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#4680859 - 12/09/10 S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant ....  
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Thompson/Center Arms to close Rochester plant


Thursday, December 9, 2010



ROCHESTER ó Springfield, Mass-based Smith & Wesson Holding Corp is relocating its Thompson/Center Arms operations from Rochester, N.H., to its Springfield, Mass. facility, according to the City biz Real Estate website.

The site posted the news late Wednesday night.

Foster's Daily Democrat has learned the company bused its employees to a meeting at the Governor's Inn Restaurant around 4 p.m. Wednesday. At the meeting company representatives were reported to have said the Thompson/Center Arms facility would be closed over a period of about nine months.

The closure will effect approximately 250 employees, some who may be offered the opportunity to move the company's Springfield operation.

Foster's also learned over the next couple of weeks there will be meetings with employees to discuss severance issues and the possible relocation of some local workers to Springfield. Employees were also told the company was continuing to look for a buyer for the foundry at the Rochester facility.

According to its most recent annual report, the company owns three manufacturing facilities in its firearm division. Its principal facility is the 530,323-square-foot Springfield plant. It also owns a 38,115-square-foot plant in Houlton, Maine, and the 160,000-square-foot plant in Rochester.

The bulk of the $9 million of estimated cash outlays associated with the relocation will occur in the second half of 2011, and those outlays are expected to be recovered in approximately 24 months. The relocation is scheduled to commence in January 2011 and conclude by November 2011.

As a result of the relocation of its Thompson/Center Arms operations, Smith & Wesson expects to record future expense of approximately $6 million, consisting of approximately $3 million for personnel-related exit costs and approximately $3 million of other facility-related shutdown costs, including costs for moving and facility preparation.

The Springfield facility is primarily used to manufacture handguns and rifles; the Houlton facility is primarily used to manufacture handcuffs, restraints, .22-caliber pistols, metal center-fire pistols, and the Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols; and the Rochester facility is used primarily to produce hunting rifles, black powder firearms, interchangeable firearm systems, and long gun barrels.

The company also owns a 56,869-square-foot facility in Springfield that it uses for the Smith & Wesson Academy, a state-accredited firearm training institution, a public shooting facility, and a retail store; and a 6,000-square-foot retail facility in Rochester.

The company leases office and manufacturing space at four facilities in its perimeter security division. The facilities are all located within a quarter mile of each other in Franklin, Tenn. The total space leased is 61,509 square feet.

The company also leases 2,800 square feet of office space in Scottsdale, Ariz., which houses its investor relations department as well as offices for its board of directors, and 577 square feet of office space in Washington, D.C., which houses certain executive staff. Both of these leases expire on Dec. 31, 2010.

Smith & Wesson acquired Rochester, NH-based Thompson/Center Arms, Inc., a privately held, New Hampshire-based designer, manufacturer and marketer of hunting firearms, for $102 million in cash in 2006.



Last edited by GTP350; 12/09/10.
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#4682329 - 12/09/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: GTP350]  
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The recession had been extremely hard on the long gun industry especially the muzzle loading rifle market. The muzzle loading market IMO has peaked and only new technology in rifles and or lower priced rifles will continue to sell ML.

Doc

Last edited by Doctor_Encore; 12/09/10.
#4683958 - 12/10/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: doctor_Encore]  
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I wish they'd have moved to Tennessee, Alabama, or some other southern state.


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"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
#4684266 - 12/10/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: Swampman700]  
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We would love for S&W to move to Tennessee.

#4684702 - 12/10/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: doctor_Encore]  
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Originally Posted by Doctor_Encore
The recession had been extremely hard on the long gun industry especially the muzzle loading rifle market. The muzzle loading market IMO has peaked and only new technology in rifles and or lower priced rifles will continue to sell ML.

Doc



i dont know Doc . a whole lot of companies were having problems before the recession.
It costs a lot of money to come out with a new product . Especially if that product is completely new
A whole lot of these companies were just barely breaking even as it was

So in many cases the recession was just the straw that broke the camels back .

