...The thing with Glock, that puts them out of sorts with the more analytical mined, is the advertisement of "perfection". This predisposes such mined individuals to prove that they are not so, and estabilishes a bias againt them from the get-go.
That's not it at all. It is the silly ass Glock-o-phile bullsheet that pops up everytime a conversation begins about how superior Glock is to all other handguns for any and all purposes and how depressingly stupid it would be to carry anything less than a Glock. It is quite evident in this very thread how some feel the Glock somehow never needs maintenance, never malfunctions, never breaks, can withstand punishment a 100 pound stainless steel anvil could not, ect. blah, blah. These same people endlessly spout the party line refusing to acknowledge or listen to any other opinion or facts regarding anything that might upset their belief in the infallible Glock. Most of that is based simply upon what they have read or watched on YouTube with no regard to the credibility of the source and/or in which they have no real personal training or experience. They just keep parroting the same rehearsed lines over and over with no conscious thought applied to seeking a sensible medium. IMHO this is what inspires and fuels much of the anti-Glock argument.
Are the 1911 fans any less ardent? Or the "relvolver" fans? (Though none have shown up in this particular thread).
You make the point. If one takes "perfection" (you use infallibil) out of the conversation on both sides, then a reasonable discussion can occur.
There are just some things that cannot be substanciated--perfect, always, never, the best, ect.
... Its hard enough to get guys to qualify with a glock I can't imagine what would happen if they had a thumb safety to mess with and have to clean thier guns more than once a year.
Dink
That is a weapon problem or a people problem? Because of a lack of dedicated training, laziness, and pure economics coupled with aggressive marketing and hyperbole we now have "Weapons for Dummies - the Glock!" BTW, there are quite a few LE agencies that issue 1911's and do quite well with them.
It is a people problem. Alot of new guys have never fired a gun before entering the academy. My new guy has a four year degree but knows nothing about firearms and has no desire to learn.
There are a few departments that issue the 1911. From what I read they train alot with those guns with some qualifying monthly or every other month. That kind of dedication to firearms training is just not going to fly in most departments. Its to costly.
I got guys that been cops alot longer than I have that forget how to load a shotgun or AR between qualifications. Guns don't interest these guys and never will. I can't imagine with qualifying twice a year trying to get guys to remember to use a thumb safety. I just don't think the majority of police officers will get it.
RufusG.......Well pal I have never been known to not toe the mark or answer the bell, just so you know understand. Now I have owned and shot model 1911 model pistols since the late 1960's and in competition too I might add.
I have never been a fan of the Ugly Plastic pistols and the Bull Crap of me not knowing what I am speaking about is udder BS and I need not wave a flag about that fact. The Glock pistols is what it is, one tuff plastic pistol, that does what the manufacture said it would do......Fire any type ammo and NOT JAM under a broad spectrum of circumstances.
The Glock pistol, has been subjected to many testing situations, that would put many other type pistols in the "YOU LOOSE" catagory simply put. This testing has been going on for years and many just seem to close their eyes to the reality of true facts!!! These facts have been documented to say the least and are no big secret. To hammer someone who has spent the money to test this pistol and show those negetive people to the GLOCK pistols attributes, is once again a ride down a dead end street people. This pistol has proved all over the world and their is more Glocks in use than anyother type period. So are all these various countries blind I ask? I don't think so. The Glock is well suited for police work and excellent as a CCW pistol, provided it fits your hand. It is also half the price of many of your model 1911 models. I am no stranger to most of those models, since I own several 1911 still to this day. My Glock pistols suit my needs to a big T!
Those test video's don't lie! H&K has one on their to show and market their products too, firing under water etc. So all those who are NA sayers to the abilities of the Glock over other types of pistols, are speaking with their heads in the sand, refusing to identify the true virtures of the GLOCK pistol.
Now I say this to MOGC or any other person, who is light headed concerning the virtues of the Glock pistol, are who refuse to believe the torture tests on a Glock. Now anytime you wish to challenge one of my glock pistols in such a test, please don't be hesitate and do "ring the bell", I'll be waiting to oblige you with open arms and my Glock.
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Tough Job: Torture Test a 1911 and Establish a World Record
Just how tough is Para�s PXT 1911? We asked that question of World Speed Shooting Champion Todd Jarrett, and sent him cases of ammunition to find out. Along with Shooting Gallery host, Michael Bane, we came up with the Ultimate Hot Gun Torture Test: to see how fast 1,000 rounds of .45 ACP could be poured non-stop through a Para PXT 1911. To warm up, we put a 1,000 round of 230-grain ball through the pistol. No problems. The next morning after cleaning the pistol, we started the Hot Gun Test. Jarrett chose some hot ammo, International�s Green Elite NT 155-grain frangible flat point round with a muzzle velocity of 1,150 feet per second.
With three people loading magazines, Jarrett started to shoot the new Para PXT 1911 SSP. The more he shot the hotter the pistol got. Barrel temperatures became so hot that the ramped, stainless steel match barrel turned a deep golden color. But the pistol never missed a beat. 10 minutes and 44 seconds after he started, Jarrett had put 1,000 rounds through the pistol establishing a NEW World Record on the range at Blackwater USA.
