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Gee someone is telling us that GLOCKS are not a Super Star~!!!
Well, how about this for starters my dear sir. How many Glocks are used today by the police force of all the countries in the world? Then you can look up just how many Glocks have been sold world wide and those that are in use as I type this post.
Now how many of those pistols have had a problem with a JAM or Breakage? I'll tell you that statistic, less than 1/2 of 1-percent. Hells Bells, now that is a better record than if you purchased a Rolls Royce Automobile.
Thank Our Veterans!
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Campfire Regular
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Popularity is not synonymous with quality... especially with guns.
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Guy named Chuck Taylor was a Glockophile from the get-go. He shot them competitively. Chuck's a guy who's killed some people with handguns. One day he decided to try the Springfield XD. For the first time in his competition life, he shot a perfect score. I've shot them both. The Glock feels funny to me.
Just saying.
I think the Glock most appeals to people who had little practical handgun experience before they were introduced to the Glock.
Dan
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
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Glock was designed by a mainly non gun person. And sold at a great price to LE. He was a great salesman. Cops with Glocks was a brillant move.
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1911s jam. Yup. What brand and has it been reworked.
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One poster had seen hundreds of thousands of rounds in training. Nice clean organized training.
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OP had Sigs and HKs jam. Any gun made that CAN'T jam.
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If you love Glocks ........fine. Some folks like Polyester Jumpsuits in Colors-Not-Found-In-Nature......fine.
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My cousin is in LE and loves his glock. But he never bashed me for liking a 1911 or HP better.
Best friend shoots a Glock, loved it from the first shot and is deadly.fine.
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But if the only way to extole a Glock is to deride all others????????
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Who do you think you are fooling?????
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"What is good and what is not good, need we ask this of others?"
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Or perhaps the OP meant "glocks just work" just barely? Just meaning no adjectives used?
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Rant over, Mongo sorry.......
Last edited by 257_X_50; 12/27/10.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You start by saying this: My personal duty gun and Glock 27 have both mlfunctioned one time apiece. Then you say this: I had two 1911's that never malfunctioned but I just could not rely on them having seen so many 1911's fail. It was always in the back of my mind that anytime they would quit working. I have never had that feeling with a glock. Am I the only one who's scratching his head on Dink's carry choice? When you see a gun fail, you need to understand, that�s a sampling of ONE, and not an indictment of the entire batch of any given pistol. Now me personally, I�ve seen more Glocks fail than 1911�s, but I�ve seen a bunch of 1911�s fail also. Usually, both the Glocks and 1911�s I see that have failed are ones that someone has �customized� or �improved� in some way or another. So it�s hard to fault the entire line of pistols for one or two that someone has home gunsmithed. All manufacturers have lemons. If you follow Glocks closely you�d know there are a bunch of departments who have dumped the Glock because of failures. Many of these were factory stock guns, not messed with. Now does that mean a Glock is a bad gun? I certainly don�t think so. To me it means that Glock has a whole lot more guns in service than anyone else and you�re more likely to encounter Glocks with problems. Roll the clock back 25-30 years ago and S&W was the Law Enforcement whipping boy. There were a lot of LE agencies that dumped S&W revolvers for various failures; the same S&W revolvers that many here on this forum would trust their lives to, and would claim are the highest quality revolvers in the world. Again, when you make a jillion of them and they�re used everywhere in LE service, you�re going to encounter �bad� guns. It�s not the entirety of the gun line, it�s just samplings of one (or two). So you had a couple of 1911�s that worked flawlessly�The same design that has the best service record of any military pistol ever built. But because you saw someone else�s fail, under some conditions that you�re probably unaware of (as in, you don�t know why they failed), you�re unwilling to trust your life to it. Yet, despite all the well documented failings of Glocks, along with failures in your personal pistols, you trust your life to the Glock�I don�t get that? Why is it you�re willing to overlook failures in Glocks, but not overlook failures in the 1911? (Are you just unaware of Glock issues?)
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Welcome back Kevin;
I saw the"1911 never failed and the glock did so I carry a Glock". Some things you don't bother to question.
