Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting 30-06 vs. 7mm Mag, real world difference out to 700 yds?

Thanks.

JC and I keep threatening to make it happen. It's tricky. It's quite windy where he lives, often, which makes it hard to just plan on a day... and he's far enough away (2-1/2 hrs or so I think) that it's not just a spontaneous phone call thing...

I'm surprised to find you so resistant to the idea that high-BC bullets at 3100+ are a cool thing, John!

I am not resistant to higher BC bullet or velocity. Learning how to shoot long range consistently is the most important part of the equation and high BC bullets or velocity will help the learning curve, but practice with an accomplished shooter will. One can not purchase knowledge nor expertise

No, one cannot.

.

I think a guy should have both......

That's my thinking too, Bob. Can't see how increasing the precision level hurts anything.

But John isn't saying that, he knows... he's running very precise equipment (Nightforce, S&B) and high-BC bullets. He's just making the point that I've still got tons to learn about wind and could learn from a master, and what can I say, that's true, big time.

Variable winds, across a canyon with just "air" to read (IE, no vegetation etc) really gives me fits.

Jeff,

I took up LR shooting in earnest about two years ago. Shooting Tactical comps, training, and practice, I fired about 2200-308 Rounds through my rifle. Rebarreled to 7mm-08, I've put another 600 + through it in about 4 months.

A 308 will give about 6-8 K rounds before needing a new barrel. A 7mm-08 is good for about 3-4 K rounds.

A 30-06 should give about 5-6K rounds, and a 7mm Rem mag somewhere around 1.5- 2K rounds before rebarreling.

The key to shooting long range is practice, and lot's of it. If you cannot afford to plop for a $500 rebarrel job once or twice a year, then stay away from anything that shoots a high BC in the neighborhood of 3100 FPS.....

Just a thought,

Bob

Hi Bob,

Good point, thanks for bringing it up. Barrel life was a significant consideration when I got my "heavy" LR rig, a Sendero, a couple years ago. I stayed away from .264 and 7 RUM for just that reason (I went 300WM).

I'll be curious if others see a 7WSM is a 1500-2000 round tube. It's really 7WSM I'm interested in here. I put 7-mag in the title just because it has basically identical ballistics and many more people are familiar with it (and, of course, 30/06).

At any rate, in general I shoot a lot too, and have been playing the LR game in earnest like you for a couple of years. My round count this last year was the lowest in a decade due to money, primarily. So I hear you. I do spread my practice across a half-dozen rifles, from 7-08 to .338, and that's partly to not "use up" any given barrel too fast.

If I got my dream rifle tomorrow, a 7WSM Montana, I'd expect to spend a "few" hundred rounds in load developement and break-in. I already have a Montana so hopefully, I've run that part of the learning curve already (they are a little different to shoot well). Then I'd expect to put another 300-500 rounds through it in the next year before hunting season. Then the NEXT year would be the one where I'd either push it hard then rebarrel, or back off and make it last for another season.

But either way, rebarrels are part of the plan in general.

Jrff,

The 7mm WSM has around 80-81 grains case capacity. The 7mm Rem Mag is in the 85 grain range. Not a lot of difference in terms of meaningful barrel life. I would expect about 300-500 more shots out of a 7mm WSM barrel compared to a 7mm rem mag.

The 7mm Rem SAUM is the "best" of the mag 7's, with a 74 grain case capacity. You can still reach 2950 FPS with a 162 gr, A-Max, which is still pretty flat. The 7mm SAUM should yeild at least 500 more shots than a 7mm WSM.

Barrel life may not a be a big deal to a hunter shooting 50 rounds a year. But achieving and maintaining LR excellence means trigger pulls in the high numbers per year.

However, one sure way to get on your gunsmiths X-max card list, is to own a magnum, and shoot often.......

Better to buy a heavy barreled 308 or 7mm-08, shoot out the barrel in under two years, on targets north of 500 yds and then consider whether LR shooting is your thing or not.

It's cheaper to learn that way, then justing burning out barrels, or not shooting cause it's to damn expensive.

Regards,

Bob

Jeff, you are correct in what I am saying. My point is hone your skills until you you benefit from the higher performance round and the spend the coin

I have had a couple heavy-barrel .308's... a Savage and a 26" DPMS. Never shot the Savage at long range. The DPMS was crazy accurate and did get shot at long range.

Ended up selling it off to buy my Sendero. It was an ergonomics thing as much as anything. I don't want to change horses midstream- I'd like my hunting rifles to be as similar as possible- if not the same thing as- my LR practice rigs.