Personally the only thing that surprises me about this closer , is that it took so long .
Right after S&W bought out TC they had that news release that said they would discontinue much of the muzzle loading production , once inventory was sold off .
Then those statements were pulled .
But a whole lot of folks figured from day one that all S&W was after was the , name and the barrel making facilities .
Myself , I believe that once S&W fully assimilates TC into S&W production , you will see TC get closed down .. We might see some of the more popular center fire production be kept up . But past that S&W will run whats left of TC down the drain

I also think that the modern muzzle loading industry is fast going the same direction as the Traditional muzzle loading industry .
IE they semi custom and custom market will start up . while at the same time the mass production industry will become more importers, like Investment arms and CVA .
Possibly we may even see some Folks trying to market very cheep imports from India in the years to come .

thatís the only way your going to see lower prices . Which inevitably will also bring lower quality .
Simply put companies cannot produce at lower prices under our current system of regulations thatís been implemented over the last 30 or so years .

I sure would be nice if the market would grow considerably . Which would then allow mass production to drive the cost down . But I donít believe that will happen as we have for the most part accepted higher costs . The public pays those costs without even thinking .
Look at the modern muzzle loading projectile industry . As long as people are willing to pay outlandish prices , then the next evolution of products will only cost more..
But then its really a catch 22 because if people stop paying those prices then either production dries up OR the producers move to where they can manufacture cheaper . then they either turn around and sell it back here at the same cost or less . Thus forcing those companies still here in the US to compete ,move or shut down .

Now enter the evil head of inflation .
I can remember making custom muzzleloaders for around 500.00 . Today I can hardly even buy the parts for most rifles at that cost . Never mined making much of those parts myself only raises the price in my labor. Which for the most part a fella is lucky to get Ĺ of minimum wage making a semi custom gun .
It sure seems like itís a never ending spiral upwards .

I think we as consumers have to change out mindset if we are going to see US companies servive.
Only time will tell I guess .

Last edited by captchee; 12/10/10.

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#4686709 - 12/10/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: GTP350]  
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Originally Posted by GTP350
Thompson/Center Arms to close Rochester plant


Thursday, December 9, 2010



ROCHESTER ó Springfield, Mass-based Smith & Wesson Holding Corp is relocating its Thompson/Center Arms operations from Rochester, N.H., to its Springfield, Mass. facility, according to the City biz Real Estate website.

The site posted the news late Wednesday night.

Foster's Daily Democrat has learned the company bused its employees to a meeting at the Governor's Inn Restaurant around 4 p.m. Wednesday. At the meeting company representatives were reported to have said the Thompson/Center Arms facility would be closed over a period of about nine months.

The closure will effect approximately 250 employees, some who may be offered the opportunity to move the company's Springfield operation.

Foster's also learned over the next couple of weeks there will be meetings with employees to discuss severance issues and the possible relocation of some local workers to Springfield. Employees were also told the company was continuing to look for a buyer for the foundry at the Rochester facility.

According to its most recent annual report, the company owns three manufacturing facilities in its firearm division. Its principal facility is the 530,323-square-foot Springfield plant. It also owns a 38,115-square-foot plant in Houlton, Maine, and the 160,000-square-foot plant in Rochester.

The bulk of the $9 million of estimated cash outlays associated with the relocation will occur in the second half of 2011, and those outlays are expected to be recovered in approximately 24 months. The relocation is scheduled to commence in January 2011 and conclude by November 2011.

As a result of the relocation of its Thompson/Center Arms operations, Smith & Wesson expects to record future expense of approximately $6 million, consisting of approximately $3 million for personnel-related exit costs and approximately $3 million of other facility-related shutdown costs, including costs for moving and facility preparation.

