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The only thing I would be worried about thinning the recoil lug would be the bolt nose clearance and front of lug to barrel clearances. When he shaves that amount off the recoil jug he is moving 3 pretty close tolerence measurements. Had I chambered that rifle ne would not be able to close his bolt after removing just .005. I have headspaced barrels using my surface grinder to thin the recoi lugs, but always checked the other clearances as well.
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I have never taken a barrel off a Rem. 700, nor have I ever installed one. I can understand how shortening the recoil lug would lessen headspace.
What I don't understand is where the barrel and receiver ring threads end so the barrel can be turned a bit deeper into the receiver.
I also don't know how much space is between the bolt nose and the recess cut into the barrel. Would not the front of the bolt contact the rear of the barrel is the barrel was screwed in very far.
As far a contacting the gunsmith that did the work, after waiting 2 years and he still messed it up, I wouldn't want anything more to do with him, even if he agreed to correct it for free. I just wouldn't trust him to do it right the second time.
The fired cartridges do not look, going by the pictures, that there is any web stretching. That mark looks to me like the junction where the body of the case expanded against the chamber, in front of the web. The web area did not expand where the case is thicker. This is common with rimless cases loaded to normal pressure.
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Campfire Outfitter
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You are right Eddybo.
Butch
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Absolutely right EddyBo.
I wonder what the bolt nose to barrel clearance started out at if .010" could be taken from the recoil lug and the bolt nose still doesn't contact the barrel recess!
Sounds like the gunsmith had other things on his mind the day he chambered this barrel.
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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I wonder if maybe he slipped the wrong lug on the barrel, would explain a lot. I usually end up taking .003 or so to square up factory lugs when I use them. He may have swapped one he had squared on a surface grinder for one that was not squared. I also got to wondering if the guy used a .280 go gauge instead of a .280 -.004 go gauge.
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Another thing to consider is that there could be something wrong with the loading dies. I have had to send in a set of dies before and I have another set that needs to go back, but I can live with the problem for now. At any rate if these things interest you grab a copy of the NRA Gunsmithing Guide. Mine was published in 1982 but Mausers have not changed much since then.  whelennut
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Campfire Ranger
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I was thinking the same thing about the recoil lug.
I don't understand your last sentence though.
As far as I can tell this is not a .280 Ackley Improved but is a regular .280 Rem.
If this is right then the regular .280 Rem GO gauge would be the one to use. If it were a AI chamber then the GO gauge would need to be the .280 Rem GO gauge -.004 and the regular .280 Rem GO would become the Ackley NO GO.
Am I missing something here?
The Chosin Few November to December 1950, Korea.
I'm not one of the Chosin Few but no more remarkable group of Americans ever existed.
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Your are right I did not pay enough attention or just assumed ackley I just have ackley on the brain.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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The rifle should have been sent back to the smith in the same condition received. No self made repairs unless you have a lathe and know what you are doing. I believe the recoil lug should have been left alone and the barrel tenon faced off one thread and the recoil lug shoulder re-cut and the barrel screwed back on . If the bolt wouldn't close after this procedure then the bolt nose recess re-cut a little deeper. You should have let the guy who built the rifle correct the problem . Sending it back couldn't have cost more than you payed for for a barrel vice , wrench and head-space gauge. I just don't believe you could sand .010 off the lug by hand and keep it square to the shoulder unless you where just dam lucky.
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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It must have been a lot of fun to hand sand .010"! I wonder how long that would take?
