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GaryVA Offline OP
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The Black Bear is half a pound lighter than expected. The standard listed weight from their prototype rifle is 7-pounds, but mine weighs in at 6 1/2 pounds with magazine box. Very pleasant surprise, the rifle appears closer to a Finnlight than to a Brown Bear. The balance and handiness is outstanding! It basically handles like a Finnlight with fixed sights. So far I'm pleased. I'll give it a shake down when I return from my trip.

Later smile

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Oh CHIT ...another one to add to the "I gotta have" list...guess I'll just have to make do with the heavy arsed CZ "Ahmellican" and it's elephant snot finish to work some more of it's one caliber for everything magic until the Recession is over! Stout loads of RL15 under the ancient 250gr Ballistic Tips work great on WTails...hope the load works the same or better in NAB's.
Ron


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dhg Offline
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Sakos are always lighter than their listed weight - ususally by some margin with the synthetic stocked versions. The finnlights are actually under the 6lb mark, and not much more than the Kimber montanas. The Sako synthetic stock is very light - only a touch more than the McMillan edge.


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Originally Posted by dhg
Sakos are always lighter than their listed weight - ususally by some margin with the synthetic stocked versions. The finnlights are actually under the 6lb mark, and not much more than the Kimber montanas. The Sako synthetic stock is very light - only a touch more than the McMillan edge.



Sakos do NOT have a rep for being lighter that their listed weights. Most of them are actually heavier, especially their wood stocked rifles.

And their synthetics stocks are schit compared to a hand laid up fiberglass stock like an Edge.. Basically, injection molded crap on a $1,500 rifle. Great.



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dhg Offline
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I wasn't saying the sako stock was as good as an edge stock; it is just an injection molded stock (personally, i am pretty happy with the best of the new injection molded stocks, anyway). I was saying they were about the same weight. The sako is probably the best of the injection molded stocks - and remember it is the stock shape that McMillan quite openly admits to copying for much of its own line. I thought the edge was carbonfibre, not fiberglass. I am suprised they can make a glass stock that weight.

Weigh any of the synthetic stocked 85s - they are way lighter than their listed weight, often by about half a pound.


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GaryVA Offline OP
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I see nothing wrong with the Black Bear ST stock, it's very stiff and utilitarian, the ergonomics are near perfect for me, and I expect it to be durable and accurate. I'd not want to switch for a laid up fiberglass stock because that would add unneeded weight with little to no gain in performance. I'd also be leery with using a benchrest constructed "egg shell" stock as this would be a weaker construction which would save little to no weight and would have no performance gains. If I manage to break this stock, I'd probably also manage to break an "egg shell" constructed stock.

Later smile


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Originally Posted by GaryVA
I see nothing wrong with the Black Bear ST stock, it's very stiff and utilitarian, the ergonomics are near perfect for me, and I expect it to be durable and accurate. I'd not want to switch for a laid up fiberglass stock because that would add unneeded weight with little to no gain in performance. I'd also be leery with using a benchrest constructed "egg shell" stock as this would be a weaker construction which would save little to no weight and would have no performance gains. If I manage to break this stock, I'd probably also manage to break an "egg shell" constructed stock.

Later smile


I am glad you like you rifle ,Gary, but those stocks are NOT full equal of a McMillan Edge stock in weight, stiffness OR strength.

To claim such is laughable. The Sako koolaid has made you drunk.





Last edited by jim62; 11/04/11.

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GaryVA Offline OP
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I'm glad you edited your original post and turned it down a notch, you were getting a bit ugly.

Do you actually believe that a benchrest construction "egg shell" graphite Edge is stronger than a solid fill??? You save weight over solid fill, but you lose strength which is why they break when used on bigger chamberings. In addition, do you truly think that by installing an Edge stock that this rifle will somehow shoot more accurately or kill more game???? Do you truly believe that this stock will break from shooting or handling afield?????

I'd wager that this Black Bear ST stock will shoot hunting loads with ample accuracy. I'd also wager that the stock will be durable with many years of dependable service. I already know that it is light, stiff, and has great ergonomics. I just do not see how installing an Edge at this point could add any utilitarian value to the rifle. I can see how a solid fill could add some strength, but the extra strength will be unneeded for performance and I don't want the added weight. An Edge is not a solid fill, it is an "egg shell" that is stiff but with limited strength due to its construction.

It almost sounds like you were beaten as a child with a synthetic stock. A day in the field hunting with a wood stocked blued rifle would do you much good, this would help clear your head from drinking too much Edge Koolaid smile

I'd relax, there are plenty of Finnlights the world over that work well with their "laughable" factory stocks.

Best smile


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i wish that i could get this guide gun gone so i can order a kodiak. Gary, I've been searching for scope mounts for them, wondering which you put on your bear? I'd like some detachable ones so i can utilize the iron sights if i wish.

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GaryVA Offline OP
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[Linked Image]


I'm using these, the Sako 1-pc Optilock Ringmounts. They are lower than the x-tra low 2-pc Optilocks, and are cleaner with less bulk. They require a Torx key to loosen, but Sako published that they are designed to be removed and replaced without loss of zero. They have a solid fit with a positive stop. I much prefer these over the bulkier 2-pc version.