He let the pistol cool and then, using a Chip McCormick 10-round Power Mag, shot a group on a steel plate at 10 yards with all shots touching.
For the next several hours, the magazine loaders took turns shooting the SSP with both the ICC frangible ammo and standard white box 230-grain ball ammunition until 5,000 rounds had been shot. The tough pistol digested all of the ammo without complaint. We do not recommend that you torture your 1911 for 4,000 rounds without cleaning it. But if your 1911 is a Para PXT, it can take it.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
I was at the range one day with a guy I worked with that had both a glock 19 and a glock 23. Do you know that a glock 23 will run most of a magazine of 9mm. It would have probaly made the whole magazine but I noticed the split casings hitting the bench and thought he should stop.
The Glock pistol, has been subjected to many testing situations, that would put many other type pistols in the "YOU LOOSE" catagory simply put. This testing has been going on for years and many just seem to close their eyes to the reality of true facts!!! These facts have been documented
So show me the documentation. I'll be happy to review it all. Then prove to me that other pistols couldn't do the same.
I'm not going to take your word for it. I want to see the proof.
Yes, but only as a backup--Segal is a leathal weapon.
Wrong... Mel Gibson is the "Lethal Weapon" guy. LOL...
You guys can forget Tonk even acknowledging the possibility of problems with a Glock. He and I have been over this ground elsewhere before and he danced all around the mere thought of a Glock KB never once answering a direct question about it.
Dink, I understand what you are saying, but still that isn't the 1911's problem. That is the dummy behind the grip that needs a foot up his rear to get his act together. Bean counters and lawyers shouldn't be making decisions for street cops safety and equipment. I know that is reality, but that is also the reason the Glock probably has the highest rate of negligent/accidental discharge than any other weapon. Because dumbasses cannot remember a few safety rules like KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER - DON'T POINT THE MUZZLE AT ANYTHING YOU AREN'T WILLING TO DESTROY! And if you cannot remember that then you shouldn't be packing a firearm, you are a danger to yourself and innocent lives.
Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
It is a people problem. Alot of new guys have never fired a gun before entering the academy. My new guy has a four year degree but knows nothing about firearms and has no desire to learn.
There are a few departments that issue the 1911. From what I read they train alot with those guns with some qualifying monthly or every other month. That kind of dedication to firearms training is just not going to fly in most departments. Its to costly.
I got guys that been cops alot longer than I have that forget how to load a shotgun or AR between qualifications. Guns don't interest these guys and never will. I can't imagine with qualifying twice a year trying to get guys to remember to use a thumb safety. I just don't think the majority of police officers will get it.
Dink
This got me to thinking, I wonder if these are the LEOs who believe that "civilians" shouldn't have guns? Recently a local LEO instructor estimated it at about 50%. OTOH, most cops I have known who are "gun guys" are very comfortable with non-LEOs and guns. One told me that it's something of a generational thing with cops, the younger ones being more inclined to be anti.
Paul
Stupidity has its way, while its cousin, evil, runs rampant.
Paul I can only speak about the guys I work with and know but none of them are anti-gun. All believe people should be able to own and carry guns if they want to do so. The non-gun LEO's look at guns like I look at video games. Video games mean nothing to me and guns really mean nothing to them. I don't care who owns/plays video games there just not for me. Thats how they look at guns for the most part.
It would be really cool if Glock turned out a 1911 pattern pistol. Not for any built in reliability or advantages of polymer construction, but just to watch the conundrum this would produce in both warring camps. (The 1911er�s vs. the Glockenspielers).
I will be waiting on the sidelines with mischievous glee�
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
The Glock pistol, has been subjected to many testing situations, that would put many other type pistols in the "YOU LOOSE" catagory simply put. This testing has been going on for years and many just seem to close their eyes to the reality of true facts!!! These facts have been documented to say the least and are no big secret. To hammer someone who has spent the money to test this pistol and show those negetive people to the GLOCK pistols attributes, is once again a ride down a dead end street people. This pistol has proved all over the world and their is more Glocks in use than anyother type period. So are all these various countries blind I ask?
Okay, you apparently are aware of a wide range of �tests� where the Glock comes out on top. What about when the Glock doesn�t come out on top, are you aware of those? My point is simply that Glock has not won every last �test� it has been subjected to. Glock is an excellent pistol, but it�s not a super pistol and it doesn�t wear a cape.
P.S � Why is everyone impressed when a pistol fires under water? When was the last time you heard of a gunfight under water?
Mike Nelson (Lloyd Bridges) was in one on �Sea Hunt�. The bad guy shot at him under water with a .38 revolver. Mike was about 5-6 feet away, put out his hand and stopped those bullets cold.
I saw it on TV, so it must be real.
Robert Whats-his-name, the publisher of Soldier of Fortune magazine, apparently conducted an impromptu test to see if a 1911 .45 would function under water. In his case the test area was the pool of the motel where they were staying for the annual SOF convention, and the impetus for the test was a certain quantity of alcohol. According to reports, it worked.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
