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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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this is a hugely interesting discussion. only the internet at this point in time could empower such a discussion. everything from the monotheistic god, through various degrees to the pantheist view...and the secular humanists too. having grown up in a church that preached that the throne of god was hand-hewn from redoak, it was years before i decided the Throne was really hand-hewn from whiteoak...leaving the contenders for redoak thrones totally out in the cold. and of course, some of us do pursue a "personal" God. one that is bigger, better, and stronger than us. but, otherwise just like us...and if we make a mistake that version of God will likely reach down and pinch our head's off. and rightfully so. then, there's those who walk amongst us who can live with a more "spiritual" god. one that is with us in spirit, if not otherwise. at any rate, i don't know for certain. but, the discussion is very worthwhile to have. certainly, there'll be no general agreement, but why should there be? zero gods, one god, three gods, a multitude of gods, how much difference is it actually going to make, after all? as an aside once them aliens get all the gold from the earth to pave their streets with, what'll they do with the tailings, anyone know?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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To me it's always sad to hear about people trusting non-existent super-natural beings - when they should be listening to scientists.
Here's the sad story - both for the leader - and his followers.
The lesson?
Never drink the cool-aid.
Even after an eruption alert was issued and most villagers on the slopes of Java's Mount Merapi had been evacuated, 83-year old Mbah (grandfather) Maridjan stayed put.
The spiritual "guardian" of the mountain, his battle to tame one of Indonesia's most active volcanoes ended on Wednesday when he was buried by the mountain's thick ash.
He was reportedly found dead in a prayer position in his house, as rescuers also dug out more than two dozen more victims in the area - many who had also refused to leave.
In the wake of the eruption, houses and fields were left blanketed in thick, white ash, while leaves had been singed off trees.
Villagers say they will mourn the loss of a respected elder who was as important to them as the mountain itself.
The mountain is seen as sacred in the region, seen as the home of ancient Javanese spirits.
Located on the outskirts of the city of Yogyakarta on Java Island, it regularly causes small eruptions in the area.
Mount Merapi is seen as sacred in the region. For years Maridjan had led ceremonies at the volcano, dispersing rice or flowers in or around the crater in an effort to appease spirits.
Maridjan believed he had a duty to the late sultan of Yogyakarta, Hamengkubuwono IX, who had appointed him for this purpose.
If there were to be an eruption, many villagers believed Maridjan would be warned in a vision.
Local beliefs are a mix of Islam, Indonesia's most predominant religion, and those dating from the island's Hindu-Buddhist period.
One tradition is the annual Labuhan ceremony, an auspicious event where the palace makes offerings to spirits, including the Goddess of the South Sea, Kanjeng Ratu Kidul.
It was Marijan who helped ensure such rituals were upheld.
Now that he's no longer around, who's going to look after Merapi?� It is not the first time the old man had defied warnings from the authorities about the volcano.
In 2006, when Mt Merapi last erupted, Maridjan even went closer to the crater, to meditate.
At the time, he told one journalist: "I'm not afraid because it's my duty.
"I'm like a soldier - they are never scared," he added.
Perhaps it came as less of a surprise then, when this time, despite government warnings, Mbah Maridjan decided that it was important to stay.
One rescue worker said that Maridjan was adamant in his refusal to leave his home village of Kinahrejo, just 5km (three miles) from the crater.
"I'm so used to being at home, it's better for me to just stay here and pray," Maridjan reportedly told him.
A journalist meanwhile perished trying to warn the old man to leave, according to local reports.
Maridjan was not the only one who could not bring themselves to leave, and rescuers say they fear the death toll may rise.
"I keep thinking about what's happening up there, with my cows, my property," said Hadi Sumarmo, who has a farm in Srumbung, a village 5km from the crater's mouth.
"I just want to go back to check. If I hear sirens, I'll get out again quickly."
For many survivors, the region will not be the same without their spiritual protector.
"To us, Maridjan is as important as Merapi. Now that he's no longer around, who's going to look after Merapi?" Wanto, 56, a farmer, told AFP news agency.
"What happens if there's another eruption?"
But, according to the Jakarta Globe, it was not a shock to the Yogyakarta palace, who had been warned of Maridjan's fate from a premonition.
"We had known long before it happened that Mbah Maridjan would be taken by Merapi," the newspaper quoted Gusti Prabukusumo, the brother of the current sultan, as saying.
"Now that he's gone, we have to choose a new gatekeeper soon." So who is to say it was not his time to go regardless of circumstances?????
Its all right to be white!! Stupidity left unattended will run rampant Don't argue with stupid people, They will drag you down to their level and then win by experience
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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A journalist meanwhile perished trying to warn the old man to leave, according to local reports. If you need a journalist to tell you the volcano is erupting... Just sayin
A government is the most dangerous threat to man�s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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yep. synchronicity of events caused his demise, no doubt.
given the volcano, his location in proximity to it, and his unwillingness to evacuate, he was found to be in an unsustainable location. if only...