[Linked Image]

I'll be running this scope, 1.1-4 power.

Good Luck smile


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Originally Posted by GaryVA
I'm glad you edited your original post and turned it down a notch, you were getting a bit ugly.

Do you actually believe that a benchrest construction "egg shell" graphite Edge is stronger than a solid fill??? You save weight over solid fill, but you lose strength which is why they break when used on bigger chamberings. In addition, do you truly think that by installing an Edge stock that this rifle will somehow shoot more accurately or kill more game???? Do you truly believe that this stock will break from shooting or handling afield?????

I'd wager that this Black Bear ST stock will shoot hunting loads with ample accuracy. I'd also wager that the stock will be durable with many years of dependable service. I already know that it is light, stiff, and has great ergonomics. I just do not see how installing an Edge at this point could add any utilitarian value to the rifle. I can see how a solid fill could add some strength, but the extra strength will be unneeded for performance and I don't want the added weight. An Edge is not a solid fill, it is an "egg shell" that is stiff but with limited strength due to its construction.

It almost sounds like you were beaten as a child with a synthetic stock. A day in the field hunting with a wood stocked blued rifle would do you much good, this would help clear your head from drinking too much Edge Koolaid smile

I'd relax, there are plenty of Finnlights the world over that work well with their "laughable" factory stocks.

Best smile


Whats getting "ugly" is your total LACK of intellectual dishonesty here...

Dude, when a $1,500 + Sako has a stock no better constructed than one on a $300 Marlin XS7, something is wrong.

And for the record, EDGE fill stocks have worked JUST FINE on a 9.3x62 ( which is NOT a magnum cartrdge).

If you REALLY believe that the milk jug stock on your overpriced Sako is better than a hand laid up Carbon fiber McMillan EDGE- then you'd better call McMillan and tell them.

You also better tell all those aircraft engineers that use carbon fiber to build advanced Jet aircraft frame components.

And ,of course tell the benchrest shooters that if they just used new Sakos with injection molded stocks they would have better BR rifle platforms.






Last edited by jim62; 11/04/11.

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GaryVA Offline OP
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You're having a meltdown. I have an Edge on my long action M70, they are good stocks but not worth having a total meltdown over. You need to relax.


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Originally Posted by GaryVA
You're having a meltdown. I have an Edge on my long action M70, they are good stocks but not worth having a total meltdown over. You need to relax.


Not having a meltdown. And I am relaxed. wink

I just think its sad when some Sako Koolaid drinker claims their milk jug stocks are something that they are NOT- like the full equivalent of a McMillan edge.

Its laughable and you are wrong to do it.


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Nice,Im liken it GaryVA.
(Comming from a guy that has one two many KoolAids in him)
Don't mean to hijack but
Phoneman,check out the Leupold QR bases for Sakos.I have a set and they are pretty slick.I think they would work best for what you want.

Last edited by bh444; 11/04/11.

Sorry,I drank the Sako-Aid.My opinion may be biased.
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Gary, that combination looks absolutely spectacular. That is probably the definition of a well-balanced, hard-hitting hunting rifle.

Jim, you don't need anymore koolaid. You need a nice camomille tea in a quite room in a nice comfy chair, a few deeep breaths and to relax, dude.


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Originally Posted by dhg
Gary, that combination looks absolutely spectacular. That is probably the definition of a well-balanced, hard-hitting hunting rifle.

Jim, you don't need anymore koolaid. You need a nice camomille tea in a quite room in a nice comfy chair, a few deeep breaths and to relax, dude.


I am sure a chick like you thinks drinking tea is a solution for swallowing big lies(among other things)..

Which explains why you would think an injection molded stock made from recycled Finnish milks jugs is the full structural equal of a McMillan Edge.

Go drink some more tea , Francis.. wink

Last edited by jim62; 11/04/11.

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No doubt, wouldn't it be nice to see Sako's w/McMs at the current price point......NOT holding my breath.

That said, Sako takes pride and is not going to put JUNK on the market. I don't get excited about Tupperware, yet a rifle is a tool in the end, and if accurate and functional, as historically all Sako's have done very well in those regards.....I have no big beef.

If you want a sub MOA guaranteed rifle, get a Howa or Vanguard and drop it in a McM, for 1K. Afterall, they copied Sako's design and are well made, yet if you want a REAL Sako, you get what you get and Sako gets the price the market will bear.

The quality workmanship and accuracy has tom come with some price tag.

I think I could REALLY like that rifle above if I get a trip to AK together. No doubt, if they could come in at half the 1695 they'd be all the betta!

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One more thing, a few years ago at SHOT, I talked to the folks at the McM booth re: Sako and the possibility of McM stocks, they said 'No go' so it's surely a 'bean counters' decision at corporate.......

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I just found out that talley makes em. I had talley quick release ones for the sakos. I have them on another rifle and really like them. And they are a whole lot cheaper than the optilock ones. I'm planning onputting a leupy 1.5-5 on mine.

Last edited by Phoneman; 11/04/11.
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I found the kodiaks for 1500 shipped. Figured that was pretty good

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