Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles .256 Winchester Magnum

new question???? I have a ruger Hawkeye that i under stand is 1x14 twist for 60 grain bullets. I know t-c currently makes 1x10 twist in the 256. But I think they ( T-C} made 1x14 twist barrels in the past. Does anyone know how to tell them apart and was they marked in any way on the outside????????? Please Help Thank You

A well oiled tight fitting patch on a cleaning rod will rotate with the rifling while you push it down the bore. Measure the distance it takes to rotate one full turn.

Because of the short barrel on a handgun you may have to take 1/2 rotation and multiply by 2 or 1/4 by 4 etc.

A barrel that rotated once in a 12" push would be 1:12 twist. If it rotated 1/4 turn in 4 inches the twist would be 1:16. You get the idea ...

I'd try it several times to ensure it doesn't slip.

In case anyone was interested in the particulars...

As it turned out, a sized piece of brass on my RCBS dies was exactly .02 over SAAMI specs at the shoulder. I addressed the problem by shortening the die until a sized piece of brass was exactly SAAMI length at the shoulder. I calipered all the other dimensions and they are also right on. If I turn the die out, even a 1/4 of a turn, I once again have to squeeze the action closed. It's a tight fit.

My best guess is that RCBS lengthened the die to address the overly long chambers of the Marlins in .256 of period. That is assuming it was intentional at all.

You may well be right. Your chamber sounds like the one Greg had. His case life was much better than mine was.
As we reduced pressure, my Marlin�s accuracy improved significantly. With light loads powered by fast burning powder, we both shot some very small groups at 50- and 75-yards. I have a sharp pointed post 4X scope and with light cast loads it is great fun to set a Necco wafer on the post and squeeze the trigger.
Best cast bullet accuracy is with the Lyman 257283. This 85-grain bullet has a wide base band and I believe this is the key to its accuracy.
Greg got his best accuracy shooting gas check bullets without the gas check.

Field results (finally): I put on a Marbles tang sight (adjustable for both windage and elevation). It has a gold bead front sight. 50 yard groups were the size of a quarter, which is exceptional for me without a scope. Only 3 fliers out of 100 rounds would make it push 2". 97 would be 1". It would be interesting to see what it would do with a scope or a better front sight. But, I have no intention of altering the rifle at this point. 100 rounds brought no signs of leading. Another 100 destroyed tin cans galor, out to 100 yards. Feed and extraction were flawless. It was a real pleasure to shoot.


I loaded it with Meister .258 LRNFP and trail boss. Fired case dimensions: overall length, shoulder position, case head, and neck remained within .001. The case grew .004 in diameter immediately below the shoulder. I would imagine, cases will lengthen a bit on resize, but hopefully I'll still get good case life.

Bad news ... About 1 in 10 primers pierced. The firing pin looks fine. I used pistol primers, thinking of the .357 parent case and the fact that 92s are chambered for revolver cartridges. I'm thinking of switching to small rifle primers ... Any thought on that one?

It's interesting. I never made a note of the cartridge until I fell into this rifle. Overall, I'm happy with the find. It should make a fine small to light medium game rifle.

Strider: I just stumbled on this thread, and if I'd seen it before now, I'd not have started my own a couple days ago: Hunting Rifles: ".256 Winchester: Big Game Capable".

I spent a full year messing with little else than the Model 62 Marlin. Much of what I learned the hard way is borne out by guys on this thread, particularly william iorg.

I did find a morsel I might consider, and that is to try .357 Maximum brass as the parent case. As william noted, case life is much less than spectacular (at least in the Marlin), especially when loading jacketed bullets for high velocity. My experience with full-tilt loads is that I'm only getting three firings before I see stuff I don't like. I'm a fraidy-cat, since I experienced catastrophic case failure (in a .223) ONCE, and I'd like to keep my current score.

Go with rifle primers. This is mentioned more than once in literature I've found.

My dies are RCBS, and I have the forming dies (RCBS) as well. I've not had any trouble with chambering brass from these dies, and even got away with backing the die off the shoulder of a fired case a bit (trying to fight the brief case life thing).

Multiple reports from other guys claimed that no forming dies were used, but with annealing and forming, I've had no mortality rate in that process. I'm sticking with it.

Cartridges out of these dies chambered in a 2nd Marlin 62 that followed me home, and my Contender barrel as well. You've concluded you have a much tighter chamber, and that can be nothing but a good thing (since you figured out how to adapt to it).