God, and/or his subordinates did all they could to save the man, no doubt. but, Angels aren't omnipotent. so there we have it. another Soul left the biological body.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,880 |
BCBrian,
Do you view the concept of a Universe as the totality of what science can, has or eventually will prove/disprove?
Science says we can not destroy matter, we can only covert it.
Should there even be another universe beyond this one, then that would only expand what science has found at that point in time. It would seem to be a paradoxical end to the science approach, if science would ever prove the Universe was just there. Again, something for nothing. So again, we arrive at the veiled face of divinity.
If the Universe was just there, how does that not become a question of paradoxical nature?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Deists also claim Henry David Thoreau for whatever that's worth.
All Christians are atheists to the other religions.
Many Pagans, especially Witches, could be considered pantheists.
This Pagan believes in a monotheistic Deity also called The First Cause, Super Ultimate, The One, etc. that has two aspects, the Divine Feminine and the Divine Masculine, for whatever that's worth.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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This Pagan believes in a monotheistic Deity also called ... The One So you are an Obama supporter? ;-)
NRA Lifer "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain "Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
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This Pagan believes in a monotheistic Deity also called ... The One So you are an Obama supporter? ;-) Not THAT one!!!!
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,510
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Regarding the original post. Almost every large hunting forum has one. The militant atheist. The militant homosexual. The militant liberal. Even the militant animal rights fanatic. (Edit, after poking around I forgot The militant anti-Catholic. Not sure how I could forget that one!) Etc... Considering as a rule, those things don't typical go with the 'typical hunter' their outspokeness runs the gamut from entertaining to yes annoying. Just take the posts for what they are worth, consider the source, and hunt on. Sometimes easier said than done, I know. But then again, I'm one of those God fearing, heterosexual, conservative, meat eaters.... sooooo.... consider that source as well.
Last edited by GeauxLSU; 10/28/10.
NRA Lifer "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain "Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Regarding the original post. Almost every large hunting forum has one. The militant atheist. The militant homosexual. The militant liberal. Even the militant animal rights fanatic. Etc... Some have one or more of the above traits. Great fodder for trolling in a place like this. .
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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And the militant racist Militant bigot Militant elitist Militant hyperconservative Militant [bleep] - Usually in excessive numbers. 24hr being no exception.
Save an elk, shoot a cow.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Posts: 1,880 |
All Christians are atheists to the other religions.
Would that be because Christians unify the prophecies of the Old Testament in the New Testament?
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 34,261 |
All Christians are atheists to the other religions.
Would that be because Christians unify the prophecies of the Old Testament in the New Testament? No, it follows the old adage that if you don't believe in my God you are an atheist.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Posts: 17,048
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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All Christians are atheists to the other religions. I thought atheist meant "doesn't beleive in God". I DO believe in the gods of other religions. The Bible speaks plenty clearly about them and who and what they are... This Pagan believes in a monotheistic Deity also called The First Cause, Super Ultimate, The One, etc. that has two aspects, the Divine Feminine and the Divine Masculine, for whatever that's worth. Not much.
BAN THE RAINBOW FLAG! PERVERTS OFFEND ME!
"When is penguin season, daddy? I wanna go kill a penguin!" ---- 4 yr old Archerhuntress
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Posts: 34,261 |
All Christians are atheists to the other religions. I thought atheist meant "doesn't believe in God". I DO believe in the gods of other religions. The Bible speaks plenty clearly about them and who and what they are... Atheism can mean to not believe in any God or not believe in the other guys Gods/Goddesses. Christians believe in only one God (some would say three Gods, the Trinity) and are aware of other Gods/Goddesses of other religions but do not accept those Gods/Goddesses as equal to their God. The closes to accepting others God/Goddesses is the Catholic Church's sanctifying some Pagan Gods/Goddesses by conferring sainthood on them, i.e. Saint Bridget. This Pagan believes in a monotheistic Deity also called The First Cause, Super Ultimate, The One, etc. that has two aspects, the Divine Feminine and the Divine Masculine, for whatever that's worth. Not much. See, atheist,
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,510
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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All Christians are atheists to the other religions.
Would that be because Christians unify the prophecies of the Old Testament in the New Testament? No, it follows the old adage that if you don't believe in my God you are an atheist. That may be an old adage but it most certainly should not be remotely universally applied. I am a Christian (Catholic). If you don't believe in the divinity of God (the Father), Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit (aka The Trinity) that does not necessarily make you an atheist in my book. It just makes you wrong. And I FULLY respect your right to be wrong! An Atheist, is most certainly someone who has made a conscious decision to reject any teachings he/she has been exposed to and believes in no god. I find it hard to call someone who has never heard of God an Atheist although I suppose technically they could be called such. An Agnostic simply has a fear of commitment.
NRA Lifer "It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." - Mark Twain "Everybody has principles... until they are an inconvenience." - Me
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