.... which is my point. What interests me most is practical riflery- getting real good with (mostly) sporter-weight rifles from field positions. Perhaps that explains my thinking here. A light sporter is not ideal. It's not the best platform. It seems to me that the 7-mag might make a significant difference in "reach" simply due to the obvious ballistic advantages- primary wind bucking.

Jeff I think you have the right idea. Wind is usually the limiting factor for long range hunting. The less effect wind has on a bullet, the longer your range. I help get a lot of guys started shooting long range. Until they have their feet firmly under them I tell them not to take a shot if the wind meter tells them that the wind will blow a bullet out of the vitals. Until they have a good deal of experiance I think it is a good rule to hold into the windward side of the vitals and not dial in windage. that way if you get caught in a let up you will still hit in the vitals. After a while and a lot of practice dialing windage becomes second nature as does watching the conditions.

Thanks Eddy.

Where I typically shoot (below) the winds are doing multiple things BUT the net result is typically 2-3 MOA of rightward motion. There's often up or downdrafts too. I was up there last week and it was crazy still... it was really simple to dink my 600-yd plate at will from prone. But that's unusual.

I've got an idea for a new spot. It's lower down, gives 600-1000 yards, is closer to home, and perhaps a little less windy, or hopefully easier to read what wind there is because it's not cross-canyon. I'll have to hike a couple plates into it though.

My main spot:

Jeff, I will take you up on your offer one of these days when the weather gets better. I've got a friend that wants to shoot long range real bad and I know you have an awesome place there. I'll PM you about it later, just wanted to let you know I haven't forgoten about your offer. Thanks, BSA.

Sounds good BSA!

Back from my cow elk hunt in Utah. A 30-06 with a 180 AB will take down a large lead cow at 375 yards. Would have tried 700 but there wasn't room or time to back up. Just kidding, I'm not so into the rong range thing I'd back up to get a further shot.

Bb

I would not back up either and long range is what floats my boat.

Lol. No backing up for me.

My "involvment" with the LR thing is to attempt to be proficient with each and every one of my hunting rifles, out to it's maximum range, which is usually somewhere between 600-700 yards if defined in terms of where it drops below 1800 fps.

As a HUGE side bonus, as I've fought my way towards 600-yd proficiency, things like 350, 400-yd shots have become chip shots (talking targets here). So that's worth it right there.

I'm stuck at home today waiting on a shipment of (inherited) furniture. Bummer. I'd be up burning powder otherwise.

I'll tell you guys one thing, the internet in general and the Campfire in specific are a tremendous resource! You still have to get out and do it but you can learn a lot from the guys ahead of you on the curve. THANKS!!!!

Sounds like you are doing well with the long range shooting, Jeff.

Good deal!

Thanks Tim!

I was up there today. It was a bit gusty but not too bad.

It was illustrative of why I'm contemplating the 7wsm. I started out with the '06 (165-NBT's at 2930 fps or so). First 4 shots were hits at 380, 460, 525, and 604 yards. Switched to my .325 Kimber (200-NAB at 2900 fps). First two were hits at 460 and 604.

So I was feeling a little saucy, and thinking, who needs a phookin' 7mm mag! Lol. But as I continued, the gusts and odds caught up to me and I had some misses....

... until I switched to the 300WM running 200-NAB's at 2860 fps or so. My closest thing to a wind-driller. Also a big, heavy rifle with a big scope with a scope level, 6-oz trigger, and so on. So it's impossible for me to tell for certain if bullet BC is the difference I'm seeing because the platforms are so different but man, it's sure easy to whack my 604-yd plate, even in wind, with that thing. Also got a first-shot hit on my big 850-yd plate but then missed a couple to keep me humble...

I have not decided what I'm doing yet <tm> but if I were a betting man, I'd bet I'll be buying and/or building a 7WSM just to see for myself if there's enough "more" performance there. If so- great! If not- great! Got a new rifle out of the experiment!

I then proceeded to just about kill myself packing a couple plates into a new area, much lower in altitude, with what seem to be MUCH more "normal" wind patterns. Stay tuned!

Jeff:I just don't see how you could go wrong with that 162 Amax.

Not looking at the tables as I type,but will bet it has ballistics/wind resistance as good as that 200 gr 30 cal,will start at 3100 or so(faster than the 30 cal)....in a lighter platform you can carry in rough country,and less recoil to boot.

Trying to figger WTH there is not to like.....