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Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,116 Likes: 8
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,116 Likes: 8 |
I know QL charge-to-velocity is not always accurate. No surprise with all the variables in guns and components.
I was looking at the QL calcs from the pressure-to-velocity correlations. That's how I use it nowadays. Then I ladder up over the chrono, stopping where chrono velocity correlates to the 60-62K pressure calc.
Anyway, sounds like you have tested results, where I'm just making conversation/speculation.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,512 |
Re: original ?, I think both are up to the task, when a good bullet is threaded thru vitals. Something not just any shooter can do, but many can learn w/practice, and an LRF, wind being your biggest hurdle perhaps.
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 22,737 |
Well, I'd sneak a little closer.
My home is the "sanctuary residence" for my firearms.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,827 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 19,827 Likes: 2 |
I know QL charge-to-velocity is not always accurate. No surprise with all the variables in guns and components.
I was looking at the QL calcs from the pressure-to-velocity correlations. That's how I use it nowadays. Then I ladder up over the chrono, stopping where chrono velocity correlates to the 60-62K pressure calc.
Anyway, sounds like you have tested results, where I'm just making conversation/speculation. Both of you always seem pretty solid.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
MontanaMarine,
That's generally how I use QL as well anymore, on the rare occasions I use it. I much prefer to use pressure-tested data, though!
In regards to the original question, the .270 will be capable of a little more muzzle velocity, which pretty much compensates for the difference in in BC out to 550.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 655
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 655 |
When working up loads for a 'wildcat' like 6.5-06, does one typically base pressure limits etc. on 'similar' cartridges with SAAMI specs? Such as the .25-06 or 270 Win in this instance?
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
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MontanaMarine,
That's generally how I use QL as well anymore, on the rare occasions I use it. I much prefer to use pressure-tested data, though!
In regards to the original question, the .270 will be capable of a little more muzzle velocity, which pretty much compensates for the difference in in BC out to 550. Hence the reason I sold a bunch of wildcats and loaded 500+ rounds of the Hornady 140 BTSP over 58 grains of H4831 SC for my 270 and just called it good. I wish I could shoot well enough that the difference at 500 yards would make a difference.....
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
deadkenny,
That's apparently the way Nosler and Hodgdon worked their loads up.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Another way to load for wildcats is to extrapolate from data for similar rounds. In this case, the .270 Winchester would be the easiest, since there's abundant data for 140-grain bullets. The laws of internal ballistics suggest that the 6.5/06 is capable of about 97.5% of the velocity of the .270 with the same bullet weights.
Most .270 data doesn't list 140-grain loads that get 3000 fps in a 24" barrel. Most list a top velocity of just under 3000 fps. Barnes, however, lists several loads that top 3000, the fastest 3050 (IMR4831), which translates to 2974 for the 6.5-06.
One faster possibility, though, is Accurate MagPro--though their data doesn't include a 140-grain bullet. With a 130 it lists 3234 and with a 150 a flat 3000 fps, which means that a 140 should get around 3100. That would work out to around 3025 in the 6.5-06.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Sep 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 19,116 Likes: 8 |
The 6.5-06 and 6.5-284 are pretty much ballistic twins based on bore and case volume. Load data should be pretty close.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,358 Likes: 1 |
In my 6.5-06, I am running RL22 and RL25 under 140 Berger vld bullets. On a wounded antelope buck at 530 yards laying prone and finishing it off before it made it under a fence, the berger did a perfect job and dropped it in its tracks. It was going to die from a buddies shot, just not fast enough.
On my doe at 498 yards, I dialed the cds and when she stopped to look back, the berger just slammed her down.
On my antelope buck at 220 yards, I clipped the back edge of the front shoulder, lost 2 pounds of meat and put him down in 5 yards.
On my mountain goat at 200 or so yards, it was dead right there with about half a front shoulder lost.
I cannot imagine telling a difference between the 270 or the 6.5-06 however I am completely sold on the speed and accuracy of the Leupold CDS system.
Got two more tags for plains deer in December and hope to have more results to post.
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Joined: Jul 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Yeah, that's what I decided after doing an article on both rounds, chambered in otherwise identical E.R. Shaw rifles. Case capacity was the same, as near as I could measure it with water, and ballistics were just about identical with the same powder charges and bullets as well--though each rifle slightly preferred different bullets and powders.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
moosemuncher,
What sort of accuracy are you getting?
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,358 Likes: 1 |
Using the 140 Vlds, I got 8 rounds in .6" at 100. At 550 still holding very close to half moa. That out of a 6.25 pound rifle with a #2 hart off bipods. The buck at 530 I am very proud of as that was prone with no sling or bipod, just had time to range, dial and shoot.
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,236 Likes: 29 |
Excellent! Thanks for the info.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,222 |
Great stuff gents...thanks for taking me to school I appreciate it
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,679 Likes: 47 |
The 243 is a wonderous 550yd+ chambering.
550yds is pretty close in................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3 |
Stick,
What are you loading in the 243 to reach out?
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,679 Likes: 47
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,679 Likes: 47 |
105 A-Max.
Their .505BC is real,as are the terminal affects. Rather sumptin'................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,474 Likes: 3 |
Any other load and rifle data?
I'm looking for a long range deer load....
“Live free or die. Death is not the worst of evils.” - General John Stark.
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