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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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I've used even some really cheap porros quite a bit in rain and snow, and never had them leak internally in any way.
Even a cheap Nikon Action 7x35 opens a lot of eyes, compared to many roofs, at a fraction of the cost.
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Really not a valid argument anymore-5 years ago yes but not now.
The best roofs have surpassed the E series.
THe Zeiss FL with the abbe konig prisms is brighter and sharper in its sweet spot.
The Swarovision exceeds the view of the E and is probibly just as bright.
The new SLC HD is probibly better (yet to test it).
My Leica trinovid BN 10x50 I used to have was a better 10x to my eyes than the SE.
All binos listed are waterproof and probibly more durable than the SE.
Not to put the SE down- it can't be beat for the price.
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Joined: Jul 2009
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Had a pair of the older Nikon Superior E's in 7X35. Beautiful view but the end caps were plastic and as noted they were not water proofed at all. Fine for birding in good weather but not rough and ready hunting use.
Had several different pairs of Swarovski SL series, those were the Swaro porros and they were great. Pretty weird looking and kind of heavy but great porros.
Burris (probably actually Pentax) made a Fullfield porro model in the 90's that was waterproof and armored. The 7X35 model was an excellent buy in a good, really useful hunting binocular for just over $200. I carried one of those for a couple of years and wish I still had it. The 10X50 version of the same model didn't have good enough glass to support that much power, but the 7X35's were great.
Got a set of Swaro Traditional 6X30's that are supposed to be waterproof and they go with me everywhere. Have a Leica 8X40 and an 8X32 but they are heavier and the view from the Swaro is wider with huge depth of focus.
Swaro Military models (if they still make them) are an excellent buy in a waterproof, armored porro.
With phase coating roofs will give you resolution as good as porros in a smaller package (not that much smaller, but still smaller) but I still prefer porros. Jim: You are right, the premium Nikon porros are very good. The 7x35 you had was the original Nikon E, the Birdwatcher. The Nikon SE series, was and is still available in the 8x32, 10x42 and 12x50. They are still being made, but in small quantities, and available at some of the internet merchants. These are fully rubber armored, well aclaimed as having optics to match anything available, even today. Great value and a good choice for those who want the very best. I have had all of the SE's and the 8x32 SE is the one binocular that I own, that I will always keep.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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Doug at Cameraland NY, our sponsor here, has a sleeper in his Minox sale right now - the Minox BD10X44BP at $199, original MSRP $599! I am a fan or porro binoculars for all the reasons seen in this thread and in other places - and for what my eyes tell me. I bought the 8X and 10X Minox BP's from Doug back when they were a lot more money - and if I did not still have them I'd be buying at least one more of the BD10X44BP... http://www.cameralandny.com/optics/minox.pl?page=62151Friends bought the BP at Doug's original discontinued price - $279 - as did I - and are more than pleased with their performance. Shoot - I may just call Doug right now...before they are all gone. BTW - the BP's are so good that I sold my Leica 10X42 Trinovids and do not miss them. Check them out - all of the advantages of roof other than physical size.
Roger
NRA Life
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Well, here is what happened to me. I bought some 8X30 slc neu's thinking they would be the 'stuff'. I already had a set of ProMaster Elite ED 8X42 for half the price, but wanted the 'swarovski' experience. My wife (who has no clue about name brand) told me I like 'these' better (holding my promasters). I then took them to a buddy's deer camp and a couple folks looked thru both. Swaro first and all were like 'ahh' nice view. They then picked up my 'cheap' pair and said 'what the $##@!' these have a much clearer, sharper and better contrast of view......'where did you get these?'. While the Promaster's weigh 7 ozs more and a little more bulky, the SLC's definitely not worth the price. Promaster also has a lifetime warranty.......tough to beat.
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Joined: Nov 2007
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I would think the lack of full waterproofing would be a deal killer for those that are only going to buy one good pair binoculars. For me I own both a super fine 8x42 Leica Ultravid along with an 8x32 SE and a 10x42SE. I have all three lined up on a table in my living room. We have lots of wildlife right outside our window, deer, elk, turkeys, bald eagles feeding on a dead elk calf the other days, plus great scenery, so I use them all a lot.