I DID find, that loading the Hot-Cor 75g FP, that I had to seat the bullet all the way to the TOP of the cannelure to chamber in the 62. (That bullet gets to .257 diameter pretty soon behind the tip.)

William is right again with his "milder is more accurate" for this cartridge. I pooh-poohed the old Sierra "accuracy load" of 14.3g of IMR4227 (75g bullet) and ventured into things racier, then humbly came to understand that the Sierra ballistician of days gone by did his homework.

The 75g V-Max was the belle of the ball for my gun, and with the "two-shot" strategy, it could be for yours as well. I thought it was a fluke when the 62 all of a sudden shot a .95" group. Then it shot a .71" group, and so I handed it to the neighbor teen buddy that lurks around when I'm messing with guns, and he shot a .76" group. (100 yards, 9x scope).

I am VERY interested in other suggested powders and how they might compare to IMR4227 for jacketed bullet loads (especially the newer powders that weren't around when most of the literature was published for this cartridge). I wonder if there is a new "secret powder" that might allow me to venture into the racy realm again (armed with heavier brass).

I just finished perusing Greg's website, as William recommended (toward my interest in newer powders), and saw that AA2015 and H322 seemed the standouts for the 75g Vmax (for velocity consistency and group size across the range of charge weights). Benchmark put on a good show at the top of the charge weights tried.

Then I looked in the left upper column, and saw that his shooting was done at 50 yards. What I thought was pretty good accuracy at first glance suffered greatly with this information.

Another puzzlement was his recorded SD's. Relatively great compared to what I've experienced with the old IMR4227. Also, his velocities are rather pedestrian, even compared to mild loads from the old books. Please tell me I'm missing something.

Sierra's "accuracy load" of 14.3grains produces 2360fps out of my 62, with SD's at about 7 fps. 14.7grains brought the SD's down to 4-7fps, but accuracy fell off just a bit. I went as high as 15.6 grains at 2580fps, and SD's stayed around 5fps, but accuracy went away.

All my shooting with the .256 (aside from preliminary sighting in) has been done at 100 yards. Primarily because I believe the .256 is at least a 100yd cartridge, especially in a scoped rifle. First tries (with a few loose factory rounds I acquired, and my initial handloads at the top of the velocity range for IMR4227), were at 2-2.5". This to me was not satisfactory.

I did some bedding work (no glass; installed a clever stout pillar on the front action screw which allowed support between the barrel and the lower wood), and carefully sanded out the barrel channel to float. The gun shot moderately better.

It was not until I tried the old Sierra load that everything came together in spades.

I guess so far (according to my experience and comparisons), the "new secret powder" is the geriatric IMR4227.

Greg collected this data in the 2000 or 2001 time frame during the old Marlin Talk Board days. Greg and I met about this time and we exchanged data on the 25-20 WCF and the 256 WM. I had the RCBS Load program on the big floppy disc and a 286 computer, which did not run the program very well. We graphed loads and scanned targets using the Target Tool function.
At the time, Greg had the 50-yard range on a piece of property near his home. He had a covered shooting bench and his chronograph screen stands buried in concrete. Greg has been building a shooting tunnel for several years now so he won�t have to go to the range to shoot at longer distances.
Greg and I have compared targets for quite a few years and his bench technique beats mine on most days - as does his ability at the load bench.
For target and varmint shooting Greg and I moved on to the 25-35, me with fast twist barrels and Greg with slow twist barrels. We had great fun comparing the potential of both and researching past writing on the .25 caliber varmint barrels. As we moved up into the 25-35 Ackley Improved Greg�s gunsmith ruined his barrel while rechambering and put our fun on hold.
Greg has gathered all of the pieces to assemble another slow twist 25-35 rifle and with luck, we will be shooting again soon.

Back to the 256 WM, we shot some good targets out to 100-yards with cast and jacketed bullets using Hodgdon 322 and H4227. Greg uses target scopes and I have a straight 4X with post reticule on mine.
We graphed our loads by group size, fps Vs grains of powder and by velocity extreme spread. It was interesting to see how the powders compared to one another. Greg had a conventional button rifled barrel and I had the Micro Groove. We did not see much difference in accuracy potential but his chamber was cut to standard and mine was oversize. We experienced a big difference in case life. I switched to 357 Maximum brass which improved my case life a bit.
After quite a bit of searching Greg bought Winchester 256 WM brass and with his tight chamber, he could explore the �outer limits� of performance without alarming case loss.
Greg and I discussed powder selection, velocity and case life quite a bit on the old Marlin Talk Board. We did not run into anyone shooting a Ruger Hawkeye or a Universal ferret. Everyone we spoke with, and there were not many, was shooting a Marlin. Most of these shooter were having case life problems and case forming problems. This is the reason for the pedestrian velocities on his charts. As you are aware, when the velocity climbs in the Marlin rifle, case life shortens.