I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Long dam time a lot of sand paper
A Doe walks out of the woods today and says, that is the last time I'm going to do that for Two Bucks.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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to all the guy's out there I must have been dam lucky, this guy doesn't use aftermarket lug's for the price he charges he is too cheap, he grinds them supposedly and then reuses them, and as far as their not being enough room to thread the barrel in after the removal of material on the lug, it took about 20 minutes to remove the 10 thous. , the lug is at .186 right now as I mic it just yesturday and it's consistant throughout the lug top/ bottom/ side's, I got lucky, but when I started this I could place 2 pieces of blue masking tape and a piece of scotch tape on the back of a go gauge, of the original unaltered lug and close the bolt and it wasn't a crush fit, listen I don't have a lathe or anything that could alter this rifle other than a piece of sandpaper, right now as it sit's I have been able to screw the barrel in as far as to almost hide the 280 rem. stamp mark on the barrel and the go gauge still works/ and the bolt closes, and right now I am still able to load rounds and fire without issue, brass still look's good post firing , no primer issue's for pressure sign's and I running 53 grn.s IMR 4831 out of it, that's 90% case load, upper moderate load, I can take new unfired case and run it through this thing like shyte through a goose , no crush fit, no resistance, it's just deep, and the brass picture's show it , I put 20 rounds through it tonight, you know alot of you guy's churp up and say I should have sent it back to him and never touch it, but how many time's do I give this guy a chance these rifle's have been back there now 3 time's already for screw up's on his part, the 1st a burr in my wife's gun all the way around the chamber just below the shoulder, that you could feel when you ran your finger nail over it, and at that time he told me he would fix it, I expressed to him at that time that I was hoping for a min. spec chamber and that maybe a quick fix might not be the answer, this was for my wife's 260, a nice tactical rig for long range fun/ hunt stuff, and then it come's back to me well long chambered, it's cases look the same as the 280's web stretch, I know because I have another built by a second smith and his cases don't have that and this rifle and mine came home on different month's if you will not together, the other issue is I originally ordered the 280 in a rem. mag. barrel contour , well guess what he send's me a #2 fluted instead, I take that one and go on a hunt with it after waiting over a year, when I got home from the hunt I called him and expressed my discontent with this barrel, because he said if i am not happy with it he would make it right, and I have to say he was a man of his word and did get me the barrel I wanted, but then he went and deep chamber it and that is where we are at now !! all in all this took and is still taking the better part of 2 1/2 year's, can you feel my pain brother, I only hope no one out their in rifle land ever has to deal with kind of chit..... oh and one last thing, he actually encouraged me to buy a wrench and vise throughtout our long line of communication's , I kid you not, this should have been my first sign eh ! I guess he thought I would need it later, Dam I missed that one . No chit he really did, you know he seeed like a nice enough guy, I don't get it , we would talk on the phone for 20 minutes easy , multiple time's, I really didn't see anything like this coming, I was extremely patient, call every 3 or 4 month's to say hello , he kept telling me the barrel's were unavailable, no barrel's, heck I got 4 barrel's out of Norm and Ken at Brux in half the time this guy was able to get 2 out his supplier, by the way, the boy's at Brux are fantastic, can't say enough good about them Boy's and their barrel's shoot !!
Last edited by 338ak; 01/31/11.
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bea175 it took me 20 minutes and 2 peices of wet( blackstuff) sand paper and it was done on a flat surface, like my dinning room table, up here in alaska it's cold and sometime's you gotta move the shop into the house to get thing's done, you can't blame a guy for that, desperation is the mother of all invention, that's my cree !! I could have used desperate time's call for desperate measure's but that so cliche .
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to all the guy's out there I must have been dam lucky, this guy doesn't use aftermarket lug's for the price he charges he is too cheap, he grinds them supposedly and then reuses them, and as far as their not being enough room to thread the barrel in after the removal of material on the lug, it took about 20 minutes to remove the 10 thous. , the lug is at .186 right now as I mic it just yesturday and it's consistant throughout the lug top/ bottom/ side's, I got lucky, but when I started this I could place 2 pieces of blue masking tape and a piece of scotch tape on the back of a go gauge, of the original unaltered lug and close the bolt and it wasn't a crush fit, listen I don't have a lathe or anything that could alter this rifle other than a piece of sandpaper, right now as it sit's I have been able to screw the barrel in as far as to almost hide the 280 rem. stamp mark on the barrel and the go gauge still works/ and the bolt closes, and right now I am still able to load rounds and fire without issue, brass still look's good post firing , no primer issue's for pressure sign's and I running 53 grn.s IMR 4831 out of it, that's 90% case load, upper moderate load, I can take new unfired case and run it through this thing like shyte through a goose , no crush fit, no resistance, it's just deep, and the brass picture's show it , I put 20 rounds through it tonight, you know alot of you guy's churp up and say I should have sent it back to him and never touch it, but how many time's do I give this guy a chance these rifle's have been back there now 3 time's already for screw up's on his part, the 1st a burr in my wife's gun all the way around the chamber just below the shoulder, that you could feel when you ran your finger nail over it, and at that time he told me he would fix it, I expressed to him at that time that I was hoping for a min. spec chamber and that maybe a quick fix might not be the answer, this was for my wife's 260, a nice tactical rig for long range fun/ hunt stuff, and then it come's back to me well long chambered, it's cases look the same as the 280's web stretch, I know because I have another built by a second smith and his cases don't have that and this rifle and mine came home on different month's if you will not together, the other issue is I originally ordered the 280 in a rem. mag. barrel contour , well guess what he send's me a #2 fluted instead, I take that one and go on a hunt with it after waiting over a year, when I got home from the hunt I called him and expressed my discontent with this barrel, because he said if i am not happy with it he would make it right, and I have to say he was a man of his word and did get me the barrel I wanted, but then he went and deep chamber it and that is where we are at now !! all in all this took and is still taking the better part of 2 1/2 year's, can you feel my pain brother, I only hope no one out their in rifle land ever has to deal with kind of chit..... oh and one last thing, he actually encouraged me to buy a wrench and vise throughtout our long line of communication's , I kid you not, this should have been my first sign eh ! I guess he thought I would need it later, Dam I missed that one . No chit he really did, you know he seeed like a nice enough guy, I don't get it , we would talk on the phone for 20 minutes easy , multiple time's, I really didn't see anything like this coming, I was extremely patient, call every 3 or 4 month's to say hello , he kept telling me the barrel's were unavailable, no barrel's, heck I got 4 barrel's out of Norm and Ken at Brux in half the time this guy was able to get 2 out his supplier, by the way, the boy's at Brux are fantastic, can't say enough good about them Boy's and their barrel's shoot !! My concern is not headspace, but how much of the case is unsupported. Pull the bolt, measure from the front of the lugs to the front of the bolt nose. Pull the barrel back off the rifle and measure the depth of the bolt nose relief. Then with the bolt installed and fully in battery measure from the front of the lugs to the action face. Then with the recoil on the barrel measure from the recoil lug to the end of the barrel.