The Springfield facility is primarily used to manufacture handguns and rifles; the Houlton facility is primarily used to manufacture handcuffs, restraints, .22-caliber pistols, metal center-fire pistols, and the Walther PPK and PPK/S pistols; and the Rochester facility is used primarily to produce hunting rifles, black powder firearms, interchangeable firearm systems, and long gun barrels.

The company also owns a 56,869-square-foot facility in Springfield that it uses for the Smith & Wesson Academy, a state-accredited firearm training institution, a public shooting facility, and a retail store; and a 6,000-square-foot retail facility in Rochester.

The company leases office and manufacturing space at four facilities in its perimeter security division. The facilities are all located within a quarter mile of each other in Franklin, Tenn. The total space leased is 61,509 square feet.

The company also leases 2,800 square feet of office space in Scottsdale, Ariz., which houses its investor relations department as well as offices for its board of directors, and 577 square feet of office space in Washington, D.C., which houses certain executive staff. Both of these leases expire on Dec. 31, 2010.

Smith & Wesson acquired Rochester, NH-based Thompson/Center Arms, Inc., a privately held, New Hampshire-based designer, manufacturer and marketer of hunting firearms, for $102 million in cash in 2006.




Low growth industry and the market is saturated main cause of the problem . Of course anytime one company is bought by another the only people to prosper are the CEO's,Bankers,Lawyers,Brokers and financial analysts. The people that did the actual grunt work get screwed, most times royally while the CEO is courted by even more companies. When we can find out how to not repeat this sell fullfilling stupidity company after company we will regain our Industrial base.


Hey Libtards how the fugg is that Russian Collusion coming along?
#4686927 - 12/10/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: Oldelkhunter]  
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The fact that foreign made muzzleloaders are being dumped on the US market for less than cost dosen't help. The average smoe thinks they are good stuff.


1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
#4686944 - 12/10/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: Swampman700]  
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Well, that just blows.



A wise man is frequently humbled.

#4688614 - 12/11/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: Swampman700]  
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Originally Posted by Swampman700
The fact that foreign made muzzleloaders are being dumped on the US market for less than cost dosen't help. The average smoe thinks they are good stuff.


I not sure what you mean by "dumped on the U.S market" but high U.S. labor costs and liability insurance does not make the domestic market very competitive.

Doc

#4688674 - 12/11/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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Originally Posted by captchee
Originally Posted by Doctor_Encore
The recession had been extremely hard on the long gun industry especially the muzzle loading rifle market. The muzzle loading market IMO has peaked and only new technology in rifles and or lower priced rifles will continue to sell ML.

Doc



i dont know Doc . a whole lot of companies were having problems before the recession.
It costs a lot of money to come out with a new product . Especially if that product is completely new
A whole lot of these companies were just barely breaking even as it was

So in many cases the recession was just the straw that broke the camels back .

Personally the only thing that surprises me about this closer , is that it took so long .
Right after S&W bought out TC they had that news release that said they would discontinue much of the muzzle loading production , once inventory was sold off .
Then those statements were pulled .
But a whole lot of folks figured from day one that all S&W was after was the , name and the barrel making facilities .
Myself , I believe that once S&W fully assimilates TC into S&W production , you will see TC get closed down .. We might see some of the more popular center fire production be kept up . But past that S&W will run whats left of TC down the drain

I also think that the modern muzzle loading industry is fast going the same direction as the Traditional muzzle loading industry .
IE they semi custom and custom market will start up . while at the same time the mass production industry will become more importers, like Investment arms and CVA .
Possibly we may even see some Folks trying to market very cheep imports from India in the years to come .

thatís the only way your going to see lower prices . Which inevitably will also bring lower quality .
Simply put companies cannot produce at lower prices under our current system of regulations thatís been implemented over the last 30 or so years .