Greg probably accommodated my shooting at the time as far as range is concerned. We were shooting raccoons from pecan trees and the range was generally less than 50-yards, but we needed to hit them hard to bring them out of the tree. We had to stay inside 2� offhand or with a leaning support at this distance as we were shooting up into trees. For this reason we tried hard to keep the bullets inside the critters.



For the 75-grain V-Max I prefer Alliant Reloder 10x and keep the velocity in the 2,000 fps range. But then my targets are smaller than yours!

Great and useful information here, and you will be the blame if I start messing around with .25-35 performance. Curious as to what rifles you were playing with/rebarreling there.

Also: with the switch to .357 Maximum brass for the .256, were there any issues with neck thickness after the forming process (since the benefit of greater case life, I think would come from the thicker-walled brass)? Was neck turning then necessary? Perhaps the generous Marlin chamber would not need it.

Twenty or so years ago the 25-35 Winchester Model 94 and the Savage 99 were pretty common in West Texas and the grey rats did not bring a significant premium � this was before people figured out they could rejuvenate these rifles and make a silk purse�.
I have had several to play with. I finally had to switch to new barrels to explore the true accuracy potential of the 25-35. I first tried the Thompson Contender with a 24� barrel. This was a failure as the TC does not have adequate extraction for the significantly tapered cartridge. The 25-35 in the TC rifle will stick a cartridge case when the load levels are at current published maximums or when you start to explore the �modern loading� of the 25-35.
I also picked up a Model 94AE when they were available and this has proven to be a lot of fun.
The Winchester Hi-Wall is the place to be with this cartridge. I have a 24� TC barrel chambered for the 25-35AI which is a remarkable rifle. I have shot this beside two Remington 700 Classics in 250 Savage with interesting results.
For my use on small deer and pigs the 100-grain bullet is the best compromise for velocity and killing power. I am attaching a link to a thread started by Dr. A. We have not added much to the thread for a few years but it will get you started. Alliant Reloder 10X and the 100-grain bullet is where you want to start with the modern 25-35. IMR 4320 is still the powder to beat. Take a look at the thread. My wife and I shoot the 25-35 quite a bit due to the reduced recoil and the low noise of the cartridge, even in a 20� barrel. The 24� TC barrel handles well as a walk around rifle with a low power scope and with a target scope it is a real gopher getter.
For the TC rifles Francis Sell�s 25-35 Tomcat is probably the best solution to the extraction problem. For the lever action rifles the standard cartridge works fine at higher velocities as you will see in the thread.
One of my projects is a slow twist 25-35 or a 25 Remington bolt action. This used to be an almost insurmountable dream but the new 6.8SPC cartridge has changed that with a proper bolt face available from several manufacturers now.
The thread is a bit of a slow starter but I believe it devolps pretty well.
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=20108&highlight=.25-35

I will look at that, and thanks!

I do have a VERY good pre-64 '94 in .25-35 (my only .25-35), but along that line was very interested in your Contender experience, as I had a .25 Bullberry (30-30 necked down) barrel made for my TC frame, in 15" (and braked), and took a fine antelope with it, along with chucks and coyotes. This is a very near straight-wall case, and no extraction problems yet.

I have toyed with the idea of having a rifle length barrel made in the same chambering for the Contender. I need another .25 rifle like I need a hole in the head, but that did not stop me when I had a Mini Mark X 7.62x39 rebarreled to .25PPC: matching .250 Savage velocities (3000fps) with the Nosler 85g Ballistic Tip. I call it the .25 "Pronghorn Pursuit Cartridge", (apologies to Palmisano and Pindell).

Tiny, tiny gun, great performer, and carries like a wisp.

Below is a link to the 25-35AI thread.
I believe the 25-35 Tomcat the 25 Bullbery are the route to go with the TC barrels. This overcomes the extraction problem and makes the barrel useful.
Isn�t it odd the lever actions do not have extraction problems with 25-35 loads which raise the performance level of the little cartridge to new heights?

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=25916&highlight=.25-35ai

I am hijacking your threaad, post on one of the two or start one here and we'll discuss the 25-35.