The 8x32SEs are my favorite by far. I love the ergonomics with my fairly small hands, and the view is superb. I live in Montana where hunting in the rain is rare, usually it's snow or clear, so the 8x32SEs get the go 80% of the time, if the weather looks iffy, I leave them in the truck and carry the Ultravids.
John
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To clairify, my SE and my Ultravid are pretty equal optically, I prefer both to the new Swarovision and Zeiss FL, but those kind of comparisons are personal. Others may like the edge to edge sharpness of the Swaro and not notice the rolling ball effect.
Where I find the SE perfect is the fit in the hand and overall balance of optical features, bright, sharp, contrasty, neutral color and of course that 3D porro view. Some people have blackouts with them. To the original question; if you can live without total waterproofing and don't suffer from blackouts, I believe that for $400-$500.00 you will have all or 98% the optics of any $2,000.00 bino around.
John
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Joined: Dec 2004
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waterproof means they can be submerged.
Water resistant means they can be in the shower.
Has anyone actually seen a pair of water resistant binos get water in them while using them? I would rather have waterproof. But it does not seem rational that would be a deal breaker.
Speak life
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Campfire Ranger
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Is it time for a dumb queston yet? I think so.
If one uses the 8X32 SE will he be able to resolve the same detail he might with say a 10X Pentax?
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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Campfire Ranger
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Is it time for a dumb queston yet? I think so.
If one uses the 8X32 SE will he be able to resolve the same detail he might with say a 10X Pentax? A Pentax SP in 8x43 or 10x43 will show you everything the SE will for big game hunting. I have the SP 10x43 and it's great, the Pentax ED even better, and on par with the best of the best.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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waterproof means they can be submerged.
Water resistant means they can be in the shower.
Has anyone actually seen a pair of water resistant binos get water in them while using them? I would rather have waterproof. But it does not seem rational that would be a deal breaker.
Why take a chance at the "moment of truth"? Not me.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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waterproof means they can be submerged.
Water resistant means they can be in the shower.
Has anyone actually seen a pair of water resistant binos get water in them while using them? I would rather have waterproof. But it does not seem rational that would be a deal breaker.
Why take a chance at the "moment of truth"? Not me. You might be right, JGRaider. I am just a bit skeptical this is relevant variable. Lots of stories of water resistant porros working in extreme conditions. Where are the failures?
Speak life
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I used my non-waterproof Leitz Trinovid 7x35s for many years in all kinds of weather without any issues whatsoever, though I never dunked them in a stream or lake. I guess the question is, is the dunkability issue worth an extra $1,000 to $1,500.00?
Of course you could buy a pair of Zen Ray EDIIs and have great optics in a waterproof package for less than the cost of a pair of SEs.
John
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Tracker
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I talked to Doug today about a pair of basically truck binos, 10x as my hunting binos are either 7x42 zeiss fl's or 6.5x32 minos if's. I was seriously considering the vortex 10x32's that are on close out but also asked about the 10x44bp minox. Doug had no problem saying the minox was the pait to buy, so I did. I will report when I get them.
MOLON LABE
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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I, too, am a bit skeptical about how much "waterproofness" is really necessary. If I ever get a pair of the Nikon SE's, I might just video myself jumping into the swimming pool with them to see if they can make the cut. I'll post it here for all to see, regardless of the outcome. waterproof means they can be submerged.
Water resistant means they can be in the shower.
Has anyone actually seen a pair of water resistant binos get water in them while using them? I would rather have waterproof. But it does not seem rational that would be a deal breaker.
Why take a chance at the "moment of truth"? Not me. You might be right, JGRaider. I am just a bit skeptical this is relevant variable. Lots of stories of water resistant porros working in extreme conditions. Where are the failures?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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+1 Make mine SE's in 6x, or 7x and I'll buy the porro's. Just because...... 
Don Buckbee
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