I sure would be nice if the market would grow considerably . Which would then allow mass production to drive the cost down . But I donít believe that will happen as we have for the most part accepted higher costs . The public pays those costs without even thinking .
Look at the modern muzzle loading projectile industry . As long as people are willing to pay outlandish prices , then the next evolution of products will only cost more..
But then its really a catch 22 because if people stop paying those prices then either production dries up OR the producers move to where they can manufacture cheaper . then they either turn around and sell it back here at the same cost or less . Thus forcing those companies still here in the US to compete ,move or shut down .

Now enter the evil head of inflation .
I can remember making custom muzzleloaders for around 500.00 . Today I can hardly even buy the parts for most rifles at that cost . Never mined making much of those parts myself only raises the price in my labor. Which for the most part a fella is lucky to get Ĺ of minimum wage making a semi custom gun .
It sure seems like itís a never ending spiral upwards .

I think we as consumers have to change out mindset if we are going to see US companies servive.
Only time will tell I guess .



Captchee,

While the U.S. gun industry is contracting and consolidating into their parent companies ( Marlin move to N. Carolina & T/C ) S&W bought T/C because they were profitable and they had a 53% market share in the ML market. Unfortunately S&W bought T/C at the peak of of the market.

T/C as a company name is very safe, the strength of the name is far stronger than the present market conditions. When S&W bought T/C they needed T/C rifle barrel manufacturing capability and the foundry which makes non-firearms related products of which firearms product liability does not apply.

The post world War I firearms recession of 1919-1920 and of course the great depression devastated the domestic gun industry and 5 years from now we may not recognize the present gun industry as it once was.

Doc

Bravo

#4689138 - 12/11/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: doctor_Encore]  
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very true doc . only time will tell


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#4691759 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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Originally Posted by captchee
very true doc . only time will tell


The amount of money TC spent marketing their rifles is unparalleled and a lot of it was TV money. Someone eventually paid for that.


Hey Libtards how the fugg is that Russian Collusion coming along?
#4691854 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: Oldelkhunter]  
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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by captchee
very true doc . only time will tell


The amount of money TC spent marketing their rifles is unparalleled and a lot of it was TV money. Someone eventually paid for that.


which means what ?
Gm spent billions in marketing some of their products as well . has that stopped them from discontinuing given lines .
A company can spend a whole lot of money on marketing . But when a given level is reached where the total cost to the company exceeds the value of return achieved by a product .
What happens ?

As I said and doc reiterated . S&W did not want TC for it being TC . It wanted is name and some of it manufacturing business.
By having the name , they can carry on manufacturing of the money making lines .
As doc stated . S&W basically wanted the TC barrel and casting making facilities.
The rest was just frosting on the cake .
If that frosting becomes non valuable to S&W . they will replace it .


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#4693678 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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well pontiac, saturn, hummer are no longer made. We know how proud GM was of the hummer and their tv commercials.

#4694417 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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Originally Posted by captchee
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by captchee
very true doc . only time will tell


The amount of money TC spent marketing their rifles is unparalleled and a lot of it was TV money. Someone eventually paid for that.


which means what ?
Gm spent billions in marketing some of their products as well . has that stopped them from discontinuing given lines .
A company can spend a whole lot of money on marketing . But when a given level is reached where the total cost to the company exceeds the value of return achieved by a product .
What happens ?

As I said and doc reiterated . S&W did not want TC for it being TC . It wanted is name and some of it manufacturing business.
By having the name , they can carry on manufacturing of the money making lines .
As doc stated . S&W basically wanted the TC barrel and casting making facilities.
The rest was just frosting on the cake .
If that frosting becomes non valuable to S&W . they will replace it .



Part of the reason TC's are priced where they are is because of the amount of money spent on TV advertisements and seemingly hundreds of hunting show sponsorships. It is pretty easy to undercut an overpriced 800+ dollar muzzleloader.