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Its like milk you KNOW is bad. You may smell it once, but you learn to sort.
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Like Polyester Jump Suits in Colors-Not-Found-In-Nature and posts from Oprah..............
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Good to see you back.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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You start by saying this: My personal duty gun and Glock 27 have both mlfunctioned one time apiece. Then you say this: I had two 1911's that never malfunctioned but I just could not rely on them having seen so many 1911's fail. It was always in the back of my mind that anytime they would quit working. I have never had that feeling with a glock. Am I the only one who's scratching his head on Dink's carry choice? When you see a gun fail, you need to understand, that�s a sampling of ONE, and not an indictment of the entire batch of any given pistol. Now me personally, I�ve seen more Glocks fail than 1911�s, but I�ve seen a bunch of 1911�s fail also. Usually, both the Glocks and 1911�s I see that have failed are ones that someone has �customized� or �improved� in some way or another. So it�s hard to fault the entire line of pistols for one or two that someone has home gunsmithed. All manufacturers have lemons. If you follow Glocks closely you�d know there are a bunch of departments who have dumped the Glock because of failures. Many of these were factory stock guns, not messed with. Now does that mean a Glock is a bad gun? I certainly don�t think so. To me it means that Glock has a whole lot more guns in service than anyone else and you�re more likely to encounter Glocks with problems. Roll the clock back 25-30 years ago and S&W was the Law Enforcement whipping boy. There were a lot of LE agencies that dumped S&W revolvers for various failures; the same S&W revolvers that many here on this forum would trust their lives to, and would claim are the highest quality revolvers in the world. Again, when you make a jillion of them and they�re used everywhere in LE service, you�re going to encounter �bad� guns. It�s not the entirety of the gun line, it�s just samplings of one (or two). So you had a couple of 1911�s that worked flawlessly�The same design that has the best service record of any military pistol ever built. But because you saw someone else�s fail, under some conditions that you�re probably unaware of (as in, you don�t know why they failed), you�re unwilling to trust your life to it. Yet, despite all the well documented failings of Glocks, along with failures in your personal pistols, you trust your life to the Glock�I don�t get that? Why is it you�re willing to overlook failures in Glocks, but not overlook failures in the 1911? (Are you just unaware of Glock issues?) Well said, Kevin.
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Campfire Ranger
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Well said Kevin. I'd simply add that anyone who thinks any handgun is going to be 100% reliable under field comnditions doesn't have as much experience with handguns under much in the way of field conditions as he thinks he does.
I've seen lots of handguns used under some pretty rough field conditions. I've never seen one that would hold up under all of them.
What you need to understand is what to look for and avoid or how to deal with these problems if they come up.
For example, don't drop your favorite DA revolver on a concrete sidewalk and expect it to work when you pick it. Half the time, they don't.
Don't use your Glock as a club. If you want that option, go with a 1911 or a Browning HP.
Don't use casually reloaded, lead SWC handloads in your 1911 for those kinds of shooting where reliability is paramount.
Last of all, learn how to clear jams from your favorite while in a hurry. E
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Campfire Outfitter
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Ain't marketing a hoot?
I bet a lot of the perception that Glocks are more reliable than 1911s comes as a result of the fact that more 1911s get tinkered with (whether they need it or not) than Glocks.
I can understand DINK's reluctance though. If most of his brothers are using Glocks with good results but the ones who used 1911s had problems, he may question his own 1911 experience as nothing more than good luck. I perceive him as one who has little faith in luck and more in statistics (that he is privy to). I think he could work past that by learning more about the mechanics of the gun, but he isn't interested.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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Campfire Ranger
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FreeMe -
Yeah, it does look like he's taking the statistical route. I was trying to point out that if he's taking the statistical route, he apparently doesn't know what the REAL statistics are. Still, there's nothing wrong with a Glock, it's a good gun. I see nothing wrong with his destination; i just question the route he took to get there.
E -
Very good point, they're all boud to fail at some point. Makes sense to understand what makes yours fail, and even more importantly (as you so wisely point out) how to get it back into service in a hurry.