Last edited by EddyBo; 01/31/11.
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eddybo I will do this and get back to you, thank's,
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[quote=338ak] it took about 20 minutes to remove the 10 thous. , the lug is at .186 right now Who's lug are you using?
Lock, Stock and Barrel gunworks
SLC, Ut
USMC 69-73
"This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life."
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If your referring to recoil; lug it would be a stock remington that was sent with the gun and is now .186 thick from mod's , and the other demension's are #1front lug to bolt face .140 -- #2 front of barrel to front of recoil lug is .690 where it would touch the reciever #3 and from the front of bolt face where the firing pin is to the front of the bolt is .140 give or take 1or 2 tous. kind of hard getting those measurement's with just a pen head and a micrometer I think these are all that you wanted o.k. from front of action to front of bolt lug in battery is .635 I hope this help's Guy's my bad it took me a while to find the bolt nose relief and appears close to the .140 , give or take a couple thous. kind of hard getting this one with my limited tool's these # don't make sense do they ???, but that is what they measured, but how does .690 fit into .635 ??? what am I missing , oh teach me obey one I can see that the bolt recess and the bolt lug's mesh with the barrel bolt nose recess, that seem's to work , so then the ? is the other 2 # 's that I am a littl fuzzy with ? I can see that .140 seems to be a common denominator here between 3 essential components for strength, my other build's on 700 action's seem to have a little more like .150, I imagine this can be compensated for without issue?
Last edited by 338ak; 02/01/11.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Guy's my # 's add up to what is going on, if I thread the barrel in all the way to where it stop's against the action I get a recoil lug gap of .133 and if I back the barrel out to where a go gauge can fit inside the chamber and the bolt closes I get .183 and if I give 2 thous. each for clearance I am right there with my mod. lug .186 with 1 thous. of play, all I know is that with these # 's I am not getting the case stretch like before , I really think he deep throated this one so to speak, it's a shame, perhap's it was only 10 thous. of play in this thing, 10 thous. too much in my book, I got a lesson in chamber and action demension's though I guess that's worth something, if I see it again I 'l have an Idea of what may be causing it .. Thank's guy's let me know what you come up with, after thinking on this awhile if my # are correct and the chamber is 10 thous. out or too long with the initial lug then in order to correct this you either use a thinner lug or take 10 thous. off the barrel and the barrel shoulder to correct for headspace, I wonder if the .140 on the front of the bolt lug and barrel recess thru his #'s out of sinc, especially if .150 is the norm for the m700 that extra 10 thous. not acounted for would give us what I have, in other word's if their was another 10 thous. off the barrel recess and he chambered for the usual .150 , you have the additional 10, anyhow he still should have checked the chamber with a gauge , in this case a no go would have told him he was out. I think???
Last edited by 338ak; 02/01/11.
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If you're still unsure, and guessing, just send it to the guy you trust, have him do it right, and move on. Go shoot it with confidence when you get it back, and enjoy. Right now, you're rolling the dice, spinning in circles, and hoping.
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If your referring to recoil; lug it would be a stock remington that was sent with the gun and is now .186 thick from mod's , Unless Remington has changed their recoil lugs, the stock lug is .187 ish, so how do you get .010? All your numbers would be right, just maybe in the wrong sequence, say .001?
Lock, Stock and Barrel gunworks
SLC, Ut
USMC 69-73
"This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine. My rifle is my best friend, it is my life."
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