Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Rifle Detonation by a reloading mistake

Jn316 - very interesting post - I think that it is always good for us to hear about (and see) evidence of what can happen when we lose concentration. I do have to warn you that there are some out there (not at this campfire, but out there somewhere) with impeccable backgrounds in science who sometimes wear their undershorts far too high that might take great umbrage at the use of the word "detonate." If I understand them correctly, smokeless powder cannot "detonate", so I doubt that they will accept that a rifle would either. Please note that I am not one of these, I understand you to mean that an inadvertant disassembly took place with great force and speed. Just had to take the opportunity to throw a dig in another direction. Once again, thanks for a great post.

The Springfield is not one of the stronger bolt actions. Neither are the pre-war M-70s or most any other rifle built prior to the late 40s, the early Arisakas being the exception. The military M-98 was made of weak steel by today's standards, but it's design was so good that is was "stronger" than the steel it was made of.

In 1948, Gen Julian Hatcher conducted blow-up tests with a "good" Springfield, an Enfield, a military M-98, and then then new Rem 721. The Enfield and Springfield blew early. The 98 and 721 kept handling hotter and hotter loads until the M-98 blew. The 721 held the load the M-98 blew.

This test illustrates well the differences in relative strength. The 721 is a modern action design built from strong chrome-moly steel. Most actions made of modern steel will have similar strength, which includes tensile strength and gas control. That is why we hear all the stories about modern bolt actions--notable the Rem 700--handling severe overloads without coming apart. The military M-98 hanging in there so long speaks to is excellent design. It would have been interesting if Hatcher had continued the test until the 721 blew.

However, any action can be blown up if the pressure becomes great enough. Who knows if a 700 would have held the load that blew the Springfield Jn316 told us about. I hope nobody is curious enough to try.............

good post

DZ - I think that I remember this one - did you appeal to the manufacturers to perhaps be more aware of the colors they assign to their containers and also advocate having the powder numbers printed in large letters/numbers? If I recall correctly, some cluck wrote in criticizing your suggestions. I also seem to recall the editor or someone commending you on being willing to put your mistake out for everyone to think about. Let me add my vote to that of the editor.

5sdad,

Yes, I called Hodgdon soon after I changed my shorts <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The event made me really tighten up on my loading procedures and, specifically, my attention while handloading.

Yup, I got quite a bit of criticism from that one. If I had remained quiet about it, however, I might not have saved others from making the same mistake that I did. Heck, we're all human and if we are forewarned, perhaps we can change the odds in our favor.

By the way, after buying a new bolt from Remington, the 700 action went on to enjoy life as Karen's .250 Ackley. The rifle is still shooting wonderfully to this day.

Some time later, I blew up the very first Kimber 6PPC (serial # 6PPC1). The problem was a chamber that was cut for a turned-neck and I was issued Sako factory ammo.

The first round chambered a bit hard, but I assumed the headspace was tight. At the shot, the barrel blew downrange about twenty-five yards, the laminated stock forearm split and closed on my left hand, the receiver split in two and the bolt shroud blew into a thousand pieces and embedded themselves into my right hand and face. I wear the steel in my thumb and hand to this day.

As someone said, those who deny detonation on firearms wear their undershorts too high. Presumably it cuts off the circulation of blood to the gonads and brain. Also, they haven't actually experienced a friggin' rifle blow up.

Steve

Steve, please take a look at my post about "You don't need a primer..." Interesting that the round in this case was a PPC that chambered with difficulty as it was in your experience.

Thanks, Amigo, for elucidating. I missed that line. You were right, and I agree with you (not with the line from CAS). So I apologize.

(It ain't easy bein' senile! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

.

That's why I only use one kind of powder! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SS

Well, I've got 4 POS '03's, and I like shooting them. Matter of fact, I know it's NOT the strongest action out there, but I DO try to keep loads for it more apt.

You see, I also blew a gun - in my case, a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44. I came home late, not too long before deer season, and wanted to shoot the next day to prepare for deer season. I wanted to use the .44 for the deer, so .... I decided (just as some described) that I'd been reloading long enough that I'd be able to load in the dark and STILL get good loads.

Baaaaadddddd mistake!