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Campfire Sage
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I bet a lot of the perception that Glocks are more reliable than 1911s comes as a result of the fact that more 1911s get tinkered with (whether they need it or not) than Glocks. Not only that. A Glock is a Glock is a Glock. All made by the same folks. Mags made by the same folks who make the guns. All parts made and fitted in-house. That cannot be said about "the 1911," but when you find a 1911 that works right (among the many dozens of makers) charged with mags of the right make and design for it, all the parts correctly selected and properly fitted, then you have a handgun that works about as well as any Glock. This is not because the Glock design is that much more reliable, if at all, but because Glock is a 100% in-house operation, producing one product (in various calibers and proportions), with all the parts made by that one company, while "a 1911" refers to a general design that's made by dozens of companies using dozens of different mags and dozens of different parts makers.
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Campfire Ranger
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Hawk,
You make a good point, but following that logic, the best 1911 would be a Taurus, since they're the only 1911 maker that makes 100% of their 1911's in-house.
It�s the design of the Glock that lends itself to the reliability it gets, not that it�s all 100% made by Glock (although that certainly doesn�t hurt). The Glock is a very slick design that lends itself to simple yet very precise manufacture; that�s one of the geniuses of the design. The 1911 on the other hand usually benefits greatly from hand fitting; a limitation of the age in which it was designed. Still, modern manufacturing has actually compensated quite well for the limitations of the 1911 design (manufacturing speaking of course), and most of the mass produced 1911�s are pretty darned good pistols. While I may have made some subtle changes to my S&W M1911PD, I haven�t done anything to it functionally, and for the past 7 years it has remained flawless, not one malfunction.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Are you suggesting that Baer forges his own frames? Machines them to final spec. Forges and finish machines all the internal parts, makes his own springs, pins, etc? Taurus is the only firearm manufcature of 1911's that I'm aware of that actually makes 100% of the gun in house. Most makers of 1911's don't make a single part in house, but rather assemble parts that are out-sourced to a jobber to their specification. Nothing wrong with that at all.
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Campfire Tracker
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You start by saying this: My personal duty gun and Glock 27 have both mlfunctioned one time apiece. Then you say this: I had two 1911's that never malfunctioned but I just could not rely on them having seen so many 1911's fail. It was always in the back of my mind that anytime they would quit working. I have never had that feeling with a glock. Am I the only one who's scratching his head on Dink's carry choice? When you see a gun fail, you need to understand, that�s a sampling of ONE, and not an indictment of the entire batch of any given pistol. Now me personally, I�ve seen more Glocks fail than 1911�s, but I�ve seen a bunch of 1911�s fail also. Usually, both the Glocks and 1911�s I see that have failed are ones that someone has �customized� or �improved� in some way or another. So it�s hard to fault the entire line of pistols for one or two that someone has home gunsmithed. All manufacturers have lemons. If you follow Glocks closely you�d know there are a bunch of departments who have dumped the Glock because of failures. Many of these were factory stock guns, not messed with. Now does that mean a Glock is a bad gun? I certainly don�t think so. To me it means that Glock has a whole lot more guns in service than anyone else and you�re more likely to encounter Glocks with problems. Roll the clock back 25-30 years ago and S&W was the Law Enforcement whipping boy. There were a lot of LE agencies that dumped S&W revolvers for various failures; the same S&W revolvers that many here on this forum would trust their lives to, and would claim are the highest quality revolvers in the world. Again, when you make a jillion of them and they�re used everywhere in LE service, you�re going to encounter �bad� guns. It�s not the entirety of the gun line, it�s just samplings of one (or two). So you had a couple of 1911�s that worked flawlessly�The same design that has the best service record of any military pistol ever built. But because you saw someone else�s fail, under some conditions that you�re probably unaware of (as in, you don�t know why they failed), you�re unwilling to trust your life to it. Yet, despite all the well documented failings of Glocks, along with failures in your personal pistols, you trust your life to the Glock�I don�t get that? Why is it you�re