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Joined: Feb 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2007
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If GOD had wanted pistols to have a magazine disconnect.....he'd have told John Browning to put one in the 1911!!! Funny how there's one on the Browning Hi-Power  The Hi-Power was designed for the French and they required the mag safety. Their combat manual of arms was to remove the magazine and hand the pistol to a German - no sense in anyone getting hurt. Funny!! and probably true..............Hillbilly.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
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If GOD had wanted pistols to have a magazine disconnect.....he'd have told John Browning to put one in the 1911!!! So why does God want a grip safety on a handgun, and does this mean all my non-1911s are going to hell?
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 67,824 Likes: 11 |
magazine disconnects are an abomination.
IF they are a good feature on a cop gun, then let the cops buy their's that way, and leave the rest of the folks the hell alone.
Last edited by Mannlicher; 01/30/11.
Sam......
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I know of no cops that want them nor like them....That doesn't mean there aren't cops out there that do like them, I just don't know of any...
********
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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It has nothing to do with lawyers and everything to do with police departments.
The magazine disconnect saves lives as it allows an officer to disable the gun by dropping the magazine if, during a struggle, the officer begins to lose his gun. Massad Ayoob has documented a number of instances where this has happened and has an article in the most recent American Handgunner regarding it.
I don't mind the feature, and would buy a gun with it. I don't see how it affects practical use anyway because I would rather spend my time practicing magazine changes than wringing my hands about whether I can fire the last round with an empty mag at my feet. Well said. I completely agree.
μολὼν λαβέ
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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"It's a source of great pride, that when I google my name, I find book titles and not mug shots." Daniel C. Chamberlain
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
It has nothing to do with lawyers and everything to do with police departments.
The magazine disconnect saves lives as it allows an officer to disable the gun by dropping the magazine if, during a struggle, the officer begins to lose his gun. Massad Ayoob has documented a number of instances where this has happened and has an article in the most recent American Handgunner regarding it.
I don't mind the feature, and would buy a gun with it. I don't see how it affects practical use anyway because I would rather spend my time practicing magazine changes than wringing my hands about whether I can fire the last round with an empty mag at my feet. Well said. I completely agree. Let's say that you are in the process of changing mags when the perp rushes your position and you need to shoot before you get the fresh magazine inserted? Well the magazine disconnect just cost you your life. No, they are not for me.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
If GOD had wanted pistols to have a magazine disconnect.....he'd have told John Browning to put one in the 1911!!! So why does God want a grip safety on a handgun, and does this mean all my non-1911s are going to hell? Most likely
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Aug 2003
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Let's say that you are in the process of changing mags when the perp rushes your position and you need to shoot before you get the fresh magazine inserted? Well the magazine disconnect just cost you your life. No, they are not for me. I don't have the experience to offer a qualified opinion, but that seems more like picking a really bad time to change a magazine than a gun problem. Or maybe cause for debate over magazine capacity. If I figured a shootout was going to empty a magazine I want that to be a Hi-Power magazine, not a 1911 magazine.
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
Let's say that you are in the process of changing mags when the perp rushes your position and you need to shoot before you get the fresh magazine inserted? Well the magazine disconnect just cost you your life. No, they are not for me. I don't have the experience to offer a qualified opinion, but that seems more like picking a really bad time to change a magazine than a gun problem. Or maybe cause for debate over magazine capacity. If I figured a shootout was going to empty a magazine I want that to be a Hi-Power magazine, not a 1911 magazine. In the famous FBI shoot out in Miami in 86 Agent Dove and Grogan were using S&W M-39's with 13 or 14 round Magazines and they emptied both mags. One should change mags when one feels that the opportunity has arrived, but that does not mean that the window of opportunity will not close before the change has been completed. Shoot out are kaotic and fast paced with split second decisions being the norm. No one knows how many rounds may be needed before a threat is neutralized until after the fact The weapon take away scenario is always recited as an advantage of the magazine disconnect, but the fact that the round in the chamber can not be fired without the magazine inserted can be just as fatal in a different scenario
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2001
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I've always had the ones on mine disconnected. I absolutely will not have such a gun. Loose the magazine and you've got a lighter club. I've been in fights where I had the only working gun due to this. NO WAY, NO HOW. E
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
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IIRC the idea was to stop negligent discharges, when people foolishly dropped the magazine, and then didn't bother or know to clear the chamber, too.
I also dislike them. I suspect this is the real reason they were put in, not due to a purposeful design specification to allow a weapon to be disabled when it is about to be taken away. Lots and lots and lot of folks think if you remove the magazine the gun is "empty". One officer, after training with one of the new DA wonder nines, thought that to shoot it you just inserted the magazine into an empty gun and pulled the trigger. The concept of "rounds in the magazine" versus "round in the chamber" was completely lost on him. They are a design feature for people who aren't all that familiar with their firearm. Kind of like cars not allowing you to change gears out of park without having the brake depressed.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery.
Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
Joined: Jan 2011
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If GOD had wanted pistols to have a magazine disconnect.....he'd have told John Browning to put one in the 1911!!! Funny how there's one on the Browning Hi-Power The Hi-Power was designed for the French and they required the mag safety. Their combat manual of arms was to remove the magazine and hand the pistol to a German - no sense in anyone getting hurt. Now THAT is funny.
"Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one" -Geffray Mynshul
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,550
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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In the famous FBI shoot out in Miami in 86 Agent Dove and Grogan were using S&W M-39's with 13 or 14 round Magazines and they emptied both mags. You guys know a lot more about the Miami shootout than I do, but S&W M39's are 8-round single stacks. My own reason for some preference for not having a mag safety is flat out losing the magazine. Say I'm woods bumming and notice an empty mag well - oops. Hmmm, maybe if I jam a stick or a rock in there just right...
Forgive me my nonsense, as I also forgive the nonsense of those that think they talk sense.
Robert Frost
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
In the famous FBI shoot out in Miami in 86 Agent Dove and Grogan were using S&W M-39's with 13 or 14 round Magazines and they emptied both mags. You guys know a lot more about the Miami shootout than I do, but S&W M39's are 8-round single stacks. My own reason for some preference for not having a mag safety is flat out losing the magazine. Say I'm woods bumming and notice an empty mag well - oops. Hmmm, maybe if I jam a stick or a rock in there just right... My bad.... Dove: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (20 rounds fired).
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,997 Likes: 8 |
[McNeill: S&W M19-3 .357 Magnum revolver, 2-inch barrel (6 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Mireles: Remington M870 12 gauge shotgun (5 rounds 2 3/4 inch 00 buckshot fired),
.357 Magnum revolver (make & model unknown), (6 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Grogan: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (9 rounds fired).
Dove: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (20 rounds fired).
Risner: S&W M459 9mm automatic pistol (13-14 rounds fired?),
S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver (1 round .38 Special +P fired).
Orrantia: S&W (model unknown) .357 Magnum revolver, 4 inch barrel (12 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Hanlon: S&W (model unknown) .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel (5 rounds .38 Special +P fired).
Manauzzi: Apparently lost possession of his handgun during the vehicle collision and was unable to locate and recover it during the gunfight (0 rounds fired).
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Va..,
I go out of my way to buy handguns without that feature.
O
Too old to suffer fools
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,762
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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magazine disconnects are an abomination.
IF they are a good feature on a cop gun, then let the cops buy their's that way, and leave the rest of the folks the hell alone. Very well said...........I agree 100%.............Hillbilly.
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Regular
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Don't like em. I had mine taken out of my Hi-Power.
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