I also happened to find that my can of 2400 was near empty, and I wanted to load at least 250 rds., and likely more, for a good pre-season workout with the beloved .44. Sooooooo .....
I reached for the can of WW-231, and looked up some good mid-range loads. Loaded up 250 rds. with a cast 250 gr. bullet and the 231, which I'd not tried yet in the .44 until then, and two loads a grain apart, and both under the listed maximum, performed adequately, though not stellarly.

NOW we come to the problem. It was about 3:30 a.m. when I was finished, and out of force of habit, I reached for the can of 2400, which of course you'll remember was near empthy, as would be the case had I filled the powder measure's hopper, right? Well, I poured the remainder of nearly a full hopper of 231 into the can of 2400, THEREBY setting myself up for the NEXT loading spree!

Yep. I did it. Came back to the bench a week or so later, and loaded up 22.3 gr. of what I THOUGHT was 2400 from the can I'd poured the 231 in, behind a 240 gr. JHP. Those rounds LOOKED good, and I was already eating the venison I was going to gather with those shiny wonders.

Went to the range next day to check the sighting. First round kicked HARD! MUCH harder than normal, wrenching the gun's muzzle backward just barely over my head, and twisting violently as the lands rotated the bullet down the barrel, and inertia rotated the gun in response in my hand. The SOUND of the shot was abnormal, and seemed a bit "hollow" in addition to being louder than normal. GEEZ did that thing kick! I held on, though, a testimonial I guess to developing a good, firm grip.

Well, I took it down and held it horizontal with the left side facing me. Something just didn't look right, but I couldn't spot what it was ..... so I turned it over to the right side.

I nearly FAINTED! No joke! LITERALLY!

The right side of the cylinder under the hammer blew, from top dead center over, taking the adjoining cylinder with it. The remainder of the brass case was brazed solidly to the remaining sidewalls of the portion of the cylinder under the hammer that was left. The head of the case was firmly welded to the recoil shield. The top strap was buckled upward, and was cracked 2/3 of the way across at the thin part, where the square cutout is for the rear sight. The "bottom strap" of the frame was even bulged outward slightly, and THAT's a LOT of darn good, thick metal!

I was frozen with the realization of what I'd done, and just stood there gaping in disbelief. I honestly had no idea of what had caused the detonation at that time. I was, or so I thought, SURE that the load was 22.3 gr. of 2400. Only hours later, when the shock of it all began to subside, did I start thinking back, and remember loading that 231, and the 2400 can being empty. I hadn't bought any more 2400, so how did it get so full all of a sudden???? I may not be too bright, but .... well, even I could put 2 and 2 together, and deduce what I MUST have done. It was STILL some time before I could allow myself to believe I'd actually done it, though, but admit it I did. I HAD to. 2400 and 231 look nothing alike, and when I compared some 2400 from a friend's cache and my can of "2400" and then compared my can of "2400" to some 231, the mystery was forever solved, and most permanently at that. There could be NO doubt of what I'd done.

So boys, and especially you newer reloaders, don't think it can't happen to you. It CAN! And DOES!

This happened back in the late 70's, I believe it was, and to this day, it makes me shudder inside to think of it.

I PROMISE you, if you EVER blow a gun - ANY gun - you will NOT be ABLE to forget it, and it will govern your reloading for the rest of your life. Guar-on-teed!

Oh, and BTW, re the '03 - it ain't no slouch. I DID fire some '06 ammo donated to me from a buddy who died soon after. He'd warned me that some of them were "a bit hot," and I THOUGHT he meant "maximum." Boy did I get yet one MORE lesson about loading! I fired one in my all-original 1929 issue '03. It extracted without the least bit of extra pressure on the bolt, but upon that extraction and ejection, I saw the primer pop out into the magazine well. Nearly had to take the floorplate off to get it out. The primer pocket was probably about 32 caliber, if not larger! The case had split above the web, which accounted for the smoke coming from the action as I ejected the spent case.

That ain't trash, ye who berate the great '03. If you don't want one, GOOD! More for ME! I'll take all those POS's you want to send my way. I'll even spring for the shipping costs!
Am I a dirt road sport, or what? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The simple Truth, with a capital "T," is that ANY rifle can be blown, and depending on a M-7XX or Mk V or any other action to save yer dang bacon ain't too good a way to approach loading.

To this day, and for the rest of my life, I'll check and double check the APPEARANCE of the powder, as well as visually check the level of powder in the cases after they're charged and are sitting in the loading block.

