies - including website design/hosting, videography and editing. www.jolinmedia.com
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,677
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,677 |
"anyone that trusts a mechanical will get burned eventually. Nuff said there."
I have been burned too many times with fixed blades. That is why I went to mechanicals.
joe
Providing digital marketing services for startups & small-to-midsize companies - including website design/hosting, videography and editing. www.jolinmedia.com
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,813
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,813 |
I've plastered 6 deer with the Rage my hunting buddy has put down 3 others...No issues..
All excellent entry and exit holes with exceptional blood trails..
We'll stick with em..
Hunt...
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,813
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,813 |
Hunt...
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,813
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,813 |
oops, I forgot Dans 300lb bear from this season ![[Linked Image]](http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm240/coalbed/deer%20pics%20II/new%20deer%20pics/BD2C.jpg)
Hunt...
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,330
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,330 |
My wife and I have used RAGE 3 blade for for 3 years and have shot 15 deer, ranging from a 130lb. doe to 230lb bucks most deer in the 140 to 170lb range. All have been pass through shots none went more than 150yrds. Three were liver only hits, most went only 30-50yrd. I hunt in a thick cedar swamp with wolves and coyotes you cannot leave a deer lay, and come back later to track you need to follow in a few minutes or loose a hide quarter. The only thing better is a 7mm Mag and a 150gr bullet.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,076
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,076 |
The first Rage I shot was into an armadillo at 30yds. The blades sheared off and stayed inside said critter. The Rage heads were then unscrewed and thrown in the Savannah river without delay. Zwickeys were then re-installed onto arrows and hunting was resumed. Lesson learned.
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