willing to overlook failures in Glocks, but not overlook failures in the 1911? (Are you just unaware of Glock issues?) Kevin, It has to do with the number of rounds I have personally put through a glock and seen put through a glock. If I would have shot a 1911 40,000 times do you think I would have seen it fail? I do. I have also only seen a glock malfunction one time and then carry on. I have seen 1911's start jamming and refuse to stop until they were taken apart and cleaned/lubed. I have not seen anywhere near as many 1911's shot but have seen alot more of them stop working. About 15 of us were shooting a couple months ago and there were six or eight 1911's there. Every 1911 malfunctioned at some point. Stove pipe, failure to feed, double feeds, etc. The brands represented were rock island, springield (both GI's and Loaded) and colt. I am sure some of the failures were cleaning and magazine related but surely not all. There was one glock that jammed also while shooting. Go to a IDPA match and watch and see which pistols stop running. I have and guess what one I have seen quit the most. 1911. My buddy has a XD in 40 that refused to shoot silver bear ammo. The glocks never malfunctioned with it. I would never even try to run that kind of ammo through a 1911. I don't think it will cycle very long. The first thing people ask about your 1911 is "have you had it worked on." Why should you buy a pistol that cost around a 1k dollars and have to have it worked on? I know anyone can put out a bad pistol and I sure glock has too. I have never seen one though. I think very highly of SIG pistols but a friend of mine had one in 357 sig that jammed every other shot. It went back to the fatory three or four times and still jammed every other shot when he traded it. I do think I was lucky with the two 1911's I owned. They both worked and the only thing I done to them was use wilson mags. It was always in the back of mind though that they would start jamming. I carry a gun everyday of my life and do not have time to worry if a 1911 is perfectly clean and lubed. I really like the 1911 but just can not depend on it everyday. Dink
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Campfire Sage
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Hawk,
You make a good point, but following that logic, the best 1911 would be a Taurus, since they're the only 1911 maker that makes 100% of their 1911's in-house. That would depend purely on their quality.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I've never had a malfunction with my glocks, a 23, a 29 and a 19. I know that they will work, every time. I can't say that for HK, Kimber, S&W, Sig or FN.
I've seen Glocks malf. I've seen HKs malf. I've seen Sigs malf. Personally, I hate Glocks. It has nothing to do with reliability or make. They don't fit me. Full stop, end of story in my book. The Sig 229 that rides my hip daily, however, fits me like a glove. I'm not sure what the round count is but it has never malfunctioned. Glocks just work, yep. So do Sigs. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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As far as the Smith M&P goes, Kentucky DF&W is carrying M&P .40s right now, but are switching to Glocks this summer. They are having a LOT of problems with their new! pistols, and are switching to Glocks because of it. I suspect they wish they'd kept their 4566s, though the trend to .40 is clear enough.
Locally, the M&P is getting a bad name. Glocks are distributed here by a local purveyor of cop equipment, and they are excellent salespeople, along with Glock's habit of selling dirt cheap to any new customers currently using Smiths. They flat-out hunt Smith-using departments and cut them a deal they can't refuse.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
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As far as the Smith M&P goes, Kentucky DF&W is carrying M&P .40s right now, but are switching to Glocks this summer. They are having a LOT of problems with their new! pistols
Locally, the M&P is getting a bad name. First I've heard of this. A friend was given two S&W M&P's years ago by S&W, a 4" and a 5". He's put 35K rounds through the 4". He regularly shoots in the 110's on a Rogers' Range and has shot a 123, and usually uses the M&P when he can. He is also an excellent 1911 gunsmith. He really likes the M&P's, mainly because he has yet to have a single malfunction with one. The 35K pistol still has the original trigger and recoil springs. As for Glocks, the grip does suck, but that can be changed by Robar and Lone Wolf, or you can read the tech article at Brownell's and DIY. I've done two. My G17 and G19 have a 1911 grip angle.
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"But if the only way to extole a Glock is to deride all others????????
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Who do you think you are fooling?????"
Are you referring to my post? If so point out the derision.
Dan
"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
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