Hey Libtards how the fugg is that Russian Collusion coming along?
#4694515 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: Oldelkhunter]  
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sorry i still donít follow you .
TC have never been 800+ dollars. if your paying that , your getting suckered .
well unless your looking at something with a 300+ scope on it ????
but again ithink i covered that as paying more then its worth ???? but to each his own .
I can remember when CVA was selling rifles at near the same price as TC .
And while CVA is still around so is TC though how much longer is questionable at best .
Where is knight ? Where is Remington ?
Lets not forget TC has out lasted Remington in two markets in two different decades

If your insinuating customs . Well 800 is pretty low ball price .
Not to mention that market will be around long after the rest are just memories .
So again I guess im just missing your point

Last edited by captchee; 12/12/10.

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#4694542 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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Actually quite a good # of tc's inlines run high. $800 for a prohunter isnt unheard of. I forget the other one thats high priced.

Hell the Hawken runs $650 at the cheapest place i could find.

#4694581 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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Originally Posted by captchee
sorry i still donít follow you .
TC have never been 800+ dollars. if your paying that , your getting suckered .
well unless your looking at something with a 300+ scope on it ????
but again ithink i covered that as paying more then its worth ???? but to each his own .
I can remember when CVA was selling rifles at near the same price as TC .
And while CVA is still around so is TC though how much longer is questionable at best .
Where is knight ? Where is Remington ?
Lets not forget TC has out lasted Remington in two markets in two different decades

If your insinuating customs . Well 800 is pretty low ball price .
Not to mention that market will be around long after the rest are just memories .
So again I guess im just missing your point


Prohunter,Endeavor are over 800+ tax at most outlets. The rest of their muzzleloaders are higher priced then the competition. The Icon is priced higher then a competitive Remington,Winchester,Ruger with the same features. They had a 150 dollar rebate on the ICON last year alone to move them. Remington and Knight are not real good examples of well run companies, nice products ...spent a ton on marketing and didn't pump money back into the company .


Hey Libtards how the fugg is that Russian Collusion coming along?
#4694979 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: bigblock455]  
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Originally Posted by bigblock455
Actually quite a good # of tc's inlines run high. $800 for a prohunter isnt unheard of. I forget the other one thats high priced.

Hell the Hawken runs $650 at the cheapest place i could find.

really big block ? guess that shows how long ist been since i looked at buying at TC .


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#4695181 - 12/12/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: captchee]  
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i found a website selling tc hawkens for $795! Talk about the company taking a few hundred extra bucks!

#4695749 - 12/13/10 Re: S&W to close Thompson/Center Arms Rochester plant .... [Re: bigblock455]  
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i stand corrected Oldelkhunter . a 800 dollar TC better be a darn good one .

Businesses fail though for many different reasons.
A company can market a good product . But if they do not sell enough of that product to support the way the company is run . Well then the company goes under .
Even well run companies can go under if the product price is to high .
Remington though , has played this game before and cut and run then .
Same with Ithaca and Winchester .
They were smart enough to get in and get out once a decline was seen

Originally Posted by bigblock455
i found a website selling tc hawkens for $795! Talk about the company taking a few hundred extra bucks!



This morning I did a quick check on the cost of an encore. . Not that I wanted to buy one . I just wanted to see what they were running .
Scoped . They are at some places pushing the 7-800 as well .
While I sit here in total disbelief . I gotta at the same time shrug and saw ; if people are willing to pay then so be it .
Then I did a quick look for the TC hawkens rifles both kit and finished .
I was amazed to see that a couple places were indeed trying to get away with selling the flint model at the 7-800 mark . But there were also far more places still selling the caplocks at around 300- 350 and the kits 250-300 . So im thinking at least concerning that rifle . If your paying 7-800 , you just didnít look around


But at the same time . Im wondering if this isnít just a way for S&W to proclaim that the economy was the main reason for their loss of sales . Thus take a bigger write off loss ..
Not saying thatís the case . Im just thinking out loud .

On the other side . big block , have you taken a look at buying even a traditional Pedersoli model as of late ? Boy you want sticker shock . thatís the place to go .

interesting times we live in thats for sure

Last edited by captchee; 12/13/10.

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