Blowing that gun is also a reason I don't (yet, anyway) own a progressive press. If I ever DO get a progressive press, I'll almost surely stick to ball powders exclusively, or very small grained and easily poured powders, so that powder bridging in the measure is almost (?) impossible (as long as the powder's dry and in good shape - something I'd also watch for closely) in that type of setup.

Blowing a gun will just RUIN your image of your "immortality," and give rise to serious doubt about your being "bulletproof." Without those two, being "10 ft. tall" just loses some of its luster, too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As above, hope this keeps someone else from doing what I did. Otherwise, I'd NEVER tell on myself like this! NEVER!

Ken:
Your message is so great, that it deserves a response.

I do something very similar myself. Only the container of powder I'm using is out, labels on the measure, and powder trickler. and everything gets put away when done. Next time the same exact procedure.

I'm glad to know I'm in good company. Especially after hearing about how easy it is to mistakenly use the wrong powder.

Thanks again, Smitty of the North

Glad to read these posts as I was thinking about taking up the hobby. Will just stick to ordering off the internet when they run the specials on the factory stuff. Old age has its drawbacks and one is making more mistakes then the young bucks. I didn't get this old being foolish but just get these desires to do things I did not get to do when younger. Got a motor scooter in the garage that is fun but one of those things that could be the end if I make a mistake.

Blackwater-

Thanks for the story!

I too once contaminated one powder with another but caught the mistake within a few minutes. The lesson of double checking only cost me about $20. That was very cheap, considering.

For you non-handloaders: Maybe sometime I'll write about the 243 Win round I sent downrange from a 7mm Rem Mag rifle. Damn, she was a good looking women. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I have always made it a practice of ONLY ONE can of powder out at any one time. I'm sure this is a very good policy. Mixing powders can ruin your day!! Another hazard is in buying powders from an unknown source without verification of the product. I once bought several pounds of a very coarse grained extruded powder that was mixed with a very fine ball powder of some sort. The extruded powder was the right number, but the ball powder mixed in...who knows? I salvaged this lot by using a sieve that allowed the ball powder to pass, but held up the coarse extruded stuff. Obviously, someone had inadvertently dumped about � lb of the ball powder into the opened 8 pounder of the other powder. Here's a powder mixup experience a friend of mine had 20 years ago. He was loading 30-06 for himself and two of his buddies. Two of the rifles were 760 Remingtons, the other a 77 Tang safety Ruger bolt action. Noting an ad in the local rag selling some handloading tools, dies and components, he responded. The woman selling the stuff had lost her husband, and she was getting rid of all the firearms related items. My pal bought the works, and included were several tins of powder, some unopened, a couple had been opened. Noting a partial tin of 4320, a powder he was using in the 30-06, he simply added it to his powder supply. Later, in preparation for a hunt, he and his two sidekicks [No, I was not there!] went out to sight in. A few shots later, older ammo was expended, and they decided to try the new batch, loaded with the "IMR4320" he had bought. You can imagine the surprise when one guy touched off a round, and it blew the magazine clean out of the 760, broke the forestock and siezed the action tighter than a boar's a** in flytime! Turning to my pal, he says: "It's that stinking ammo you loaded" My pal, not being convinced, says: "No way, that gun must have had a flaw." Picking up his own 760, he loads a round, and aims it at the target and pulls the trigger. Real consternation strikes now, since the result is practically a repeat of what just happened to the other 760. So, he gathers up all the ammo, and heads for home to check for an overload, etc, etc. Pulling some down, he weighed the charges, but they were bang on. Realizing he must have some other powder in that can, he pulls the rest, and dumps all that powder down the toilet. It would be nice to say this was the end of story, but it's not. My bud bought a new rifle for his pal and himself, and vowed to never use powder if he was not absolutely sure of the identity. However, one of those loaded rounds got overlooked, and ended up in the third rifle a few weeks later. This Ruger suffered permanent damage as well, and My pal bought another rifle to replace that one. The real miracle is: none suffered any personal injuries save a few small abrasions from wood slivers from the broken stocks. No one knows what powder was in that 4320 tin, but it had to be a fast burning number [maybe 4227] Bt there is certainly a lesson in this: Be absolutely SURE of the powder you are using!! Regards, Eagleye.

I met a fellow some years back who showed me a Polaroid photo of small pieces of rifle d�bris laid-out on a blanket. The rifle had been a very nice SMLE, and he'd been a careless tyro handloader.

He'd bought IIRC eight cans of surplus 4831 from a gunsmith who bought it by the keg and parceled it out into canisters that he marked with "4831" on strips of masking tape.

The 'smith's mistake was that he filled all his empty canisters first, then put the strips of tape on 'em. In the last session, he'd unwittingly taped a fresh canister of Bullseye that he'd just bought, that happened to be on his loading bench behind the empty ones. That canister was among those that my friend bought as "4831."

My friend used the last powder from one canister of 4831 part-way through a loading session and opened another. He noticed � but ignored � that the second canister was sealed � that the odor from that canister was different � that the granules of that powder weren't the same size or shape of the 4831 that he'd just been loading.

So he filled his powder-measure with Bullseye and continued loading charges of the same volume as his earlier, relatively mild loads of 4831.

One piece of the action went through his windshield (he was shooting with a rest on the hood), ricocheted off the door post on the passenget side, and came out through the glass of the rear window on the driver's side.

.

Lets all face it guys.... Reloading is Murphys Law run amuck...

There are two kinds of reloaders...those that have made a mistake and those that are going to make a mistake. We all just hope and pray that when the times comes it is one of minor consequence.

I did mine... I was loading for a SUCKS 30-06 ADL and ran out of powder about 95% done of the number I was loading. I stopped loading..marked everything and got ready to hop in my truck until I recalled that every shop around me is closed on sundays. I was SOL I thought. Then a buddy of mine who also loads, called. I told him of my problem and he said hed be over in a few with some powder for me. I told him what I was using. I dont remember what it was now.

He shows up with about 4 ounces of powder in a glass jar. We shot the bull for a few. After he left, I got set back up and wnet to finishing my loads.

Next day at the range, I got all set up to shoot. The first round was from the box I had loaded with the powder given to me. The BOOM was thunderous to say the least. The reciever split from top to bottom..the stock was shattered...and the scope looked like a pot of gold should be at the end of it. I got darned lucky.

Lesson learned.... Unless I go and buy and UNOPENED conatiner of powder..I am NOT using it!

"Unless I go and buy and UNOPENED conatiner of powder..I am NOT using it!"

I agree! Last summer I was helping a buddy "refresh" his handloading. He had not done any for several years and wanted to get back into it. He had the bullets but needed the powder. We went to a local retailer and got a pound. When we got back, I opened the container and found that the seal was no longer attached. It was there but the bond was broken. I weighted the new powder and discovered that about 1/8th of a pound was missing. We took it back to the retailer and found out that someone had returned it saying it was the wrong powder. They replaced our pound with a new one with a good seal and put the other container back on the shelf. Holy $hit! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Varget for everything is looking better by the minute....wonder if it works in .40 SW <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I can't believe they took it back either time. I don't know of any retailer in this area that would do that.

A few years ago I asked for a pound of H4831SC (they keep it behind the counter), just to try the new stuff. I was yacking with the sales guy about something or other and never checked to see what he stuck in the bag. When I got home I discovered that it was H4198.

I drove back to the store to return it, not 30 minutes after I bought it, and they wouldn't take it back. I really don't blame them, since they have no control over anything I could have done to it after it left their shop.

It did turn out all right in the end, since I discovered that my old 223 really liked the stuff behind 40gr BT's.

Hi Jn316

My name is Bodvar Thorsteinsson and I live in Iceland. These pictures of yours of the rifle that has come apart are unbeliveable. The thing is that I am writing a book about hand -/reloading and my question is: Would you be willing to let me use one of these in my book? I think these are likely the best of the kind I have seen. Of course I would give you the full credit in the book as the owner of the photos. So if you are in on this I would need them in high enough res to print in a book. Would you be so kind to let me know? I think the minimum resolution for printing is 300-400 psi. Maybe in e-mail would do, or on a CD.

Hope to hear from you and thanks in advance,

best regards from Iceland
Bodvar Thorsteinsson
bodvar@barnaskolinn.is

Bodvar, I believe we can work something out. As long as this book is not anit-firearm or anti-reloading and the subject related to the photos is reloading safety. I'll sent an email and we can discuss details.